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Some Test Results - Wally World Bulk & Fiocchi Target Loads


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So my boy and I brought the bone-stock Saiga-12 out for some familiarization and to see how it patterns with typical target loads.  We're fortunate to have very nice gun club here that has three trap ranges and a skeet/sporting clays range.   We set up a patterning board at one of the unused ranges and tested various loads at 10, 20, and 30 yards.   Unfortunately the pictures I took of all the cardboard got accidently deleted (or never recorded - doh!) but I did write down my results, so I figured I'd share.

 

1999 year built gun with the 22.8" barrel (no threads,  no external choke).  The only modification I've done is to add a bullet button to make it California legal.   It is in its original "sporting" configuration

 

We ran about 50 rounds each of Walmart Federal Bulk target loads (3 dram eq, 1-1/8 oz, 8 shot, 1200 fps) and Walmart Winchester Universal bulk Target (3 dram eq, 1-1/8 oz, 7-1/2 shot), and the Fiocchi Quail & Dove Loads from Big 5.

 

We ran the Federal without a single mis-feed or FTE in 50 rounds

 

The Winchester had a single FTE, but that was in a mixed mag where it transitioned to the last 2 shells which were Fiocchi.  I blame the Fiocchi as the culprit, since I think the soft casings deform as they try to transition up into the chamber.  Though the spent Winchester was still stuck on the extractor when cleared it.

 

The Fiocchi failed to feed about 1 in 8 times on average. 

 

Conclusion:  The Fiochhi will only be used in my pump shotguns, but both the Federal and Winchester cycled without any problems - I consider myself one of the "lucky ones" with a S12 that cycles cheap bulk target ammo with no problems right out of the box!

 

Patterning:

We only tested patterning between the Federal and Winchester bulk ammo (we only had so much cardboard...)

 

In general we found that the two performed very similarly until out to about 30 yards and beyond, where the Winchester seemed to spread a lot more and also was much less even.

 

At 10 yards, both were putting all the shot in a dense and uniform pattern of about 5" diameter for the Federal and about 4.5" for the Winchester.  Both consistently deposited the wadding in or near the center of the pattern (punching a big hole in the cardboard)

 

At 20 yards the Federal had uniform patterns of about 10" with  ~10% of the shot outside that area.  The Winchester consistently created a more oblong pattern of about 9" x 12" with  ~15% of the shot outside that area.

 

At 30 yards, the Federal consistently produced a pattern of about 12" x 14" with  ~15% of the shot outside that area.  The Winchester created a pattern of 16"x 18" with about 30% of the shot outside that area, spreading to about 26.

 

Conclusion:

For general goofing around, the Winchester seems like a good inexpensive bulk option for ammo, since it cycled well and had reasonably good patterns out to about 30 yards.  I've noticed that while the Federal tends to sell out or be unavailable at Walmart, the Winchester is usually available.   If I take the Saiga out to bust some clays, I'll definitely be using the Federals over either the Winchester or the Fiocchi rounds.   Next I'll try testing some higher-end game loads to see if they make much of a difference.

 

As an interesting side note, we also did some testing with my son's JC Higgins Model 20 that he inherited from his grandfather.  It has the "long range" choke on it, so I expected it to have much tighter patterns, especially out at 30 yards.   Interestingly, it actually produced slightly larger patterns, particularly at longer ranges.  This was a big surprise to me, since I've been told that the 22.8" barrel on the S-12 is somewhere between "Improved Cylinder" and "Skeet" in terms of the choke size. 

 

FWIW, there's an excellent article on patterning and analysis here:  http://www.shotgunsportsmagazine.com/archive/mar13/story0313.html  

I did NOT follow this level of rigor in my testing (it would have bored my 16 yo to death).  Instead he got to draw zombies for the next target while I counted pellet strikes, and I followed a "close enough" approach to most of the math involved.  smile.png

Edited by sbsyncro
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Thanks for the info. IMO it would be worthwhile to get that reamed for choke threads, preferably RemChoke.

So I'm guessing that would involve reaming out and threading the inside of the barrel?  Just out of curiosity, why the Rem-Choke rather than one of the others such as Win-Choke, True-Tube or Thin-Wall?  Based on the available assortment of choke tubes, I'm assuming?  thx

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Yes it is an internal ream and tap, and the reaming needs to be done guided by an internal mandril, as the o.d. of the barrels are not always truly concentric to bore....

 

Rem choke is most standard and uses a longer internal portion. That means a flush fit choke can be parallel- conical- parallel in design. Winchoke (AKA browning invector) is the next most popular. It uses less wall thickness, but it has a shorter internal portion, so if you want the ideal design, you have to use an extended type choke. A lot of the Saiga stuff has used winchokes because that allows more clearance with off center bores, and a shorter overall package for external adapter tubes like I have. 

 

I have the cobra/akbuilder winchoke external adapter, and it is good. However I can say there is at least 4-5x more choices of everything in remchoke, which means more variety and cheaper possibilities for getting individual chokes or kits. If they make a thing for Remchoke, then someone makes it for winchoke, but it may not be in stock or it may not be available in bargain prices. When I got a rifled choke about  3 of the likely ones I wanted to consider did not come in winchoke. I ended up with something similar, but I paid more than I could have for the remchoke and it took me a lot longer to track it down...

It is also unfortunately easy even if you are aware of the issue to mix up the various investor pattern chokes, the other winchester thread pattern and the mossberg compatible chokes with the incompatible mossberg chokes. Look up a winchoke disambiguation chart to see what I mean. I have gone to gun stores and seen a cheap junk bin with random used chokes and thought I would get a good deal a couple of times. Knowing what is supposed to work and not work, I have gotten the wrong things twice. Remchoke is Remchoke...

 

I would go for Remchoke.

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Don't get discouraged. This is an easier thing than you are thinking. Remember, "conversion" is a term here that leads to confusion. Legally speaking, what people mean by conversion is "getting the foreign made parts count to ten or lower". You can do that by a "restoration" (putting it back in proper pistol grip AK format), but you don't have to.

 

 

If all the parts on the gun are imported, it has 15 parts with pistol grip 14 parts without.... That's your starting point for compliance. That means you only need to make sure that you get rid of 4 foreign parts on the gun and you don't add a forreign pistol grip. Cali makes pistol grips a pain, and I would rather have fast mag changes than a pistol grip. So let's assume you are going to keep it sporter shaped...

 

For the conversion if you want to keep the original buttstock, you can get rid of two parts using a tapco trigger group and grinding off the actual trigger $26. (Or buying the dinzag trigger, which is that). Then minus 3 when you have US mags in gets you to 9 parts. But if you have a foreign mag over 5 rounds then you need to eliminate 2 other parts. the easy ones would be the forend and the 'bolt carrier extension' (the part that is a piston on a normal AK and is classed as an "operating rod" per the most recent BATFe letters). So get a nice intrafuse forend $45, and the puck $10 or the heavy hitter op rod $20, and you are good to go.

 

 

Or you could just replace the puck $10 , (-1 part) and it is "as imported" with 5 shot or less mags, so 922 r doesn't apply, with bigger mags, so long as you stick to US made, you are eliminating 3 more in the mag itself... 14-1-3=10                                10= compliant!

 

The puck is about $10 last I looked on any of the sponsor stores here. Tapco is fine or MD is fine. 

 

Then there is the option of eliminating 1 part for the stock and getting nice wood from ironwood....

 

 

The choke ream job should be around $75 last I checked. R&R might do it, and I know Evl and Jack Travers do it. I'd trust any of those guys not to muck it up. Or any shop that can mount the barreled action on a lathe by a mandril down the bore.

Edited by GunFun
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