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unusual mounting position for red dot scope?


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I recently acquired an AR15 and now have a red dot scope on it. During fitting and initial sighting in the house with a bore sighting tool, I discovered my 62-year old eyes no longer want to focus well on the scope/dot in the customary location near the rear of the top rail.  I tried a variety of positions from all the way back to all the way forward on the top rail.  Low and behold; I can see the dot much more clearly and have much quicker target acquisition with it all the way forward on the top rail.  I’m also going to try a riser to see if getting it a bit higher will help, just don’t have one handy at the moment.  I have it dialed in at 65 feet inside the house and am now ready for live fire testing/adjusting, but waiting for the weather to clear so I can get out to the range without freezing my tucus off.

 

 

While I wait, has anyone else run into this sort of thing?  What were your solutions?  My eyes are not going to improve any but I plan to mention this to the optometrist on my next visit in May to see if there is anything that can be done with my prescription to correct things.

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Edited by CruisinTx2
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I can speak to the issue of seeing your optometrist. I also have terrible vision, since I work in front of computer screens all day I have had my doctor dial in my prescription to see up close. The drawback is that I sacrifice some far sighted vision to gain better near sight. Point is, since it's important to you it's worth looking into.

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It's user error.

 

Focus on the target, not the dot. The optics in red dot sights are set up so that you focus at infinity to see the dot clearly. If you're trying to focus on the dot and can't see it clearly, that's why.

 

Look at the target and focus on the target, and you will see the dot in focus, regardless of where you mount the optic on the rail. I've lost my ability to focus on near objects, but I have no problem using red dot sights even when they are mounted at the back of the rail and I can't focus on the body of the sight.

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In my opinion, what ever works best for you is the right way. I do have one concern. Is that a free float handguard? You may notice that you are able to tweak the handguard and affect the POI to point of aim.

 

Also, not to derail the thread, what lower is that?

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It's user error. . . . .

 

 

 

Not likely; as I have been shooting since I was 7 in 1961.  I am focusing on the target just as I do with my handguns and while the target is perfectly in focus, the dot seems to be blurry no matter where I have it mounted (except at maximum dist. from my eye) or how I have my head tilted.  Still; worth a try with a more conscious effort to focus on the target seeing as how this is my first AR.  

In my opinion, what ever works best for you is the right way. I do have one concern. Is that a free float handguard? You may notice that you are able to tweak the handguard and affect the POI to point of aim.

 

Also, not to derail the thread, what lower is that?

That's an ATI purchased just as you see it sans the scope.  16" 1:7 twist with dust guard, fwd assist, adj. stock.  I'm still learning about ARs; as stated above, this is my first.  I do plan to build another with longer barrel now using an Anderson mil-spec lower I already have waiting in the wings.

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If it works for you there is no reason to give it a second thought.

 

My eyes are crap and the dot is a smeared star no matter how good the optic or where I mount it.  It just feels right to me to mount a dot sight directly over the ejection port so that's where mine are (expect for AKs with forward rails).

 

How hot will it get. How soon will it fail?

That is what I asked about the Ultimak before I bought one but I've been using them for years and my optic never gets hot. Slightly warm at most, even during rapid fire. I don't do multiple mag dumps or use a bump fire stock.

 

His setup should be fine for heat unless he's letting Iraqvet8888 do a video with it.

Edited by Darth Saigus
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A properly designed and calibrated red dot sight will allow the target and the dot to be in focus at the same time, regardless of where the sight is located between the eye and target. I have 7 different firearms with red dot sights (3 Burris Fastfires, a cheapo BSA, 2 Meprolight Tru-Dots, and an Eotech), and I have no trouble seeing the dot clearly with any of them when focusing on the target, even though they are all mounted at the rear of the rail (3-6" from my eye) and I can't focus closer than 18-24" with my glasses on (which I always wear when shooting).

 

If the dot and the target are not in focus at the same time when the target is a reasonable distance away and the sight is 4-6" in front of your eye, you are either not actually focusing on the target, or have a defective sight.

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I have somewhat similar prob, as I am forced into tri-focals. Precisely why I went to red dots, as I focus on the target & the dot remains visible. Not so good with regular sights, they disappear!

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Do what ever works best for you buddy. Normally, with a handgun, or iron sights on a rifle, or even peep sights on a rifle, I focus on the front sight. With A red dot, or a holographic sight, like an EOtech, I look through the dot, but focus on the target.  Sometimes I have a hard time switching from one to the other.

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Do what ever works best for you buddy. Normally, with a handgun, or iron sights on a rifle, or even peep sights on a rifle, I focus on the front sight. With A red dot, or a holographic sight, like an EOtech, I look through the dot, but focus on the target.  Sometimes I have a hard time switching from one to the other.

That was one of my first thoughts; that I simply need to get to the range and get used to it.  The only other times I have used a red dot is on my Hi Point 9mm carbine.  That took a little getting used to at first too, but wasn't nearly as difficult as using the ghost sights that came on it from the factory.  Before that was 20 years ago when I put a red dot on my dad's 22 bolt action because of his macular degeneration.  With my eyes 20 years younger then, I was hitting a golf ball at 50 yards with no problems like I'm having now. That's why I'm thinking it's a problem with my eyes and not a lack of skill or technique or quality of the scope.  Hell, I've been an expert shot for over 50 years now, but I have always shot with either old school open sights or a conventional magnifying scope of some type. 

Edited by CruisinTx2
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I have several rifles with forward-mount sights, one "scout scope" and the others are various types of red-dots. They work well for me, too.

 

"If it looks silly, but it works, it's not silly!"   032.gif

That works for me; function over form; I should have known that seeing as how I have been driving "butt-ugly" BMW motorcycles since 1977 & loving them every mile of the way.

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This is a pretty common issue with red dots and astigmatism, where the dot appears like a scattered star at "normal" mounting locations.

Do what you need to do, but you might also consider using a flip-out magnifier with your dot. I don't have eye problems yet, but I understand that the magnifier can eliminate the dot scattering, with the benefit of getting some low power magnification - most are 3x. The tradeoff would be that if you have to flip the magnifier off, you will get the scattered dot again. 

 

Personally I think 3x is a good power level for all around shooting at any range, and if you flip the magnifier off at very close ranges, you probably won't care about how precise the dot is on the RD sight.

 

The Primary Arms magnifiers are really affordable and have great reviews

http://www.primaryarms.com/red-dot-magnifiers/c/130300/

 

You might also consider some of the illuminated reticle 1-4x scopes, which on the 1x setting are pretty comparable to a red dot. Again Primary Arms has some affordable options, you can get a Nikon or Vortex for slightly more.

Edited by mancat
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Nothing wrong with your scout mounting position. If it works for you and you can use it to knock the center out of a target, do not worry about what others are doing. My vision is worsening every year and I am having to get creative like many others to find what optics and mounting positions work for me.

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Well, finally got to take this rig out to the range today.  It was obvious from the git-go that the red dot was mounted way to low.  I had visited with a person at work who has considerable experience with these things and was told he had the same problem which the resolved with a simple riser. 

 

That said, I loaded up 10 rounds and fired the first shot from 50 yards at a 7.5" circular target printed on 8.5 x 11 paper.  I did not even hit the paper and found it quite difficult to even tilt my head enough to see the dot and target clearly at the same time.  Next, I hung a full sized silhouette target at 50 yards and fired the next 9 rounds. You can see in the picture, all 9 hit a bit high but not terribly far off center line.  For a first outing with the scope initially set at 65 feet with a bore sighting tool, that's not bad.

 

What I found though was that having to tilt my head far enough to see the scope mounted so low made for very slow target acquisition.  I have borrowed a small riser from a friend to see if that helps.  I have already set it indoors with the bore sighter and hope to do a live fire test in a day or two.  Just setting it here in the house it seemed much easier to view when raised up a little.  I've chosen to leave it way out front for the next test but may experiment with other more conventional locations over the next few outings until I find what works best for me.

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