topmaul 42 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 The Saiga I converted last weekend fails to eject almost every time. I was shooting cheap Remington low brass Walmart stuff, it just would not cycle it. I changed to gas port setting one no differance, I removed the buffer pad no differance. It seems to me that the extractor spring is too stiff? Any suggestions on how to fix this problem? I know this was a topic many times I was just wondering how people have solved it in the past. thanks John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ASSASSIN 1 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 The Saiga I converted last weekend fails to eject almost every time. I was shooting cheap Remington low brass Walmart stuff, it just would not cycle it. I changed to gas port setting one no differance, I removed the buffer pad no differance. It seems to me that the extractor spring is too stiff? Any suggestions on how to fix this problem? I know this was a topic many times I was just wondering how people have solved it in the past. thanks John Hi Whats the bolt throw like on firing? is it a full travel? I had this problem on my old spas12 , it would either trap the spent case between the bolt and chamber while trying to eject it or reload the spent case, turned out to be the ammo , i needed a minimum load of 32grams for reliable cycling. I also had the bolt return spring die on me soon after so that may have been compounding the bolt throw issue. I dont think the extractor claw spiring will be the problem as the case is ejected by a blade of steel that runs in a groove in the bolt carrier, sounds as though its related to the speed of the bolt throw or maybe dammaged or weak extractor claw/spring. just my 5c all the best assassin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tiny 2 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 The Saiga I converted last weekend fails to eject almost every time. I was shooting cheap Remington low brass Walmart stuff, it just would not cycle it. I changed to gas port setting one no differance, I removed the buffer pad no differance. It seems to me that the extractor spring is too stiff? Any suggestions on how to fix this problem? I know this was a topic many times I was just wondering how people have solved it in the past. thanks John Did you cut the barrel? If so did you open up the gas ports? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 (edited) That is a big negitive the barrel is 22 inches with a Full Choke!!!! I plan to shoot some buck shot and some other high brass ammo through it soon. To see if that works. My other Saiga has never had this problem, and shoots pretty much everything. I'm very interested in what people have done that have had the same problem that I'm experianceing. Edited February 18, 2006 by topmaul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kogashuko 17 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 I have the same problem with my benelli when I use the low brass walmart stuff. Did you get that 100round box? I ended up grabbing some of the gold color shells that said 1300fps and that worked. I have not gotten to try any of the stuff with my saiga yet though. I have a feeling the faster stuff is the way to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
piggsy 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Run a few boxes of 3" magnum loads through it. Break her in...loosen her up a little Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 I had that problem when I first got the s12 I have now. after a couple of cases of shells and the addition of a heavier stock, it worked until I cleaned it after the first 5-6000 rounds I put down it. then it started all over again. what I did was grease my forward gas tube plug real good, and unscrew the gas regulator plug a bit more than the manual suggests. I wouldnt recommend doing that, but hey, it worked for me. the gun will not bump fire the low brass now, but that problem, as well as the overall stovepiping is apparantly due to a loose gas rod. I did some tinkering around with it before I left for florida, and think I fixed that problem, but I wont know for sure until I can get back home and blow the living bejesus out of some targets for a few hours with it. Im pretty sure it was the root of my problems I was having, but the piston was ALWAYS loose, so I dont know. it aint loose NOW, thats for sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 FTE's and/or stovepiping is more common in the S-20's. Everything from "breaking it in" with heavy or mag rounds to changing springs, to increasing gas port sizes and numbers have been tried with varying levels of success. Some owners swear their shottie will digest just about anything with little or no tinkering while there are others who have removed the gas block and performed surgery (i.e. dinzag et. el.). One of the guys even called EAA and spoke with their gunsmith who apparently has the manners of a billygoat. The smith stated something to the effect "it is a fu**ing combat weapon requiring heavy loads". Setting aside his style of communication I think his message is on point. If you shoot Wally World stuff and low brass expect mixed to crappy performance. Use heavy field loads with high brass and magnums and performance will improve subtantially. So you can tinker all day with your Saiga or try better and more expensive ammo and actually get to shoot it without being frustrated out of your mind. Thems the choices. Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted February 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 My first S-12 will eat anything you put into it. Of course cheap wally-world ammo often has a few extra lightly loaded shells that couse problems but for the most part it has always shot fine. I plan to run some heavy shot throught it Eric likes buckshot so I guess I'll let him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gun papa 3 Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 (edited) My Saiga 12 gobbles up anything I have thrown at it. Wally World cheapstuff- yum. It's gas regulator is set on #1, the most restricted setting. Still the gun CHUGS even the 100rd box stuff. I think its a 2000 model with rail bead sight and 19 "bbl, threaded barrel and exterior cylinder choke, it has the hold open device which works great. I don't think its a candidate for conversion. It points too well, is quick to shoulder, it manuvers well and feels fomfortable when switched to the left shoulder. Don't want to mess with perfection. I hope the mag deals work out. I have a SAIGA to feed you know. papa Edited February 19, 2006 by gun papa Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Stove pipes can also be caused by a mag that needs to be "tweaked" to fit the magwell properly. Sometimes the front lug is too thick and needs to be filed. It may be too high in the reciever, and/or there may be 'flash' on the front of the mag body that forces the mag too far to the rear. Also, sometimes the rear lug may need to be filed to let the rear of the mag far enough into the reciever, or for propper engagement of the maglatch. G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted February 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 well we just got back form firing it today, went through six eight round mags 4 had Remington Express #4 shot and two mags of Remington # 7 1/2, Fullchoke fired the first round of #4 we had a stove pipe, he fired the rest of the mag with no problem they he fired a bird shot mag no problem, then he fired the other three mags with #4 and the last round with # 7 1/2 with out any more jams. I just guess it need braking in. Yesterday it failed to eject after every round. Today one hang up. I polished the claw a little and plan to shoot a bunch more, by the way the gun was on setting #1 during all the shooting so with cautious optimism I think the problem is solved. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 well we just got back form firing it today, went through six eight round mags 4 had Remington Express #4 shot and two mags of Remington # 7 1/2, Fullchoke fired the first round of #4 we had a stove pipe, he fired the rest of the mag with no problem they he fired a bird shot mag no problem, then he fired the other three mags with #4 and the last round with # 7 1/2 with out any more jams. I just guess it need braking in. Yesterday it failed to eject after every round. Today one hang up. I polished the claw a little and plan to shoot a bunch more, by the way the gun was on setting #1 during all the shooting so with cautious optimism I think the problem is solved. John, I don't remember if this is a NIB model. I didn't clean my first Saiga from the factory goo, it ran fine for a while, then started choking on one brand of shells. I had that "doh" moment, cleaned it up and it was good to go. If this is NIB, I'd say that shooting it will help it out. Also you might consider locking the bolt back during storage. Just get that spring to let up just a little. Ron recomments a polishing job on all surfaces that contact between the bottom of the bolt and the FCG. This is a firearm that serves in combat, but it is sold as a hunting firearm in Russia, so it SHOULD digest birdshot loads. That's why there are 2 settings. You should NOT have to run warm loads unless you want to, not to get it reliable. Watch the particulars on the cheap ammo. Some of that stuff is 1 oz loads (a standard load for a 16ga). That might cause a problem or two. Semi's don't like the light loads in general. Or, you can bring it to me, with 3K rounds and I will break it in for you .... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 well we just got back form firing it today, went through six eight round mags 4 had Remington Express #4 shot and two mags of Remington # 7 1/2, Fullchoke fired the first round of #4 we had a stove pipe, he fired the rest of the mag with no problem they he fired a bird shot mag no problem, then he fired the other three mags with #4 and the last round with # 7 1/2 with out any more jams. I just guess it need braking in. Yesterday it failed to eject after every round. Today one hang up. I polished the claw a little and plan to shoot a bunch more, by the way the gun was on setting #1 during all the shooting so with cautious optimism I think the problem is solved. John, I don't remember if this is a NIB model. I didn't clean my first Saiga from the factory goo, it ran fine for a while, then started choking on one brand of shells. I had that "doh" moment, cleaned it up and it was good to go. If this is NIB, I'd say that shooting it will help it out. Also you might consider locking the bolt back during storage. Just get that spring to let up just a little. Ron recomments a polishing job on all surfaces that contact between the bottom of the bolt and the FCG. This is a firearm that serves in combat, but it is sold as a hunting firearm in Russia, so it SHOULD digest birdshot loads. That's why there are 2 settings. You should NOT have to run warm loads unless you want to, not to get it reliable. Watch the particulars on the cheap ammo. Some of that stuff is 1 oz loads (a standard load for a 16ga). That might cause a problem or two. Semi's don't like the light loads in general. Or, you can bring it to me, with 3K rounds and I will break it in for you .... ANY excessive drag on the bolt carrier while the shotgun is cycling between shots will rob energy needed to eject the expended round and strip a fresh round from the magazine and properly chamber it. With the shotgun empty, slowly pull the bolt back and slowly ride it forward. Feel any drag? Does the bolt carrier actually stop as if there is a bolt-hold installed? If the answer is yes, then you need to find the source of resistance and either elimanate it or reduce it. Due to generous tolerances of AK's, some aftermarket FCG's will create problems especially after conversion to forward pistol grip style. RonSwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 When you replace the FCG with a tapco G-2 the "hump" on the front side of the hammer will rub the bottom of the carrier unless you grind it down to match the factory hammer and polish it. On some of my rifles it will even hold the bolt back if you ride it gently forward. This is not an issue with the rifles but as finicky as the shotties can be it would probably be a good idea, especially with the 20ga. I polished my rails, FCG, extractor,& bolt carrier and keep it all greased with white lithium. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted February 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Okay guys I think it still needs some break in and I might take it out this afternoon I only had one or two misfires yesterday, It seems to me that it is a problem with beening a little breaking more than something being wrong with it. The gun was not NIB it had been sitting on the rack at a gunshop up north in Michigan or Wisconsin, for a while someone posted it was there with the shops phone number and the rest is histroy. Greasing and polishing sounds like a great idea. The hammer was ground very close to the one that came with the gun. I'm very happy with the way the gun came out! Once we get the wood furniture from BRG3 (he has sent it) If UPS delivers today we may get it. We will post a picture as soon as we install it. Also I put a PG and a M-4 stock on my Saiga it looks like a mutt now! A Green and Black Mutt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Number your mags with a silver sharpie. That way if one jams you will know wich one. G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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