SGL 530 Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 It would be a good exercise for you to learn how to completely disassemble your bolt. It's not at all difficult and will allow you to thoroughly clean it out and not have to worry that you have leftover gumout or other substances stuck in there. Hoppes or CLP will work fine at that point and you'll learn more about how your gun is put together. Get out a little container to hold your pins and other small parts as they are prone to disappearing if you bump the table. As me how I know. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 The bolt group should not be disasembled unless you have at least intermediate mechanical skills. Most of us are good at fixing shit, but not everyone is gifted with that talent. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted February 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 I'm not there yet I don't think, sadly. Still excited I can field strip and reassemble my guns easily so I think I have a ways to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wagnikov 186 Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Ok, well two things stick out. (1)- you said your lrbho spring and nut fell off. So at some point they begin to rise up and make contact with the bolt during normal cycling. (2) you confirmed my suspicions when you said the gun will fall into battery of shook. I would suggest you take a good look at your lrbho. A normally great functioning gun can be inhibited if(when) the iz-433 lrbho is not working right. It will drag the bolt or not work at all. The sheet metal pos that engages it it too short vs the vepr that does work. Legion has noticed this problem and tried to source verp parts for the saiga to remedy. The tell-tale for this symptom is rounded over edges on the lrbho(the part that stops the bolt) as far as cleaning I totally back Rogers just knock out the big chunks, only when it hold the bolt out of battery. 500-1000 rds on birdshot. 100 or so buckshot n slugs if Winchester after (1) lol jk. But I they are like shooting black powder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Yeah, I replaced the LRBHO with a new spring and nut but I figured it could be the main issue. I really don't know what I could do if it is the case, or possibly Legion if I send it to them. I also wonder if it could be the Mini-Monster muzzle brake and/or the Vepr 12 gas puc I bought from Legion to get the part numbers correct to put a 10 round US mag in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wagnikov 186 Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 well if you want to trouble shoot your self you could remove the lrbho, and then test fire. If that doesn't work I would prob send to legion or a smith that is VERY familiar with the 030/vepr shotguns. It sounds like you may not be super confident in your skills, but if the end result is the gun ending up at a gunsmith you don't have to worry about reassy the lrbho. Btw I had major cycling issues with my saiga 030 after attempting to get the lrbho to work. It's basically impossible without a different engagement tab.( the piece that contacts the mag follower and you push with your tigger finger to release the bolt) it eithe won't hold the bolt open or it will drag the bolt if you get it up enough to actually hold open on the last round. There is a post about this issue. If the lrbho is allowed to drag it will round over the edges on the bolt head and the lrbho exasperating the problem and making it even lest reliable. This may or may not be your cycling issue. But on mine it was. I haven't had much time lately but I had to give up on the lrbho on my 030 to trade for consistent cycling. Very disappointed. But am sure a vepr stamped lrbho engagement "bar," for lack of better terms, would solve the problem. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 yeah, I'm not too sure of my mechanical skills as of yet. I'm getting more and more handy as time goes on from working on my guns but since I just have the two right now I consider both of them vital and don't want to risk breaking one worse than it already is. Once I have one of the rifles I have my eye on and thus have a second long gun I'd be more willing to try serious tinkering with the Saiga. As it is now I'm fine just having someone at Legion fix it for a bit extra tacked onto the cost of converting it, I was hoping though that it might be something easy I could fix without risking disabling the gun if I screw up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,930 Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 You have a gas puc made for a different diameter of gas block and you only NOW bring it up!? Use your factory mag and the factory puck and this this thread will be over. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 I asked someone at Legion and they said that they were interchangeable, and I believe I'd also made a thread about that a bit back. What would be the legality if I did put the factory gas puc back in? Like would I have to leave my 10 rounder with a family member in another house or something since it'd be 11 Russian parts with the 10 round mag instead of 10.? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,930 Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Just don't put them in the gun at the same time until you get the legion one turned to the correct diameter... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) GunFun, on 09 Feb 2016 - 7:23 PM, said:GunFun, on 09 Feb 2016 - 7:23 PM, said:until you get the legion one turned to the correct diameter... You sure the diameters are different? A V12 and iz109 puck are the same diameter. Can't imagine the 030 being different. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/97871-what-is-the-difference-between-the-saiga12-puck-gas-vepr12-gas-puck/?hl=%2Bgas+%2Bpuck&do=findComment&comment=1033398 Edited February 10, 2016 by Mullet Man Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wagnikov 186 Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I was thinking they were very similar in dia Like a thou or so Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wagnikov 186 Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 This is an 030 gun. Iz433 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Wagnikov, on 09 Feb 2016 - 8:18 PM, said:This is an 030 gun. Iz433 Yeah I know. I don't have one to measure. You do though.... I was just saying I can't see them being different. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wagnikov 186 Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I think we are on same page. I was wondering if gun fun was thinking it was an iz109 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,930 Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I had read that the 433/030 puck was either a few thou bigger or smaller than the V12's. A couple people confirmed that. She said that she had a V12 puck from Legion in there so it is likely a bit tight or too loose. IMO if it fits and can be moved by fingers, it can't be too tight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Ahh. I don't recall ever seeing that. Link, with numbers? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 It might be too loose, possibly? If I take the gas tube off and put the gun on its butt stock the puc comes almost entirely out of the gas block. Its possible that the original Russian 030 puc didn't come out that easily. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,930 Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Can't you just compare them? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Hmmm, maybe the factory one is slightly smaller[?] The "Vepr" one was pretty loose earlier but now feels pretty firm in there whereas the factory one can slide in and out pretty easily. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heartbreaker 1,085 Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Get a caliper and compare the two pucks. If the replacement puck is larger than the factory, it will add friction to the entire system especially when it gets hot and dirty. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 To compare sizes, place them side by side, hold a straight edge on them and see witch end of the straight edge is higher! (if there is a need to know the exact sizes, a caliper is necessary, just to find the larger of the two, they are not necessary). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wagnikov 186 Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Saiga030 left vepr right. No mic or calipers available. The outside nub is shorter on the vepr, but also more shallow on the inside. So over all looks about the same thickness from where the op rod hits an the outside nub. OD is within a thousandth 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 Welp, she was acting up yesterday at the range. I had tried cleaning off the puc the night before and it was full of crud in the grooves, which I cleaned out, as well as the receiver. Same issues as before of stove-pipes and shells getting gouges cut into them when they misfed. I noticed whilst shooting that I was getting spattered by soot and when I got home I realized I hadn't heard my puc rattling around in its home so I'm figuring I may need to clean that spot out too. I must've only put about 500 rounds through it, and I'm wondering why its getting dirty so fast, this doesn't seem normal from what I've read on here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) Don't you have a red dot installed on the dust cover rail? It's pretty common for them to cause FTE issues. The gun is going to get dirty. 12g rounds will leave a lot of carbon fouling in a gas operated gun. Nature of the beast. Everything is bigger and there's a lot more powder in a 12g cartridge than a handgun or rifle. Plus the gas ports are larger which will allow more debris through. Edited September 7, 2016 by Mullet Man Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted September 7, 2016 Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 If you're not holding it firmly into your shoulder, it can cause malfunctioning issues. Sort of like limp-wristing a 1911. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 If you're not holding it firmly into your shoulder, it can cause malfunctioning issues. Sort of like limp-wristing a 1911. Honestly when I tried it on my left shoulder a trip or two back it seemed able to cycle field loads no problem. I wondered if I was just "limp-shouldering" it since I bruised near my chest/armpit on the left whereas I always end up bruising my right bicep. I thought that might be part of the issue and its good to hear that it might be part of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted October 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 I thought you guys were fucking with me ala "headlight fluid" but I'll be damned if taking the red dot off made my Saiga cycle much better. Cheapo Walmart ammo flowed like water and honestly groups pretty well at 15 yards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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