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Just purchased my first saiga 12, what do I need to do first?


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I just ordered the IZ109 and the chaos Titan rail. I'm new to the saiga scene but I know I want the following..

 

Foregrip

Aftermarket stock

Slide fire stock

Shroud

Muzzle brake

20 round drum

12 round ak style magazine

 

Am I looking at a lot of fitting for these? Also what specifically designates the "conversion"? Is it just the trigger assembly? Also I read somewhere you can only have so many aftermarket parts, is that true? Like I said I'm new to this so please fill me in on what info I need to get this all done.

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Due to 922® you must have a certain number of US-made parts to use magazines over 5 rounds. Replacing parts like the stock, trigger group, gas puck, forend, etc. will put you in compliance. You can add as many aftermarket parts as you wish as long as 922® is followed.

 

First thing to do is run a couple boxes of birdshot and buckshot/slugs through to break it in. Make sure to change the gas selector, 1 for high power loads and 2 for light loads. Then you can work on conversion.

 

MD20 20-round drum is highly recommended over promag. CSSPECS steel 8 round stick mags are also recommended. SlideFire stock is expensive, both in price and ammo costs, not recommended to start out. Convert and use it some before springing for the SF.

Edited by Heartbreaker
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Like MM said,

 

Check function first, before you start bolting junk to it. Function issues will to some degree determine what you will need to do with it.

 

Look up the tech section on here and read, read, read. Most of the info is good some not so much.

 

Good luck and welcome.

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Replace the FCG and slick up the rails inside there is no downside and you know you are going down that road anyway. Before you install the hammer, profile it. Click the 'trigger job' link in my signature to see what that should look like. And as much as I like our vendors and custom builders, they all damn well know that their "drop-in" saiga  trigger kits have a hammer profile that causes problems. It's an easy fix, so just do it before even testing. You won't regret it.

 

Check for presence and openess of ports before your range trip too. Then you can know what to expect. Also if there is some crud in there you have a chance to clean it out and not waste the trip.

 

"Breaking in" with powerful ammo is a complete waste of money. If you want to shoot hot ammo, because it is fun, that's OK. Hand cycling the spring a bit while you smooth out the rails inside will do the same thing, and takes under a minute to do a hundred or so cycles. This is smarter than spending $60-100 on ammo, and will actually mean it is likely to run the ammo well. That's more fun than malfunctioning your way through your first hundred rounds.

 

Then go print this chart and use it to buy your ammo. It will save a lot of chasing your own tail. Purge your brain of worse than useless thinking like "high brass" and "low brass" those terms are really meaningless and cause more frustration....

 

Don't waste any money on stuff in the Pink Zone of Sadness!

post-17871-0-69479800-1446849995_thumb.jpg

 

 

Do your testing with only 3 dr eq loads (Red Rectangle). For your first range trip, I suggest also bringing some 3.25 dr eq stuff so you can still have fun for that range session if your gun turns out to need a little more refinement. So at least 1 box of Federal 1 1/8 oz 1200 FPS cheapo, and probably plan on mostly having a bunch of any thing else in 1 1/8 oz @1245 FPS or faster. 

 

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Shoot it first before you screw around with the internals. No sense in screwing any type of warranty you might have before knowing it will function. I still have one that had 1 round through it that has no gas holes at all. Waiting for a rainy winter day before I start any conversion on it.

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The above is good advice.. Just to add again. Test fire it as it comes. That will save you a LOT of time if something is wrong out of the box. Once you have a baseline of function move on to your modifications. Rail systems can cause function issues if installed incorrectly, so test before installing and then again after, before doing your next set of modifications.. Ten or so rounds of bird shot only costs a few bucks, and it will save a ton of guessing if you test between major modifications. Changing the trigger group can improve function if done correctly, and the opposite if done poorly, so again test before and after.

 

Also remember that stiffer hulls generally work better in box magazines..

Federal bulk shells within the correct power level are sold at wal-marts for a reasonable price. Remington game loads are also decent. Winchester AA hulls are also very good, again provided the loading has enough pressure to work with.

 

The bulk packs (100 round in a single box) of remington and Winchester are very soft hulls and are more prone to issues with box magazine shotguns.

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If you mess with it first you won't have a baseline to judge from. Remember to write down how far each different type of shot ejects so you can tell what each change has done. Somethings you want to change can mess with the cycle rate. Fore grips can if they impinge on the gas system. Fire control groups can if the hammer isn't profiled correctly or the trigger doesnt sit in the hole correctly. Scott metimes the mags and drums may be the problem. Do you still have the factory five round, its good to have it to set a baseline as well

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Thanks for all the tips.  I do plan on testing it out of the box before I do any mods, but I would like to get some non-mechanical mods on order such as the stock and rear pistol grip.  The foregrip will be mounted on the lower picatanny that comes on the chaos titan 

 

heres the chaos titan

 

TITAN_QUAD_RAIL.jpg

 

 

The stock and rear grip I like is from this site (http://www.saiga-12.com/proddetail.asp?prod=KLT004) and it says for "unmodified" saigas.  The only conversion I have read about is the FCG mod.  

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After you replace the fire control group you wont be able to use that setup. Replacing the trigger, etc moves it forward and makes room for pistol grip. You would be just wasting $80. Thats the mod they speak of. If you plan on the upgrades right away I wouldnt buy it. You can test fire it and have all the info you need in a day, and then be able to start swapping and polishing that night.

And save your old trigger, hammer etc because you will need them for reference and a backup for the EOTWAWKI, lol.

Edited by utahhandyman
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After you replace the fire control group you wont be able to use that setup. Replacing the trigger, etc moves it forward and makes room for pistol grip. You would be just wasting $80. Thats the mod they speak of. If you plan on the upgrades right away I wouldnt buy it. You can test fire it and have all the info you need in a day, and then be able to start swapping and polishing that night.

And save your old trigger, hammer etc because you will need them for reference and a backup for the EOTWAWKI, lol.

 

That's what I was looking for. So once I do the FCG conversion, will any AR style stock work then?

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Once you get it broken in, enjoy it. These guns are a blast to shoot when running right. I had to do some work on mine, but she runs like a well oiled Russian machine now and I love it. Like others have advised, shoot it in factory condition, then, if needed, start working . There are plenty of threads here that will tell you what you might want to do. Congrats.

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After you replace the fire control group you wont be able to use that setup. Replacing the trigger, etc moves it forward and makes room for pistol grip. You would be just wasting $80. Thats the mod they speak of. If you plan on the upgrades right away I wouldnt buy it. You can test fire it and have all the info you need in a day, and then be able to start swapping and polishing that night.

And save your old trigger, hammer etc because you will need them for reference and a backup for the EOTWAWKI, lol.

 

 

That's what I was looking for. So once I do the FCG conversion, will any AR style stock work then?

Either it will be a AR style stock made with an AK trunion style mount or you can buy a back plate that can be bolted or welded on that can use an AR buffer tube.once the trigger is moved tbere are lots of options from tons of vendors. Shop the vendors that support this forum first

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Also remember that if the shotgun is still dead stock while you are having much fun breaking it in with the aforementioned various shell types understand that legally you can not rack in a high cap mag.  I think the mag size legal limit is 5 rounds, but somebody before me also said 8.  Drum mags are out until you decide what to do with your new friend and start work on the 922r parts count.  I believe this forum has an excellent subsection regarding 922r specifics and many good tuning articles.  Have fun.

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Many good inputs here.

 

My thoughts when people ask.

 

1. Shoot it and make sure it runs. Fed bulk from wally world Is the std.

 

2. Definatey take the time and look at the conversion threads by many members here. Lots of good insight.

 

3. Css has some great vids on the process.

Edited by montec
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Helpful hint I learned myself from this forum from others before me.  Try to find Wally World bird shot with a least 3 drams equivalent powder.  3.25 drams is better.  But now days the velocity is given and not the amount of powder.

 

Drams on shotgun shells has not meant powder since the black powder days. That was an imprecise system of volumetric black powder measuring.  It is rather a measurement of muzzle energy. The modern system you see on boxes is Dram Equivalent.  If you measured smokeless powder this way you would have a grenade. Also, grains of one smokeless powder don't equal the same amount of power as grains of another.   

 

The dram equivalence system is kinda crazy and makes very little sense if you understand it well. However what it really does is allow muzzle energy to be put to a scale that gives people a sense of how much recoil a particular load would have. Fortunately for those of us with gas shotguns, the cyclic pressure impulse energy required to move a certain mass of shot to a certain velocity predictably relates to the energy required to move a piston of a fixed weight to a particular velocity.

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  • 2 weeks later...

https://youtu.be/ph4ER8Xc2CQ

 

You need the Kynshot recoil damper for adjustable AR stocks.

 

You'll thank me later :-)

 

Alan

 

Who are you trying to fool? That thing doesn't do dick. You can clearly see the SHARP recoil impulse into you shoulder (and the way your head snaps back) as that S12 still beats the piss out of you.

Edited by Mullet Man
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I found that "thing" works quite well. Without it, after shooting five or six of the 3" Federal 1 1/4 oz. magnum slugs, I'm done. It's no fun shooting any more than that. With the shot shock or Kynshot, OTOH, I recently fired 80 rounds of 3" Federal 1 1/4 oz. magnum slugs, and only quit because I was out of ammo. On another occasion, I fired 35 rounds. The damper makes one hell of a difference, so much so, I put them on all my Saigas, and my 870. Other than optics, they're one of the best accessories I've ever mounted on a firearm.

Edited by JohnnyE
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https://youtu.be/ph4ER8Xc2CQ

 

You need the Kynshot recoil damper for adjustable AR stocks.

 

You'll thank me later :-)

 

Alan

 

Who are you trying to fool? That thing doesn't do dick. You can clearly see the SHARP recoil impulse into you shoulder (and the way your head snaps back) as that S12 still beats the piss out of you.

 

 

 

Dude, you have no idea what you are talking about!!! LMAO!!!!!

 

There is a HUGE difference between FELT recoil and VISIBLE recoil. Until you have actually used the thing, please don't begin to think you know anything about it, thanks!

 

 

Noobs crack me up!!!!!! :-) lol

 

 

Alan

Edited by FL Thunder Stick
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You need the Kynshot recoil damper for adjustable AR stocks.

 

You'll thank me later :-)

 

Alan

Who are you trying to fool? That thing doesn't do dick. You can clearly see the SHARP recoil impulse into you shoulder (and the way your head snaps back) as that S12 still beats the piss out of you.

 

Dude, you have no idea what you are talking about!!! LMAO!!!!!

 

There is a HUGE difference between FELT recoil and VISIBLE recoil. Until you have actually used the thing, please don't begin to think you know anything about it, thanks!

 

 

Noobs crack me up!!!!!! :-) lol

 

 

Alan

Riight.

Because felt recoil isn't translated visually through your neck snapping around.

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You need the Kynshot recoil damper for adjustable AR stocks.

 

You'll thank me later :-)

 

Alan

Who are you trying to fool? That thing doesn't do dick. You can clearly see the SHARP recoil impulse into you shoulder (and the way your head snaps back) as that S12 still beats the piss out of you.

 

Dude, you have no idea what you are talking about!!! LMAO!!!!!

 

There is a HUGE difference between FELT recoil and VISIBLE recoil. Until you have actually used the thing, please don't begin to think you know anything about it, thanks!

 

 

Noobs crack me up!!!!!! :-) lol

 

 

Alan

Riight.

Because felt recoil isn't translated visually through your neck snapping around.

 

 

Stop embarrassing yourself, you have no idea what you are talking about unless you have actually tried it.

 

 

HAVE YOU????????????????

 

 

I doubt you have!!!!

 

 

Alan

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Stop embarrassing yourself, you have no idea what you are talking about unless you have actually tried it.

 

 

HAVE YOU????????????????

 

 

I doubt you have!!!!

 

 

Alan

 

 

No sir, I don't put gimmicks on my guns and then try to pawn them off as a good buy, because I spent money on it. Your video shows complete lack of recoil reduction by the fact that you look like a bobble head figure on the dash of a '72 El Camino. Yeah, lot's of recoil reduction in process there. *thumbsup*

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