Bob Melver 0 Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) Hello all. Stalker here. Been an S12 owner for several years now, and been able to resolve issues with the manual/google(which usually led me here), however right now I'm having an embarrassingly simple problem which has turned out to be an outright showstopper. I'm trying to replace the guide rod/spring with the JTE kit, but the guide rod pin is stuck. All the videos (namely the one on CSS) show a guy just hammering the pin out with a vice. Well...several bent/shattered punches later, (one of which was in a press at a machine shop) I'm being told by just about everybody (mostly local gunsmiths) that my only option is to drill it out. One suggested I try alternating between putting it in the freezer for several hours and hitting it with a heat gun, which I don't own. I'm concerned that both of these are going to damage the guide rod, not to mention, I really don't want to have to replace the pin. I've also tried soaking it in lube and trying the vice/punch again. Pics below, apologies in advance for poor quality. It's the best I can get in the circumstances. You really can't tell by the picture, however the pin on the right side seems slightly smashed in. While my Saiga is by no means a vodka special,(although I've had my issues with it) my guess is that the pin was slightly too long so they jammed it in place by hammering/pressing it. http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a470/BobMelver/160325-123104_zpss9ca4ssu.png Google hasn't come up with a solution I haven't tried, and everyone I've spoken with in person is telling me that they've never had a pin so darned stuck, and that the vice/soaking has worked. Has anyone else had a similar problem, or any ideas as to how to go about this? Thanks in advance Edited March 27, 2016 by Bob Melver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 Out = left to right. (just a thought) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Melver 0 Posted March 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 That's what I've been doing. Well, for the most part. My one friend interrupted to try himself and hit it backwards. *facepalm* I double checked (and cross-referenced multiple times) to make sure it wasn't the other way around for some reason. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) Interesting terminology. Are you referring to the recoil spring and guide rod? Host your pics somewhere else, or upload them directly on here. Your links don't work for me Have you tried using your vise as a make shift press? Small socket on one side to catch and a push pin of some sort on the other, then tighten the vise. Edited March 27, 2016 by Mullet Man 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Melver 0 Posted March 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Oh gosh. Sorry just a bit of spoonerism going on there. >_> Yes, I meant the guide rod. Typing faster than I can think. That's a good idea in regards to the press, however I tried essentially the same thing with a couple washers; it ended up with my friend's punch all fubar. I might give that method another go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 When trying the vise trick, you need a push pin that is very short (stout, unlikely to bend), roughly the length of the pin being pushed out. I'd suggest cutting down a drill bit shank that's slightly smaller in diameter than the pin your pushing out. Use the small socket on the opposite side, to push the pin into. Use needle nose pliers to hold the push pin in alignment. Might be a 3 handed job to get everything aligned and held in place properly until the vise gets clamped down on it all. It should work, I've pushed quite a few pins this way and have yet to have one not come out. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Save all those BENT pin punches, cut them off about 1/8" long. Use the short STIFF punch to START the pin moving - THEN use a full length punch to finish driving it out. You however are in the deep shit, as you say BOTH ends of the pin have been hit, so it is expanded on both sides and will never come out that way. Take it to a good machine shop that can grind the pin flush to eliminate the expanded portion of the pin and then drive it out for you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MLM0358 107 Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Can be a major hassle. Some come out just fine - others will not come out with a punch. I made a fixture in an arbor press. Works every time. You have to clearance the tooling so the part lays flat - also have a hole in it for the pin to fall out. use a short punch pin. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Melver 0 Posted March 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Unfortunately employer had other plans for the weekend so I haven't been in town to try these, but I just want to say thank you all for the feedback! I had given up on using punches. Even a really short one got damaged. I also never thought of grinding down the smashed part. Don't know why I never thought of it myself. Derp. I guess that will mess up my finish, but I can take care of that later. Thanks again, folks. I really appreciate it. When I get back in town, I'm going to grind down the smashed end, and probably try another press, after a few cycles of freezing/heating. While I was out of town I spoke with my father who suggested that I put it in hot water between freezing. Still researching that idea. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Punching out a pin is all about having a solid surface. You should put it on a concrete floor with a piece of steel as a support, and of course an opening for the pin to move in to. Most of the problem people have is that the force of the impact is being dissipated by the spongy surface. You may think that your vice is solid, but it is mounted to a wooden bench (assumably) and that whole assembly is too bouncy. On concrete with a steel spacer, the impact is all transferred to the pin, and the shock of that breaks the friction holding the pin in. That same stuck pin will move as though it is not tight at all. Make the stubby punch also like the other guy said Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Melver 0 Posted March 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) So, post more damaged finish/marks on the holder from more attempts, I eventually caved in per pleas of those who's vice/concrete floor I was borrowing and drilled the pin out. I decided that the damage of repeated(and repeated, and repeated) impact was the greater of the two evils. Replacement parts on order from CSS. No matter the length of the punch or surface we left it on, we had no visible progress. On a completely unrelated note, those CSS guys are great. Am researching and considering using a drill bit as a pin in the meantime. I just wanted to thank you gentlemen for all your help. I will use yalls advice in the future. Edited March 29, 2016 by Bob Melver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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