tonsoffun2325 0 Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 So I was going through a Facebook group looking for my last purchase before Facebook shuts down all the gun pages and I came across a guy selling a Saiga 12 that he claims was converted at the factory. When I asked him how he knew it was converted at the factory he said cause it was in a box and wrapped in plastic when he bought it. Just making sure I'm not crazy but I was pretty sure they had to be imported in Sporting configuration to get into the U.S. Let me know if you can't see the photos added with this post Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,930 Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 That's an arsenal one from K-var. The forend is a dead give away. If you notice a grey trigger group with Arsenal cast into it, that's another clue. As is their custom model numbers which I never remember. Or somone bought an arsenal forend... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SGL 530 Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 GunFun is most likely correct. It's probably an FIME GROUP (subsidiary of Arsenal) SGL12-09. https://www.k-var.com/shop/SGL12-09.html If this is the case, it will be marked as being imported by FIME Group and there should be no sign of the old trigger group axis holes. They are great shotguns but you should be aware that you will be limited to using 5 round magazines until you change out some parts. The only US part on this gun is the hand guard so you'll need to do a little homework and swap out a few foreign parts to run larger capacity magazines. http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaShotgunVerifyCompliance 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tonsoffun2325 0 Posted January 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) So was it originally converted by izhmash or does k- var import them and convert them? And thank you for y'alls response, this forum has been pretty helpful with all my Saiga questions Edited January 31, 2016 by tonsoffun2325 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SGL 530 Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) In this case, it was never converted... it was built in it's current configuration by Izhmash. All did KVAR was swap out the factory hand guard for their own design. Edited January 31, 2016 by SGL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saltydecimator 482 Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 not exactly sure why thes didnt sell better... i mean the fun is workin on them to a degeree, but being ready to rawk is kewl Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,930 Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 GunFun is most likely correct. It's probably an FIME GROUP (subsidiary of Arsenal) SGL12-09. https://www.k-var.com/shop/SGL12-09.html If this is the case, it will be marked as being imported by FIME Group and there should be no sign of the old trigger group axis holes. They are great shotguns but you should be aware that you will be limited to using 5 round magazines until you change out some parts. The only US part on this gun is the hand guard so you'll need to do a little homework and swap out a few foreign parts to run larger capacity magazines. http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaShotgunVerifyCompliance Some Arsenal shotguns have Arsenal US made trigger groups. So that's 3 toward compliance. A $10 puck would do the rest. K-Var /Arsenal/ FIME has always been very cagey about answering direct questions re which of their parts are imported. I think this is because they mix and match so a certain model number might have one of the US made Kvar stocks, or it might have a bulgarian stock, and so on. They look the same and are both well made, but one might be 922r compliant and another not. Kvar doesn't want to be held to your misunderstanding, or future changes in their mix. I'd look at the trigger to figure out whether it is the US made arsenal. That trigger is designed to clone the crappy feel of a military trigger, but it is US made. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SGL 530 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 GunFun is most likely correct. It's probably an FIME GROUP (subsidiary of Arsenal) SGL12-09. https://www.k-var.com/shop/SGL12-09.html If this is the case, it will be marked as being imported by FIME Group and there should be no sign of the old trigger group axis holes. They are great shotguns but you should be aware that you will be limited to using 5 round magazines until you change out some parts. The only US part on this gun is the hand guard so you'll need to do a little homework and swap out a few foreign parts to run larger capacity magazines. http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaShotgunVerifyCompliance Some Arsenal shotguns have Arsenal US made trigger groups. So that's 3 toward compliance. A $10 puck would do the rest. K-Var /Arsenal/ FIME has always been very cagey about answering direct questions re which of their parts are imported. I think this is because they mix and match so a certain model number might have one of the US made Kvar stocks, or it might have a bulgarian stock, and so on. They look the same and are both well made, but one might be 922r compliant and another not. Kvar doesn't want to be held to your misunderstanding, or future changes in their mix. I'd look at the trigger to figure out whether it is the US made arsenal. That trigger is designed to clone the crappy feel of a military trigger, but it is US made. This is a good point, but I did a lot of research on these guns in particular and have a pretty good understanding of the model numbers. The only models that are 922r compliant were the SGL12-61 and the SGL12-94. These had US furniture and triggers installed by FIME/Arsenal. The fact that this one in particular has the Izhmash grip and rail are a dead giveaway that it's an SGL12-09. The OP can check the trigger, but dollars to donuts, it's Russian with an over travel limiter being the biggest clue. I remember several people finding out that their shotguns were out of compliance and getting pretty pissed at KVAR about it. I don't think they (KVAR/FIME/Arsenal handled it very well and should have posted it very clearly. They are known for copy/pasting text from one product to another so the descriptions were pretty misleading on their website. On the plus side, if the OP decides to purchase this shotgun, collectors would happily pay a premium for the genuine Russian stock and pistol grip, which would more than cover the cost of some US parts. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 How can they not be up to 922r but have a pistol grip? I thought that took them out of the "sporter" category automatically. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,930 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 How can they not be up to 922r but have a pistol grip? I thought that took them out of the "sporter" category automatically. Early on that was the case. Then BATFE approved a bunch of more traditional shotguns for import which had pistol grips. Long story short they backed down on their stance that pistol grip meant "non sporting." At the same time, they got a warning shot from congress, because they were expressly defunded from doing further studies on the sporting purpose of imports on that budget. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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