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JDeko

Tactical Nutshot

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When I first started shooting there were these targets I'd get that said that if you're shooting 9mm or stronger rounds a possible strategy might be to shoot an assailant in the groin as it could be argued that you are more likely to stop them by shattering their pelvis than to hit an instant kill spot where they would pass out before they could stab you/shoot you back.

 

This seems like a rather interesting idea but I'm not sure if it is practical or not.

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I'm wondering if handgun caliber rounds short of maybe .357 and larger would even be that reliable and being able to shatter an adult human pelvic bone or hip joint. Otherwise you're just shooting at a smaller, more awkward target than just aiming for the heart/lungs/diaphragm. 

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Sounds to me like some Liberal, man hating, Harley rider came up with that. "Shoot him in the dick!"

Something like this one, I'd imagine.

 

law-offices-charity-bar.jpg

 

...instead of this one.

fd07902fb401f998e90e1b180553991b.jpg

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I'm wondering if handgun caliber rounds short of maybe .357 and larger would even be that reliable and being able to shatter an adult human pelvic bone or hip joint. Otherwise you're just shooting at a smaller, more awkward target than just aiming for the heart/lungs/diaphragm. 

Its obvious you havent seen many if any bullet wounds

The big game hunters here should step up

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.357 is a guaranteed field proven man stopper. If it can crack an engine block on a 1970's v8 Oldsmobile, it can sure as shit shatter a pelvic bone.

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I figured a .357 could but the bottom floor this random target said was 9mm and that's what I'm more dubious of.

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Unless the target is wearing body armor, don't. His lawyer is going to call it malicious cruelty vs. self-defense.

 

But if he is wearing a vest and all you have is a pistol, it's either a headshot or the pelvis. And the pelvis is a bigger target.

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Compared with maximum 12 gage slug or some buck shot loads, the .357 is a wimp.  Even the .30 Carbine is better.  Hand guns by their characteristics are under powered.  The shooter needs to survive the discharge recoil.  The exceptions would be the monster magnums.

 

A cracked engine block is just that, a cracked engine block.  You would be amazed how many engines can and do run with substantial block damage.  To stop an engine immediately one must break the crank or knock out some vital part like the carb or distributor or other. 

 

As far as shooting for the pelvis, as a ex RN I have seen patients WALK into the ER room shot 12 times with a .22rf or with TWO cracked pelvises from a bad car crash.  Stoned.  Another stabbed dozens of times in the chest. The strikes missed the heart, aorta and spine.

 

It is easy to kill the human body slowly.  It is hard to immediately STOP a persons lethal aggressive actions against others.  A brain hit or a spinal cord break is about the only way it can be done.  Both small hard targets.  That is why we must shot until the lethal threat is ended. 

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The cracked block reference was only to illustrate that .357 will easily shatter a pelvis. I will say that the nastiest wound I've ever seen on a deer came from a .260 round. I don't know the specifics, but the entry wound looked like a .22 size hole, but the exit side was as large as a raw hamburger pattie and sort of resembled that. The internal damage was massive as well. Heart and lungs appeared to have been in a blender. That is one nasty round.

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The shock from being shot will be the same no matter the caliber.

You will start to panic and be mentally defeated once you see a handful of blood

regardless of if its a .22 or 44Mag. I never bought into the bigger the better theory.

Bigger is better when hunting large animals as they don't know when to stop.

 

Now if your all hopped up on PCP or other drugs this all goes out the window and

a head shot is the only way to stop the threat immediately.

Edited by SHOTGUN MESSIAH
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When I first started shooting there were these targets I'd get that said that if you're shooting 9mm or stronger rounds a possible strategy might be to shoot an assailant in the groin as it could be argued that you are more likely to stop them by shattering their pelvis than to hit an instant kill spot where they would pass out before they could stab you/shoot you back.

 

This seems like a rather interesting idea but I'm not sure if it is practical or not.

 

If you are ever involved in a self-defense shooting, keep your yapper shut and talk to your attorney before making any statements to police.

 

Citizens do not have the right to "shoot to wound" as police do. The self-defense rights you have vary in every state and locale but in general

you are allowed to use lethal force to stop a threat where you are afraid for your life or serious injury or to that of another person. You shoot

to stop the threat. Whether the perp dies or not is irrelevant. But your choice to use lethal force must be justified.

 

If you state that you were just trying to wound the perp and then he dies, then there's the question of maybe you didn't really need to use lethal

force if you were just trying to hurt him without killing him. And now you killed him. Uh oh.

 

I believe it's also illegal for citizens to use any kind of "less lethal" ammunition like bean bag rounds. (May depend on your state/locale)

 

You need to be fully aware of the legal aspects of a self-defense shooting before you get involved in one.

 

I'm not an attorney, so take my advice for what it's worth.....

 

Also, just from a self-defense tactics standpoint, I don't think it's a great idea to aim for the pelvis, or knees, or toes.... you aim for center mass.

They will teach you that and state that over and over again for a reason in a bonafide self-defense course.

 

 

 

Sounds to me like some Liberal, man hating, Harley rider came up with that. "Shoot him in the dick!"

Something like this one, I'd imagine.

 

law-offices-charity-bar.jpg

 

Patriot.....   there is a huge amount of WTF going on in that pic!   015.gif    lol

Edited by Spartacus
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That was my main question, whether aiming for the chest or pelvis would stop a threat faster. It has nothing to do with trying not to kill someone or not, groins have a lot of major blood vessels that can cause someone to bleed out quickly. This pretty much "is it easier to break a pelvis than to insta-kill someone with a shot to the chest". 

 

But if aiming for the pelvis for the express purpose to STOP their body, whether their heart follows suit or not, would cause more legal trouble that does weigh towards the chest.

 

Of course if the blurb on the target is right and rendering their legs useless is easier than directly killing them it comes down to the whole "better judged by 12 than carried by 6". 

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Center mass period. When in doubt and if you have the actual skill, go failure to stop.  Two center mass and one to the head.  Even if they are wearing some sort of body armor on they're head just the shear impact of a round to the head with stagger them.  But, if your talking home defense then always no matter what go center mass.  If you survive the encounter the very first call should be to your lawyer then 911.  

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Dead men can tell no stories. Shoot to disable, and the target is center of mass. As trained by virtually every law enforcement agency in the world. There should be no further discussion on the matter.

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I figured if shooting attackers in the pelvis was a good idea I'd of heard of it other places, I mostly posted it to see if everyone would surprise me and say its a perfectly valid idea.

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Here's my thoughts:

It's legality risky. Though the argument could be made that you were "shooting to stop" and trained to shoot pelvic girdle having been taught that putting an attacker on his belly would be likely to incapacitate him this ending his activity. That said the military tactic is to put the third round in the top oh his head to ensure he's out of the fight. THAT is gonna get you hung for sure.

Will 9mm break a pelvis? Good damn right it will. Punch right through .

And is been shown again and again that you can't rely on shock or demoralizing of a gunshot to halt an attack. That's why shot placement is so heavily emphasized over caliber in any decent training. Though you want sufficient energy to penetrate any heavy clothing.

I intend to stick to center mass and t zone. If center doesn't stop em, t zone will.

Edited by poolingmyignorance
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I figured if shooting attackers in the pelvis was a good idea I'd of heard of it other places, I mostly posted it to see if everyone would surprise me and say its a perfectly valid idea.

 

 

If you aren't willing to use a gun as intended, you shouldn't consider using one at all. 

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The only tactical nutshot I ever heard of was the Israelis using suppressed .22's for crowd control. Protests disperse quickly when the cheif instigator drops to the ground for no known reason and is missing something rather important.

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Shoot. The knife out of his hand and then shoot him between the legs, then blow the smoke off the barrel , twirl gun a few times then holster it.

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In a 'life or death' situation, and THAT is the only kind where we would need to shoot another human being - THERE IS NO TIME TO AIM!!!!!!!!!

Center mass, two hands on gun to control shaking caused by adrenaline overload. Shoot until threat is neutralized.

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