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New AK Shotgun That Takes S12 Mags (DDI)

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Lawyer speak. Steel shot with a full choke is iffy at best, and a KB at worst - so Lawyer speak say no-no. You blow,we no pay.

 

Ugh. I hate it when people blame lawyers for things lawyers are not concerned about. Liability hinges on causation. If a condition cannot cause a problem, we don't care. Period. It isn't the lawyers. It's that the company either does not trust its customer or its product or both. You'll note that other companies sell guns without stupid warnings or awful triggers, etc. They have lawyers too. It is company management making those calls.

 

The steel shot thing is actually a legacy of old ammo which did not use shot cups and old shotguns with fixed chokes. Early steel shot was very hard on those. What it means now, is not really that the gun can't handle steel shot, but that they didn't bother to test it and prove it safe with loads designed to mimic those old steel loads which lacked shotcups. Also probably that they know they are using really soft easily marred steel.

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Do we have country of Mfg yet?

 

Here's a disappointing quote from DDI...

 

"China, and by the way, this is not a Fury or built by the same company that builds a Fury or Fury 2 or whatever the hell that POS is named."

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Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff. Confused panda is very confused about hype made over Chinese made AK clone.

 

Guess I can go buy my vepr now.

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Starting to slide off fence now...

Edited by Darth Saigus
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Ever hear if Primary Arms? I have their 5x prism scope and its awesome. Its also made in China.

 

The Chinese are perfectly capable of making high quality firearms. DDI is a great company and they stand behind their products.

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Sure and the iPhone is made in. China. And so was my iPhone competitor "one plus one" phone. Till its porcelain screen broke. $350 for giant kewl droid phone, $200 to replace porkcelsin screen that will shatter again. How many times do you shell out $200 before you decide to look somewhere else? Now the phone was 200% cheaper than iPhone 6 Plus. This thing is 66% the cost of v12? Naaaaaaaah count me out. Cool features, but count the other Chinese guns in your safe....

I'm super annoyed they went to China with this. Fluff me up then bring me down. O well

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I'd  of considered a DA P762 if they were possible to get direct in America.

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It would have to be imported with a perminatly attached (tack welded) AR pistol buffer and the arm brace already installed. It has a trunion that excepts AR buffer tubes and it can't ever have had a stock installed. Then as long as you keep it over 26.5" you would be good but I don't know if the brace adds to the length or not.

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Attaching a shotgun to your arm seems like a spectacularly bad idea, seeing as how your arm would take all the recoil. Cheeking the arm brace would also be bad, because the recoil would slam it into your shoulder which would: A. Hurt a lot; and B. Turn it into a SBS. So I fail to see how it would be any good.

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I've fired my foldy S12 like a pistol, with 3" mag max loads. NBD. The force just goes into pivoting your elbow a little.

 

Ditto for 6" serbu super shorty. Minor bruising on palms that I didn't even notice until the next day from that.

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Looks good to me. I like the furniture, left side charging handle, sights, etc. I would prefer it if if came with V12 mags instead though.

 

Can anyone tell if it takes the standard S12 gas plugs? The one on there doesn't look easy to turn without fingers. $599 in a "converted" configuration is a good number so long as the thing isn't made shoddily.

 

Good news for the cSSpecs guys for sure too. 

 

Mag fed shotguns can't be stopped with an executive order. They are here to stay.

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It looks similar to the CSS/DPH gas plug--multiple detents for different gas settings, but sticks out less than 1/4" from the gas block, like the factory Saiga plug.

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How is the fury coming along? We need as many options as we can get, ESPECIALLY a PREMIUM product.

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Here.  This is the thread about the shotgun.  The other thread is about the RIFLE.

 

Shotgun is Chinese.  Rifle is US Made.

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i wouldn't mind trying the DDI handguard on my Saiga 12 SBS. Looks kind of sexy compared to the stock Saiga 12 handguard. Anyone know if they're sold anyplace yet? (the handguard itself, not the whole shotgun)

Edited by KC913

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In regards to the shotcup and barrel issue,

 

(As far as scoring goes,)

 

In most cases the barrel hardness will mitigate the issue of (cheap bulk) shot cup penetration.

 

It's not even the steel shot that you need to worry about unless you have a pre steel shot barrel, or substandard (by American standards) current production one. The real threat is harder (heavier) the steel "improved" nontox shot.

 

Of course the fix for that is thicker shot cups, with different buffering.

 

If the barrel is properly chrome lined, scoring shouldn't be an issue at all.

 

However,

 

(Bulging)

 

This is a different story,

This can be a result of (or a combination of) barrel hardness, barrel lining (or the lack of), and more importantly the manner which the barrel was bored.

 

Currently, due to the use of steel shot, barrels are bored with very different cones (the narrowing/widening of the barrel in regards to the manipulation of the shot column) than they were pre steel. As was mentioned previously, this is because of "shot stacking" which is a fancy way of saying that the shot in the cup does not compress in the same manner as lead will.

 

When fired through the narrowing barrel, lead shot will compress and deform due to the softness of the lead. On the flip side, steel will compress until it runs into other shot in the wad. At this point there is nothing else for it to do except push back outwards.

 

as a result, if the constricting cone of the barrel was not gradual enough, the point at which it can no longer move forward at its current compacted state, the barrel is going give. Hopefully it just bulges or rings the barrel. Worst case scenario the barrel splits, peels, or bananas.

 

So in response, newer barrels are bored at larger diameters than they were pre steel. Steel shot chokes will tend to be 1 to 1.5 "sizes" larger than equivilant lead chokes.

 

The other factor that comes into play is velocity

 

Because of the lack of mass, steel shot tries to bridge the range/lethality gap with speed. Which means larger powder charges. Because they are designed to push lighter steel shot they dial them into to increase velocity, but maintain pressures that are considered safe.

 

When you combine shot stacking and velocity you are asking for trouble. The inability of the shot to pass through a specific section of the barrel as it is compressed means that the additional velocity is suddenly (in effect) pushing more mass, the mass of the barrel and the mass of the shot.

 

So the shot travels halfway down the barrel, at a fairly consistent velocity, propelled by the burning powder. Suddenly it is stopped, but the expanding gas is still pushing it. Bad news, now you are about t reach critical (unsafe) pressures. Its either going to build up to a pressure where the gas goes around the shot column (bulging) or, depending on the hard / brittleness of the barrel metal, KABOOM, blow out the sides of the barrel.

 

 

In the case of old classic guns (doubles usually) the hardness (read softness) of the steel, and the boring style of the barrel meant no hunting in non tox only areas. Which is why the top end non tox shot companies are now selling super soft sintered metal heavier and softer than lead

 

 

 

So for the tl/dr crowd, the steel shot game is a little more complex than shot cup construction.

Edited by snowulf

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Anyway, now that I typed out the masters paper on steel shot issues, back to what brought me here I the first place,

 

Left hand side charger, cool, will it fold? Who is likely to make an aftermarket folding handle?

 

Ar style safety, ok, solves some of the issues with the lever, creates new issues though,

 

Can you / how can you mount an optics side mount rail?

 

Will the safety selector interchange with any actual ar products? (Being able to use a 45 degree selector could be a go around for the side mount issue)

 

Does the new saftey style require a change to the sear geometry? (I'm suspicious that the saftey is an ak style saftey with and ar selector screwed or tack welded on the end)

 

Is it a straight or slant back, and what's the tang set up? The car stock would get pulled and replaced immediately (if possible)

 

 

The external threads are fine, it means that the threaded portion of the barrel attachments/chokes will strengthen the likely weak point of the barrel if there is a pressure issue. I'd much rather bulge or shatter a choke that I can just screw off than an actual portion of the barrel.

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...Is it a straight or slant back, and what's the tang set up? The car stock would get pulled and replaced immediately (if possible)

 

 

It has its own unique trunnion with a buffer tube coming off the back which means that you won't be able to us AK stocks.  The tube is milspec though, so you can use any AR stocks that you like.

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I think we are getting one in a week or so.. I'll post if someone else does not, some reports coming in seem to indicate they are ok..

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It turns out it is Chinese. This from the booth at the Shot Show.

 

No way of knowing what factory, but wouldn't be surprising if it is the Catamount factory.

Its not.

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vid is up on ddis facebook.... looks like poor shootin form or high recoil.  for $100 more bucks a russian vepr can be yours...

Edited by saltydecimator

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