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Dash cam footage of Chicago shoot....


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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix2N6_jLAgA

 

Skip to 5:20 mark

 

Can definitely see atleast one shot into the body (5:47) while he was already laying on the ground.

Officer charged with Murder yesterday. 16 shots fired. I don't recall if he was hit with all 16 or not.

Edited by Mullet Man
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He was armed with a knife(in his hand) and maybe the officers didn't want to get too close considering he had just punctured a cruisers tire and damaged a cruiser window. He was armed with a deadly weapon, had shown he was willing to use it, was behaving irrationally, and fleeing. He was also found to have pcp in his system. These officers responding have a responsibility to the rest of the public to disarm this criminal before he hurts someone.

Maybe there's more I have yet to read but from what I have read and seen so far these officers did a public service and did it right.

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Officer charged with Murder yesterday. 16 shots fired. I don't recall if he was hit with all 16 or not.

 

 

All 16 confirmed body shots from autopsy. He wont get first degree but they'll make an example of him. Biggest issue is even with assailant having a weapon and refusing orders no other officer on scene but that one fired any shots (AKA he was the racist one)

Edited by VR6Shooter
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Officer charged with Murder yesterday. 16 shots fired. I don't recall if he was hit with all 16 or not.

 

 

All 16 confirmed body shots from autopsy. He wont get first degree but they'll make an example of him. Biggest issue is even with assailant having a weapon and refusing orders no other officer on scene but that one fired any shots (AKA he was the racist one)

 

 

Yep, I just came across the autopsy diagram of the shots.

 

post-20217-0-22059100-1448460434_thumb.png

Edited by Mullet Man
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At common law, the fleeing felon rule permits the use of force, including deadly force, against an individual who is suspected of a felony and is in clear flight. Force may be used by the victim, bystanders, or police officers. According to David Caplan "Immediate stopping of the fleeing felon, whether actually or presumably dangerous, was deemed absolutely necessary for the security of the people in a free state, and for maintaining the "public security." ... " Indeed, it has been said that the social policy of the common law in this matter was not only to threaten dangerous felons and hence deter them, but was also to induce them to "surrender peaceably" if they dared commit inherently dangerous felonies, rather than allow them to "escape trial for their crimes."

 

I'm not certain of how accurate this is (wiki) but it sure makes alot of sense to me....

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At common law, the fleeing felon rule permits the use of force, including deadly force, against an individual who is suspected of a felony and is in clear flight. Force may be used by the victim, bystanders, or police officers. According to David Caplan "Immediate stopping of the fleeing felon, whether actually or presumably dangerous, was deemed absolutely necessary for the security of the people in a free state, and for maintaining the "public security." ... " Indeed, it has been said that the social policy of the common law in this matter was not only to threaten dangerous felons and hence deter them, but was also to induce them to "surrender peaceably" if they dared commit inherently dangerous felonies, rather than allow them to "escape trial for their crimes."

 

I'm not certain of how accurate this is (wiki) but it sure makes alot of sense to me....

 

 

My opinion here....

 

I don't see any mention of the word 'excessive'

 

Again, my opinion. Feel free to burn me at the stake.

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I'm not trying to burn you. I read that he had punctured a cruiser tire and damaged a cruiser window. I'm assuming that even in Illinois this is a felony and all over the planet is dangerous, irrational behavior. In my opinion someone like this should be stopped at any cost to themselves and at no risk to the officers or public.

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At SOME point, the perp is no longer a 'danger to the Officers safety', 16 shots definitly exceeds that point.

 

Absolutely. It certainly didn't take 16 shots to take him down. The video doesn't lie about that. Now if it took 16 shots to put him down on the ground in a subdued state (whether dead or incapacitated), then by all means, shoot until the threat is stopped.

Edited by Mullet Man
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Humans can be trained many ways to stop another human but I don't believe you can truly predict how you're actually going to react when confronted with the real thing until it happens. Every situition is different and adrenaline can do incredible things to everyone involved. At the point that the suspect refused to drop the weapon and yield those officers had to take it as an act of aggression and were then tasked to stop him. I watched this on a phone and can't clearly see his hands on the video or hear what's being said. Did he overreact? I don't know without more details. I do know that he had to be stopped and he was.

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Humans can be trained many ways to stop another human but I don't believe you can truly predict how you're actually going to react when confronted with the real thing until it happens. Every situition is different and adrenaline can do incredible things to everyone involved. At the point that the suspect refused to drop the weapon and yield those officers had to take it as an act of aggression and were then tasked to stop him. I watched this on a phone and can't clearly see his hands on the video or hear what's being said. Did he overreact? I don't know without more details. I do know that he had to be stopped and he was.

 

 

I agree. I just don't see the immediate threat, in the video.   

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If he's continuing to move he's a threat. And judging by the bounce in his step and way he brandished the knife he was more than willing. Those officers have no way of knowing that he only has a knife. Just because he's not waving it around like the knife doesn't mean he doesn't have a gun in his pocket. "Do not move!" Means exactly that, do not move a finger.

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Who knows what these officers were issued? Every department runs differently and issues equipment differently and these guys might not even have had tasers or bean bag rounds. In these situations you have to make a decision based on alot of factors very quickly. That suspect was energized and violent. Maybe they were forced with the decision to stop him in an open area like the street before he could reach the sidewalk and more businesses with people.

I'm not saying that this officer is innocent. But I'm also not going to assume that he's guilty either. The only facts I have provide me with knowledge that he was armed, violent, and had to be stopped quickly. The suspect continuing to move his hands may not seem like a big thing but with all the possible variables it is.

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The only people that could judge what should or should not be seen as a threat, were the ones on the scene.

 

any shots fired after the subject started falling, should not have been fired.

Those shots could be the difference between  a legitimate shoot and manslaughter.

The officer was charged, (over charged in my opinion) first degree would be pre planning the death.

 we will just have to see how it goes through the system.

 

The protests are just bullshit , the investigation was complete, the officer charged, the mayor kissing blm butt.

What else could they ask for

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IDK....I looked at the video and it would seem that they could have tazed him or something.  I am not going to pass judgement on the officer....I WASN'T THERE, and hopefully a truthful investigation will get to the truth of what happened.  The fact that he fired 16 shots doesn't help.  No matter how you look at it. 

 

Unfortunately, perception is 90% guilt these days....probably higher now. 

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Okay I've got several opinions about this:

 

1: Use of force was certainly justified. A knife under 21 feet is VERY DEADLY. A tazer is NOT equal to a knife, and it was clearly a LARGE knife. 

 

2: It would have an entirely different perception with majority of viewers had they shot when he was FACING them.. this in my opinion is questionable judgment on the officers part

 

3: He was hit after he hit the ground... that's BULLSHIT and while the first shot was legit the one on the ground was a unjustified. Pre-meditated doesn't seem likely. 

 

4: See how he "locked up" and fell stiff? That's the tale tell of somebody who's out. When he hit the ground he was trying to regain control of his extremities. Basically the shot to the head didn't kill him immediately but knocked him out.

 

5: Saying that only cops can criticize cops is how you end up with official oppression. Imagine extending that to all professions. You can't question a Dr without a PHD, or a politician without having held office....you get the idea.

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