WhiskeyMinion 300 Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) . Cool features, but count the other Chinese guns in your safe.... OK, 3 Norincos (MAK90, SKS-M, SKS) and a Type 53 and they all go bang like their Russian/Eastern European cousins. On that note I'm still not interested in a Chinese Saiga12 at this time. Edited March 3, 2016 by WhiskeyMinion 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) Thank you all. I think I still have a CAR receiver extension buffer tube lock ring wrench somewhere. Will have to look. About the only Parthian Shot I can deliver here is the dreaded thought that just came to my feeble minds eye ... is the name of the importing company. DDI. Yikes! Destructive Devices Incorporated. I hope the august benign BATFE doesn't take them literally. Thank you GunFun, SGL and everybody else. I also add up with the 922r removal as being ... 1) USA Butt stock group. 2) Pistol Grip. 3+4+5) USA high cap mags. 6) if you add a S12 fore end. The puck and FCG+housing we do not know yet. Edited March 3, 2016 by HB of CJ 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Nothing wrong with Chinese guns. I love both my Mak 90's. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saltydecimator 482 Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 lets see the fcg!!!!!!!!! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 lets see the fcg!!!!!!!!!X2 Break that SOB down and give us a good look. Some good close up macro shots. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sublimeon24s 17 Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 lets see the fcg!!!!!!!!!X2 Break that SOB down and give us a good look. Some good close up macro shots. Sorry, mines going back to DDI and im pressed for time, so this is my contribution for now. Hopefully someone will get you guys some better / detailed ones 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 Why is it going back? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sublimeon24s 17 Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) Why is it going back? Action binding on the first 1/2" of trying to charge the weapon. Sometimes it does not happen at all, sometimes you have to tug on it pretty decent for it to get past that point and then the rest of the pull is normal. It seems to be right at the point where the nub on the bolt hits the part in the receiver designed to rotate the bolt the rest of the way as its pulling back. Also, had a few rounds not eject the spent shells at all and completely lock up the action where you could not undo it by hand, needed a wack with a rubber mallet on the charging handle. Almost looked like the carrier was not riding the receiver rails correctly, which could have something to do with the bolt hangup mentioned above. Granted this was right out of the box at the FFL, and it was 2 3/4 dram birdshot. Went straight for the gold to experiement with the gas settings. DDI has been great to deal with, and will be getting a new one sent to me Edited March 4, 2016 by Sublimeon24s 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 Thank you. Does not bode well. Batting zero with one time at bat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heartbreaker 1,085 Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 Many guns have teething issues that must be worked out. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,218 Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 No. Unfortunately it sounds more like tolerance issues which add the play to bind. Hope that is not the case. I want this shotgun to succeed regardless of country of origin. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saltydecimator 482 Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) 76239 guns do the hang up on tip of hammer. not saying thats what you are experiencing, but...... to me, its kinda like these guns (saiga style shotguns, mainly 12s) really need to be all used, none new from factory. unless you are gonna safe queen it forever so it doesnt matter if it functions.... meaning, seller shoots it and determines that its not a POS... i mean, i lOOOOOOOOOOOVE the tinkering and the challenge etc, but not everyone does... sorry, late night ramblings . Cool features, but count the other Chinese guns in your safe.... OK, 3 Norincos (MAK90, SKS-M, SKS) and a Type 53 and they all go bang like their Russian/Eastern European cousins.On that note I'm still not interested in a Chinese Saiga12 at this time. ahhaa got me there. i guess i mean more like mass market style stuff? i dont really remember what i was getting at. maybe count the current production chinese guns? mainly maybe im only hating on the catamount.....whatever! hahahah and thanks for posting pics, really it doesnt look too bad in there. i assumed it woulda been a rats nest of bs, but looks pretty straight forward.... Edited March 4, 2016 by saltydecimator 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 I love this excellent forum. Did not mean to be negative. Just reflective. I am sure the sellers will make it right. My S12 at first did not run right. Gas port issues. Quickly and easily corrected. We also polished stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sublimeon24s 17 Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 I love this excellent forum. Did not mean to be negative. Just reflective. I am sure the sellers will make it right. My S12 at first did not run right. Gas port issues. Quickly and easily corrected. We also polished stuff. DDI is being awesome about it. UPS just picked this one up and DDI will be sending me a replacement they are going to look over head to toe before hand. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 That stinks that there were issues right out of the box like that. But really, our beloved saigas are no better. Took me a good while to get my first one running right. It wouldn't cycle squat, not even the heavy stuff. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 I would be interested in knowing how much experience DDI had with the Catamount Fury. If they didn't have much experience with it andd didn't run one hard enough to break it, they could be in for some ill surprises. From what I can see from this thing, it is much more like a Catamount Fury than a Vepr 12 or Saiga 12 (internally and structurally). They can say what they want about any relation of the two, but that is how I see it. This thing looks like a revamped Cat with more appropriate springs in it and a different FCG in it, not a totally new design. I can say with confidence that, at least from what I have seen of Century's efforts, Century was not addressing the issues with the Catamount Fury adequately, they were merely addressing the symptoms. I broke one, identified all of the issues, corrected the issues, and offered to help Century with a warranty procedure on them. I never got a reply. I really just wanted to see the Catamount become a worthy option for AK based shotgun. It can be, just like this one can. I hope they dig deep and get their heads wrapped around what they need. I am glad DDI is offering these, but the unveil is not looking good, so far. Maybe I can get my hands on one and see for myself what might be the problem/problems. I have a feeling those issues are very similar to what is wrong with the Cats. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SGL 530 Posted March 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 The owner of DDI (David Fillers) seems to be genuinely interested in bringing good products to the market. It may be worth contacting him to see if he would be interested in tapping into your expertise. david.fillers@ddiarms.com 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sublimeon24s 17 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) I would be interested in knowing how much experience DDI had with the Catamount Fury. If they didn't have much experience with it andd didn't run one hard enough to break it, they could be in for some ill surprises. From what I can see from this thing, it is much more like a Catamount Fury than a Vepr 12 or Saiga 12 (internally and structurally). They can say what they want about any relation of the two, but that is how I see it. This thing looks like a revamped Cat with more appropriate springs in it and a different FCG in it, not a totally new design. I can say with confidence that, at least from what I have seen of Century's efforts, Century was not addressing the issues with the Catamount Fury adequately, they were merely addressing the symptoms. I broke one, identified all of the issues, corrected the issues, and offered to help Century with a warranty procedure on them. I never got a reply. I really just wanted to see the Catamount become a worthy option for AK based shotgun. It can be, just like this one can. I hope they dig deep and get their heads wrapped around what they need. I am glad DDI is offering these, but the unveil is not looking good, so far. Maybe I can get my hands on one and see for myself what might be the problem/problems. I have a feeling those issues are very similar to what is wrong with the Cats. Besides what I have mentioned about mine, have you heard of issues elsewhere on these DDI-12's? I got to say, I am getting nervous / worried that besides bigshooterist, there are NO other reviews posted by MAC, AKOU, or anyone else that has them in hand for testing. Atlantic firearms has not even listed them on their site yet, and they received theirs 2 weeks ago when other distributors did. There only comment in the thread on akfiles was something a long the lines of that unlike other vendors, they thoroughly test the product to make sure its good to go before they list it. You would think they wanted to list it right away to get in on the initial sales like the other retailers, unless they dont give it a thumbs up. Its almost like nobody wants to jump out and say anything negative, if there is anything negative they want to say, because they like / respect DDI and the relationship they have with them. I am hoping that is not the case and people are just taking their time before they release anything. Time will tell when I receive the replacement, their customer service / communication with me regarding the issues I had has been great Edited March 5, 2016 by Sublimeon24s 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vance665 225 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Im glad I didn't jump on these. Vepr12 for $100 more looks pretty good right now. Although I would have to spend another $500 on csspec mags. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sublimeon24s 17 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) Im glad I didn't jump on these. Vepr12 for $100 more looks pretty good right now. Although I would have to spend another $500 on csspec mags. I might just list my NIB replacement for sale locally and try to find an original fixed stock VEPR 12 that takes regular AK stocks or stock adapters since I already bought a buffer tube, CTR stock, limbsaver pad, etc EDIT: screw that, im taking it straight to the range! lol I think this 12ga has potential, we will see Edited March 5, 2016 by Sublimeon24s 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saltydecimator 482 Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I broke one, identified all of the issues, corrected the issues, and offered to help Century with a warranty procedure on them. I never got a reply. they went full retard, NEVER go full retard man!! hahah good on ya for trying though!! so many folks just wanna complain instead of being proactive... in life, in general, not crappin on the thread.... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I would be interested in knowing how much experience DDI had with the Catamount Fury. If they didn't have much experience with it andd didn't run one hard enough to break it, they could be in for some ill surprises. From what I can see from this thing, it is much more like a Catamount Fury than a Vepr 12 or Saiga 12 (internally and structurally). They can say what they want about any relation of the two, but that is how I see it. This thing looks like a revamped Cat with more appropriate springs in it and a different FCG in it, not a totally new design. I can say with confidence that, at least from what I have seen of Century's efforts, Century was not addressing the issues with the Catamount Fury adequately, they were merely addressing the symptoms. I broke one, identified all of the issues, corrected the issues, and offered to help Century with a warranty procedure on them. I never got a reply. I really just wanted to see the Catamount become a worthy option for AK based shotgun. It can be, just like this one can. I hope they dig deep and get their heads wrapped around what they need. I am glad DDI is offering these, but the unveil is not looking good, so far. Maybe I can get my hands on one and see for myself what might be the problem/problems. I have a feeling those issues are very similar to what is wrong with the Cats. Besides what I have mentioned about mine, have you heard of issues elsewhere on these DDI-12's? I got to say, I am getting nervous / worried that besides bigshooterist, there are NO other reviews posted by MAC, AKOU, or anyone else that has them in hand for testing. Atlantic firearms has not even listed them on their site yet, and they received theirs 2 weeks ago when other distributors did. There only comment in the thread on akfiles was something a long the lines of that unlike other vendors, they thoroughly test the product to make sure its good to go before they list it. You would think they wanted to list it right away to get in on the initial sales like the other retailers, unless they dont give it a thumbs up. Its almost like nobody wants to jump out and say anything negative, if there is anything negative they want to say, because they like / respect DDI and the relationship they have with them. I am hoping that is not the case and people are just taking their time before they release anything. Time will tell when I receive the replacement, their customer service / communication with me regarding the issues I had has been great I have no direct experience with the DDI shotguns. Fire some 3" loads in it and let me know if issues arise as a result of it. At that point, I may reach out to DDI and ask them if they would like some help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I broke one, identified all of the issues, corrected the issues, and offered to help Century with a warranty procedure on them. I never got a reply. they went full retard, NEVER go full retard man!! hahah good on ya for trying though!! so many folks just wanna complain instead of being proactive... in life, in general, not crappin on the thread.... ALG did it too. I offered to send them a AKT that I modified for use in Saiga 12 and Vepr 12 to copy or to help them with development of a shotgun version, but never so much as got a reply. Twice I attempted with no reply. I called and they said no thanks they had abandoned the project. Really, take a look at what I have, test it, make a drawing/file of it, and produce it. If people were offering me R&D, etc on their dime and on a silver platter at no charge, I would at least have a look at what they are doing and make a decision on whether or not to employ their ideas or not. So, we don't have a proper drop-in shotgun version of the AKT at this point, we have a minimally modified rifle version that still needs work. I wish I could say I am surprised. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SGL 530 Posted March 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) This was just posted over on another forum. Sounds like good news for compliance and tuning... "I've replaced both the puck and gas adjustment plug, both US made for the Saiga 12 from carolina shooters. Both fit perfectly but I have yet to go to the range to see if they work without issues. Haven't tried the auto plug one." Edited March 7, 2016 by SGL 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 1) Butt stock assembly. 2) Pistol grip. 3, 4, 5) USA high cap mags. 6) S12 fore end. Now 7 and 8) Puck and regulator? Or does the regulator not count as a USA made 911r part? Just trying to add up stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 regulator aint on the list. Keep on the link. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 The owner of DDI (David Fillers) seems to be genuinely interested in bringing good products to the market. It may be worth contacting him to see if he would be interested in tapping into your expertise. david.fillers@ddiarms.com I contacted him. I will not share what he says, but will confirm whether he replies or not. Im glad I didn't jump on these. Vepr12 for $100 more looks pretty good right now. Although I would have to spend another $500 on csspec mags. I might just list my NIB replacement for sale locally and try to find an original fixed stock VEPR 12 that takes regular AK stocks or stock adapters since I already bought a buffer tube, CTR stock, limbsaver pad, etc EDIT: screw that, im taking it straight to the range! lol I think this 12ga has potential, we will see Fire some 3" loads with the replacement weapon and let me know if there is a negative change in the feel of the action or if it locks up at the rearmost travel of the action. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Yes, apparently this shotgun features and enclosed trigger pack so until we get good images of it, we don't know if it is easily replaced with a standard FCG. In the photo below, it looks like it has the right axis pin holes, so maybe it would be an easy swap after all, I'm just not sure... Saiga for comparison... Edit: Added S12 pic for comparison. An interesting difference in the DDI model is the placement of the ejector block rear rivet. My current understanding from talking with DDI is that the gun is very much a Chinese clone of the IZ-109, with additional features intended to improve the shooting experience for the end user. Whereas the original Saiga ejector block rivets are parallel, the rear ejector block rivet on the DDI 12 seems to occupy roughly the same position as the third axis pin on a full auto AK receiver. The presence of a third axis pin hole was recently behind a recall of IWI Galil Ace pistols. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/12/24/iwi-recalls-galil-ace-pistols-due-to-full-auto-design/ Given the placement of the receiver block rivets, I find myself wondering if the Chinese used an existing receiver pattern as the basis for this design rather than cloning the Saiga 12 receiver. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Third axis pin must be lower than the hammer for it to be in the right spot. The DDI shotgun lower rivet is inline with the hammer pin. Having a filled axis hole and having a riveted part occupying a similar area are not exactly the same thing.. Judging from the photos I have seen, the DDI shotgun does not share any parts or tooling with the Fury. I'd guess that they are made in different factories designed by different people. Having a working warranty is a selling point. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 The rep I talked to was pretty clear about the DDI 12 being from a different Chinese manufacturer. Almost bought one today just to get a first hand look. There may be yet another Chinese IZ-109 clone coming our way from yet another manufacturer. If so this market could get interesting very quickly. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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