Century Arms Faces $5M Suit Over AK Safeties

[XD45 7,124]

This is not a new thing and it's such a simple thing to fix I find it baffling makers are still shipping them this way.

 

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/02/08/century-arms-faces-5-million-class-action-lawsuit/

 

Edit:  This is not just a Century issue.  Any AK with a "full auto" safety will do that if you push the lever past the top cover.

 

Obviously this isn't a huge issue for most AKs since the top cover stops the lever,  But I still modified all mine to "semi-auto" configuration.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Darth Saigus

[HB of CJ 1,263]

How could such a thing happen?

[Sim_Player 1,939]

Another bullshit lawsuit.

 

Improper use of anything is dangerous.

 

I have NEVER disassembled a loaded gun, either.

 

The safety was never intended to be used that way.

 

I guess all barrels should be stamped with an arrow showing where the bullet comes out.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Sim_Player

[XD45 7,124]

The claim is that the safety lever goes past the dust cover when forcefully pushed up to the safe position.  That is different than disassembling a loaded rifle.  Having a rifle that can fire when put on safe is, well, UNsafe.

 

There is no excuse for having a mechanism that can drop the hammer from ANY actuation of the safety lever.  Well, other than decockers, which I still don't trust and will only use with the firearm pointing in a safe direction.

 

So now I guess I'm in the position of defending the scumbag lawyers.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Darth Saigus

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

There is no shortage of stupid in the world market and this was idiotus maxumus, go long on colanders.

 

AFAIK the safety issue was well known many years ago, likely why our Russian AKs didnt use the FA safeties ya think?

 

Thing is everyone was warning Century they had screwed up when the C39 released.

[JonWienke 131]

On every AK I've ever handled, the dust cover blocks the safety lever from traveling up past the "safe" position as alleged in the lawsuit. How is the safety lever supposedly getting past the dust cover without gratuitously excessive force (i.e. enough to bend the lever or the cover) being applied?

[tatonic 159]

_{Just install a F/A kit and call it good.}

[nicklebon 27]

 

Edit:  This is not just a Century issue.  Any AK with a "full auto" safety will do that if you push the lever past the top cover

 

I've got a before they were famous Red Jacket built M70AB2 that has the behaviour. I've never seen it as a problem. I think anyone hurt by the behaviour of the FA safety bar would be an example of evolution in action and the world is better off without them.

Edited February 9, 2016 by nicklebon

[JoeAK 337]

There is no shortage of stupid in the world market and this was idiotus maxumus, go long on colanders.

 

AFAIK the safety issue was well known many years ago, likely why our Russian AKs didnt use the FA safeties ya think?

 

Thing is everyone was warning Century they had screwed up when the C39 released.

 

All of my saigas (7.62x39, 5.45, and 12 ga.) have FA safeties, and they'll all do this with the dust cover removed.

[JonWienke 131]

 

All of my saigas (7.62x39, 5.45, and 12 ga.) have FA safeties, and they'll all do this with the dust cover removed.

The key phrase being "with the dust cover removed". How is fingerf###ing the safety (or any part of the fire control mechanism) of a loaded, partially disassembled firearm of any design not gross user negligence and stupidity?

[XD45 7,124]

The AK is a rifle made for gross manipulations.  In theory the safety cannot go past the dust cover.  In practice that is not always the case.

 

On my M92 the lever will go past the dust cover without a huge amount of force.  It has happened more than once by accident.  The nub on the lever goes slightly past the detent and it pushes the lever away from the receiver just enough that the dust cover doesn't stop it as positively as it should.

 

I modified the safety to a "semi-auto" configuration shortly after I got it as I do all my AKs so no hammer drop.

 

But this isn't just a matter of idiots who "need to be removed from the gene pool".  Especially if it happens to be you or someone you care about in front of the muzzle when it happens.

 

Edited February 9, 2016 by Darth Saigus

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

 

There is no shortage of stupid in the world market and this was idiotus maxumus, go long on colanders.

 

AFAIK the safety issue was well known many years ago, likely why our Russian AKs didnt use the FA safeties ya think?

 

Thing is everyone was warning Century they had screwed up when the C39 released.

 

All of my saigas (7.62x39, 5.45, and 12 ga.) have FA safeties, and they'll all do this with the dust cover removed.

 

 

Heh all of mine are modified so I just assumed, yeah my bad.

 

Anywho Century knew it right after the C39 released so two-three years and seems they just let it go. 

[storm6490 2,768]

I hope the litigious assholes loose and an expert comes into show how fucking dumb they are. It is operator error, not a weapons malfunction. This is complete fucking bullshit and the libs will love it.

[gunfun 3,931]

This is not a new thing and it's such a simple thing to fix I find it baffling makers are still shipping them this way.

 

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/02/08/century-arms-faces-5-million-class-action-lawsuit/

 

Edit:  This is not just a Century issue.  Any AK with a "full auto" safety will do that if you push the lever past the top cover.

 

Obviously this isn't a huge issue for most AKs since the top cover stops the lever,  But I still modified all mine to "semi-auto" configuration.

 

That was my thoughts exactly when I saw the videos about this months ago. It's hard to believe that any builder could let them go to market. A monkey with a $20 harbor freight angle grinder could correct one safety every 30 seconds. I don't see how a shop can excuse not spending the money to even just do an ugly but effective job.

I hope the litigious assholes loose and an expert comes into show how fucking dumb they are. It is operator error, not a weapons malfunction. This is complete fucking bullshit and the libs will love it.

 

You are just plain wrong here. Using the safety normally with this fault makes it very easy to swipe past the dust cover and induce this problem. Especially when the safeties are mix and match dumped into the guns. It is very likely that the dust cover won't stop the safety from over traveling.  It is absolutely a fact of an incorrectly built weapon.

 

Moreover this is common knowledge. This is as dumb as shipping cars with the wrong fitting connecting the brake hoses. It's easy to fix and certain that it will bite you if you don't.

[storm6490 2,768]

What fucking monkey pulls the safety lever past the notch and expects anything else than a fuck up?

 

It's like suing the bar for getting hammered and running into someone with your car.

 

I hope this fucking stupidity is not rewarded.

[gunfun 3,931]

 

 

All of my saigas (7.62x39, 5.45, and 12 ga.) have FA safeties, and they'll all do this with the dust cover removed.

The key phrase being "with the dust cover removed". How is fingerf###ing the safety (or any part of the fire control mechanism) of a loaded, partially disassembled firearm of any design not gross user negligence and stupidity?

 

 

As above, dust covers have a lot of play. Especially when you are not using a safety with a ridge aligned to run into the dust cover. Thus this can happen quite easily happen with the dust cover in place. Either with the safety slipping up too far inside the cover, or skipping past it to the outside. I have handled plenty of AKs which do either of those things, and I bet you have too.

[JESS1344 508]

GUYS,

   DREMEL UP!

 

   JESS1344

[XD45 7,124]

What fucking monkey pulls the safety lever past the notch and expects anything else than a fuck up?

 

It's like suing the bar for getting hammered and running into someone with your car.

 

I hope this fucking stupidity is not rewarded.

You're letting your emotions overrun your brain.  AKs are intended to be used hard.  Not babied like some pansy AR.  If I push my safety up forcefully and it goes past the dust cover and drops the hammer, that's a design flaw. 

 

Unfortunately the lawyers are involved now and that makes it worse for everybody but the lawyers.

[gunfun 3,931]

Hey. Don't blame the lawyers. The lawyers didn't make this crappy assembly of mismatched parts in an otherwise OK gun. Century did. Blame Century. 

 

This is all on the people who shipped a product with a known flaw. Also at their market tier, most of their customers are not going to be AK experts... So they shipped a bunch of AKs likely to fire because they didn't do an easy obvious fix to the people most likely to be unaware of the risk.

 

IMO century has put a lot of hard work into rebuilding their reputation from the guns they threw together to get under the 94 AWB wire. It's a shame they would spend all that energy to build a quality gun and cut such an easy corner. This thing will probably settle cheap, Century has probably already corrected the stupid situation they've made and everyone will move on. 

[XD45 7,124]

I'm not blaming the lawyers for the design flaw. 

 

I'm blaming the lawyers for being lawyers.   Class action suits are giant slot machines that only pay off for lawyers.

 

OK I'll be fair.  Not all lawyers are scum sucking misery feeders.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Darth Saigus

[gunfun 3,931]

I used to think that way too. used to.

 

The real thing is that individuals don't have the power to win against big companies. Even if they win, they don't make an impact on the company's strategy. However, allowing individuals to pool their resources let's them have a real voice and make their full argument. If they had a legit point, while the individual plaintiffs don't walk away fully compensated for their harms, at least they probably made a big enough financial dent to change the company's practices. This is the only way you have a real shot at dealing with things like your bank or your cell phone company intentionally cheating you by $3 on every bill. For a single person it is not big enough to bother, or perhaps even to meet the filing threshold in the court. But a hundred thousand customers who are tired of getting ripped off can actually make a difference.

 

The other thing it does is actually good for the companies. When they have made a destructive blunder with many potential plaintiffs whose claims are individually worth while, it can get them all lumped together and done with.

 

It also helps with consistency. You can have the previous situation, facts right on the edge. The same court or different courts can hear multiple cases with essentially the same factual arguments and have different conclusions for each one depending on what jury or judge was the fact finder. This makes for an absurd situation.

 

Nothing with law is perfect, because it is ultimately people telling the facts, people defining the rules, and people making the decisions by applying the facts to the rules. I think class actions have a valid purpose. It allows lots of small people to pursue a grievance against a large wrongdoer that the state won't pick up. IMO individuals are likely to look out for their own a lot more fairly and reasonably than a state watchdog will. 

 

Incidentally, we are a lot less lentiginous comparative to other nations than a lot of people think. One of the main things we have going for us is comparative predictability. America is an expensive place to bring a business because of our double taxation system on corporations. Think an extra 15% or so in practical terms vs using some country in Europe as your corporate seat. We also have a built in disadvantage on our patent filing priority. Yet a lot of companies still locate here, because our legal system gives predictable and fairly consistent principles of liability, rather than arbitrary whims without precedence. Moreover, our contracts are consistently enforced. This makes it possible for both parties to make a deal and know what that deal is actually going to be at the time they sign papers.

[Sim_Player 1,939]

Putting on my untrained lawyer hat.)

 

Is it really a $5 Million Dollar mistake?

 

There are no deaths involved, as far as I know.

 

I would expect a much lower awarding.

[gunfun 3,931]

Opening bargaining/ advertising to potential class members. They can't raise the damages later, necessarily, so they start high in expectation of multiple plaintiffs, and anticipate lowering their number in an amended pleading, then bargaining down to something less than that. 

[storm6490 2,768]

Muzzle discipline, natural selection.... We don't need anymore bullshit lawsuits against weapons mfg's. If your safety is a NO-GO, bend the fucking cover, selector, return for repairs or swap out or cut a notch. Dont fucking sue like a little cockroach commie bitch.

[Sim_Player 1,939]

Gold-digging.

[HighPlainsDrifter 466]

 

I modified the safety to a "semi-auto" configuration shortly after I got it as I do all my AKs so no hammer drop.

 

M92 Safety.jpg

What's this modification you speak of?

[gunfun 3,931]

 

 

I modified the safety to a "semi-auto" configuration shortly after I got it as I do all my AKs so no hammer drop.

 

M92 Safety.jpg

What's this modification you speak of?

 

 

Simple. If yours has an FA style safety, you grind out the middle of the tab so that it can clear the disco. The part on the right that interfaces with the leg of the trigger body is left alone.

 

That way the safety can't push the disco forward and rock the trigger hook forward with it.

[Atomic Punk 25]

Muzzle discipline, natural selection...

 

Poor muzzle discipline is likely to get the person NOT holding the gun shot. 

 

I was shooting at a very nice indoor range a few weeks ago and turned to see some old Fudd showing his rifle to his buddy with the muzzle pointed right at me. I promptly corrected him on his muzzle awareness. 

[gunfun 3,931]

At this point you usually get some blowhard saying ->

 

"Muzzle discipline is everything, and mechanical safeties are worthless, when I was in _insert branch and country of military_ I ran around with my safety off all the time, blah blah blah. Some blather about 'booger hooks', because I am too cool to use the word 'fingers.' That's how real I am, son. Me> You, grunt grumble, ramble..."

 

In those times, I think of this:

 

 

I also assume that guy was probably a filing clerk, or maybe in charge of sweeping the motor pool floor.

 

Mechanical safety, or good muzzle and finger discipline? No. Wrong question, and false dichotomy. Both count. A safety on an AK which causes the gun to fire if you use it brusquely is clearly a serious flaw likely to cause problems.

 

[XD45 7,124]

Remove the yellow area.  Your safety lever will never be able to drop your hammer.