Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 Actually the AR was designed to keep Stoner in a job, necessity being the mother of invention and all that. Originally in 308 it only found its place as 223 in full auto, the main issue with 308 being deemed unmanageable in that mode (M-14) also weight and production difficulties. It was never about single round accuracy, that was just a bonus of the design and shows little if any improvement over the M-14 in that area. Had it not been for JFK's number crunching whiz-kids it would have died right there. So from near its very beginnings FA was always the prime directive. It is perhaps irony that troops in Nam would learn to avoid FA use in many situations as the VC and NVA would concentrate fire on any position going FA. Lets not even talk about that cam... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breid1970 327 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 Something about folks referring to the Vietnam War as the Nam annoys me as much as folks who never served in Afghanistan calling it The Stan. Having served in both Iraq and Afghanistan I don't even refer to it that way. This entire thread seems to be getting derailed. The idea was a conceptual battle between which is better ..The M16 and its variants and the Ak's variants. Both are decent platforms and serve each niche well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scattergun10 125 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I don't get why alot of folks directly compare an M4/AR (5.56/.223) to a 7.62 AK. A more apples to apples comparison would be a 5.45 AK. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VR762Shooter 838 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 Something about folks referring to the Vietnam War as the Nam annoys me as much as folks who never served in Afghanistan calling it The Stan. Having served in both Iraq and Afghanistan I don't even refer to it that way. This entire thread seems to be getting derailed. The idea was a conceptual battle between which is better ..The M16 and its variants and the Ak's variants. Both are decent platforms and serve each niche well. That's just the thing, though. It isn't about the AR/AK and variants, it is 5.56 AR vs 7.62x39 AK. The comparison only shows one of each's variants and doesn't correctly correlate to an answer. You can't say you'd rather be shot by an AK because its round is not going to kill you as bad, when an AK in the variant that includes the round you specifically don't want to be killed by exists pretty prominently. If that article were to be submitted in a debate class it would fail on a lot of aspects. The writer has no idea wtf he is talking about, which is a lot to do with people not really knowing how to debate anymore and also a clear ignorance on both platforms 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scattergun10 125 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I have a steel target at 100 yds, its just mild steel and intended for shotgun slugs or pistol its 1/4" thick Several people not knowing its not AR500 have shot it with 223 and 762x39 The 762 makes a pretty nice dent The 223 punches perfect holes Smaller diameter bullet could possibly equate to less resistance from the steel? (just a guess) Also,the type of bullet for each caliber makes a big difference. That kind of reminds me of that YT video where they did a penetration test and shot trees with 4 different calibers.(.308,7.62x39,.223.,and 5.45x39) The 5.45 penetrated the best while the .308 was last, a head scratcher for sure. IMO, the 5.45 having the smallest diameter bullet of the 4 played a factor. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breid1970 327 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I stand by what I stated earlier. I just prefer the AK in all its glory and I don't fault those who prefer the AR. Both have excellent redeeming qualities. The original writer of the article i can't really comment on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 Something about folks referring to the Vietnam War as the Nam annoys me as much as folks who never served in Afghanistan calling it The Stan. Having served in both Iraq and Afghanistan I don't even refer to it that way. This entire thread seems to be getting derailed. The idea was a conceptual battle between which is better ..The M16 and its variants and the Ak's variants. Both are decent platforms and serve each niche well. What were people expecting some revelation about either after all the threads here and everywhere else over the years have worn it out? Given the mythic standing of both the AR and the AK it is impossible to separate either from their iconic ammo. Speaking of derailment; Funny thing is people were calling it Nam way back in the mid 60s, usage was pretty damned common both civilian and military. And its common usage is not "The Nam" it is simply "Nam". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breid1970 327 Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Something about folks referring to the Vietnam War as the Nam annoys me as much as folks who never served in Afghanistan calling it The Stan. Having served in both Iraq and Afghanistan I don't even refer to it that way. This entire thread seems to be getting derailed. The idea was a conceptual battle between which is better ..The M16 and its variants and the Ak's variants. Both are decent platforms and serve each niche well. What were people expecting some revelation about either after all the threads here and everywhere else over the years have worn it out? Given the mythic standing of both the AR and the AK it is impossible to separate either from their iconic ammo. Speaking of derailment; Funny thing is people were calling it Nam way back in the mid 60s, usage was pretty damned common both civilian and military. And its common usage is not "The Nam" it is simply "Nam". Im raising the bullshit flag on you here and now. Just because hippie fucks back in the day refereed to it as the nam doesn't make it any less disrespectful. Its no better then jackasses today who refer to Afghanistan as The Stan. If any of my uncles or any man or woman who served in Vietnam want to call it that who am I to judge. They served there. You did not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 (edited) You're getting all worked up over some meaningless dumb shit. Put your energy elsewhere. Edit; AK>M4...That is all. Edited December 29, 2015 by Mullet Man 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breid1970 327 Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 I agree, i did get a little worked up. We all see things differently, sometimes that's hard to accept. And I agree....AK>AR...to me at least. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Neither AK or AR, looks to have been a .40 or .45 that rolled into my shop today and thought it was interesting ( Christmas in St Louis). 2015 Cherokee. Hits are through the rear lift gate and one through the hood and ended up in the air box. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Anyone that is judging a firearms viability in the hands of civilians and is using FMJ as the base of that comparison, is truly missing the one major advantage civilians have over the military. We can buy poly tipped, soft point, hollow point, bonded rounds ect. I will say that 7.62x39 is a simpler projectile to stop with vests and plates. I have mild steel targets that can withstand 7.62x39 at 100 yards, they get dents but no more, I think they are 5/8 or 3/4 thick. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Neither AK or AR, looks to have been a .40 or .45 that rolled into my shop today and thought it was interesting ( Christmas in St Louis). 2015 Cherokee. Hits are through the rear lift gate and one through the hood and ended up in the air box. someone shot that car in your parking lot, or it came in that way? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted December 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 My business load in 7.62x39 is Hornady SST. This bullet was fired into water jugs from my M92 sbr. It exploded the first 2 jugs, split the 3rd jug and then continued to the 5th jug, shedding only one small piece in the 3rd jug. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 I have a steel target at 100 yds, its just mild steel and intended for shotgun slugs or pistol its 1/4" thick Several people not knowing its not AR500 have shot it with 223 and 762x39 The 762 makes a pretty nice dent The 223 punches perfect holes Similar experience with 3/8" mystery steel here. .223 HP took two hits about every other time to punch through alternating with clean holes in one hit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 AK can be repaired in a cave with the same tools that you fix a tractor with. AR not so much! 2 different tools with overlapping usefulness. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scattergun10 125 Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Neither AK or AR, looks to have been a .40 or .45 that rolled into my shop today and thought it was interesting ( Christmas in St Louis). 2015 Cherokee. Hits are through the rear lift gate and one through the hood and ended up in the air box. Those are some big holes,looks like .45. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scattergun10 125 Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 My business load in 7.62x39 is Hornady SST. This bullet was fired into water jugs from my M92 sbr. It exploded the first 2 jugs, split the 3rd jug and then continued to the 5th jug, shedding only one small piece in the 3rd jug. Nice! I have some of that as well.Very accurate,consistent ammo and the SST is an awesome bullet. Would make a great hog round. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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