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Finally converted my S12. F#@$! The BHO lever!


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Got it converted. 5 minutes after completing the conversion my BHO lever popped into the receiver and I had to fish it out with a piece of wire. So I cut it in half and left it in the gun. This prevents me front having to order the nonBHO hammer.

 

Here it is. I still need to decide on iron sites or eotech... I'm curious to see if the barrel shroud and muzzle break are worth the weight...

I hate the gap between the shroud and foregrip. I may chop down the barrel a tad and rethread it so eliminate that gap. I also need a different side rail that better matches the top rail of the foregrip. Any suggestions on Picatinny rail sights?

post-50262-0-13749300-1460126940_thumb.jpeg

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Congrats on your new build!

 

Don't know if you've heard about this or not:

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/98234-eotech-is-accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds/

 

 

For an optics rail, I don't know if you're going to find one which will perfectly align with your quad rail. Otherwise, I don't know how attached you are to that quad rail, but...That joker is tall... If you still choose an EOTech, cheek weld is not even a thing, and chin weld is questionable at best.

 

 

 

Personally, and please don't take this offensively, I would scrap the quad rail, the shroud, and the optics rail, get yourself a nice tri-rail if you want to keep some picatinny up front (and judging by the "vertical" grip, I assume you do), get a good quality optics rail (I 100% suggest an RS Regulate AK-303 and AKR. It is pricey, but I think it's safe to say it's one of if not the best manufacturers.), and the optic itself is up to you, but we now know EOTechs are prone to failure when subjected to extreme temperature ranges or high humidity. Assuming you aren't living at the top of Mt. Everest, the bottom of hell, or in a swamp in the middle of Florida (like myself), you might not ever experience any bad juju with one, but, speaking personally again, if you have any serious use of this firearm beyond range toy, I wouldn't trust my life with something as critical as your ability to accurately aim to an optic which the manufacturer themselves have said is capable of failing. I'd get a nice Aimpoint. smile.png

 

See 303 and AKR (Also note that Aimpoint specific mounts are available for the 303 rail, should you choose to go that way. Heck, pretty much, it's find a base and rail you want to pair together.):

 

http://www.rsregulate.com/optics.php

 

 

Lastly, might I suggest some stick mags? Drums are fun, but they are heavy, and bulky.

 

Good:

http://www.brownells.com/magazines/shotgun-magazines/magazines/agp-arms-saiga-12-10rd-magazine-prod56136.aspx

 

Good:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/3302172860/sgm-tactical-magazine-saiga-12-gauge-polymer-black

 

Best (May require some fitting):

http://stores.csspecs.com/saiga-12-gauge-10-round-steel-magazine/

Edited by forsaken352
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Put some cheap flip ups on it for now and go shoot it.
​Take the brake off and shoot it some more.  Let us know what you think.

​Another item worth considering is the stock. You could cut the tang off and go with something different.

Just some thoughts... Go shoot it , that is the fun part of having these things.

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Thanks for all the replies. I'm not sure if I am going to keep my Saiga how it is or not.

 

I appreciate the info on the Eotech sights. I'm going to stay clear of them and just run iron sights.

 

I do have a few stick mags. I just slapped the drum on for the hell of it.

 

So I can leave it tacticool or take it down to pretty much stock. I haven't decided yet. If the break helps I will leave it tacticool because I can't stand how the Molot brake looks on a barrel without a shroud. I don't like the bulky looking break on the end of a skinny barrel. Looks like a d*** or something. Lol. No thanks. If I take the brake off I will just get the standard AK front sight and a more standard looking foregrip.

 

So I'm going to put about 100 rounds through it and see what I decide. If I keep it like it is I will probably get the 303 side rail mentioned above and some nice iron sights.

 

Thanks for all the replies! Keep them coming.

Edited by Hazieview
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If a break reduces muzzle hop I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

The Saiga was imported unconverted. So i dont mind adding or removing stuff to improve performance.

 

Just because Chevy or Ford makes a vehicle it does not mean it can not be modified to make it better. Now I don't like painting a firearm up with neon green glitter and crap. Lol.

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LOL at people who will buy a "vodka special" Saiga as a project gun knowing that it probably has reliability issues (at least with some ammo), but trash Eotech. Yeah they made some defective products, but at least they had the decency to ofer refunds. And not all Eotech sights are bad. I have one on my Saiga, and it doesn't have the temperature POI shift problem, at least not enough to detect in the tests I've done. An Eotech makes a lot of sense as a shotgun sight--use the dot for slugs, and the circle for buckshot & birdshot. Like any other piece of gear, you should test it before trusting your life to it. And if you have a bad one, Eotech will repair, replace or refund.

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That is the same reason I was looking into Eotech. The dot for slugs and the circle for buckshot. It makes since because it is also a very quick and easy sight to use. If I did get one I would feel more comfortable putting it on a detachable mount just incase it did fail.

Edited by Hazieview
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LOL at people who will buy a "vodka special" Saiga as a project gun knowing that it probably has reliability issues (at least with some ammo), but trash Eotech. Yeah they made some defective products, but at least they had the decency to ofer refunds. And not all Eotech sights are bad. I have one on my Saiga, and it doesn't have the temperature POI shift problem, at least not enough to detect in the tests I've done. An Eotech makes a lot of sense as a shotgun sight--use the dot for slugs, and the circle for buckshot & birdshot. Like any other piece of gear, you should test it before trusting your life to it. And if you have a bad one, Eotech will repair, replace or refund.

 

If you're referring to my post, don't think I'm "trashing" on EOTech. They offered refunds to those who wanted them, and they stood by their word and sent out checks. That's very cool of them. My issue, however, is not with temperature change, as it apparently has to be extreme, but rather with the failure due to high humidity that EOTech has said they've experienced as well. I live in Florida, basically in a swamp. Doesn't get much more humid than that. Furthermore, yes, a Saiga is a hit or miss off the line, but they were never really intended to run the "Walmart special" bulk 7 1/2 that we Americans use. They are combat shotguns intended for buck/slug use. However, that aside, with the amount of information to be had online, even a novice at home hobbyist/gun enthusiast is capable of converting a Saiga, and making it run reliably, but an EOTech, at least for me, isn't something that I can fix should I experience a POI shift. Even if you send it back to EOTech for "repair" due to this drift, as far as I know, they are all capable of failure under the same temperature/humidity situations, so are they even capable of fixing their own product? If so, why have they not upgraded them since first discovering the failures back in 2006-2008 (If I remember correctly)? It would've saved them from a 20 something million dollar lawsuit to the U.S. government, and they wouldn't have felt the need to issue a refund to us consumers for nothing, thus saving millions more, I'm sure.

 

ETA: I forgot to mention, the only reason I brought this up is to make Hazieview aware that a problem does exist, that way they can make a more informed decision on their optics purchase.

Edited by forsaken352
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If you get time go out and shoot some low brass. Look on the ground at the pile empty shells. Then shoot some 3" magnums. The empty shells from the 3" magnums will be launched 3 times the distance as the low brass lol. There is no point to this post. I just thought it was fun to compare the two. Oh and yes the 3" magnums did feel like they were going to knock my shoulder off even with the break and added weight of the shroud and quad rail. Lol

Edited by Hazieview
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JonWienke, on 13 Apr 2016 - 05:39 AM, said:

LOL at people who will buy a "vodka special" Saiga as a project gun knowing that it probably has reliability issues (at least with some ammo), but trash Eotech. Yeah they made some defective products, but at least they had the decency to ofer refunds. And not all Eotech sights are bad. I have one on my Saiga, and it doesn't have the temperature POI shift problem, at least not enough to detect in the tests I've done. An Eotech makes a lot of sense as a shotgun sight--use the dot for slugs, and the circle for buckshot & birdshot. Like any other piece of gear, you should test it before trusting your life to it. And if you have a bad one, Eotech will repair, replace or refund.

 

The reticle might make sense but the super high sight to bore center alignment don't. Chin weld on an AK anyone? No thanks.

The reticle isn't fancy enough to offset that issue I have with that style sight on an AK.

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Hmmm I've never seen the JP. I'm not sure how the red dot compares to the holographic from a visual aspect but I really like the holographic. I will have to do some more research. Thanks for showing me the JP it's definitely an option.

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The reticle might make sense but the super high sight to bore center alignment don't. Chin weld on an AK anyone? No thanks.

The reticle isn't fancy enough to offset that issue I have with that style sight on an AK.

A stock with a cheek riser fixes that problem easily enough. If you use an adapter to run an AR-style stock, there are plenty of options that work just fine. I use the Fab Defense GL-Shock; it has the recoil-absorber spring and an adjustable-height cheek riser that make shooting full-power slug rounds both comfortable and accurate.

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The reticle might make sense but the super high sight to bore center alignment don't. Chin weld on an AK anyone? No thanks.

The reticle isn't fancy enough to offset that issue I have with that style sight on an AK.

A stock with a cheek riser fixes that problem easily enough. If you use an adapter to run an AR-style stock, there are plenty of options that work just fine. I use the Fab Defense GL-Shock; it has the recoil-absorber spring and an adjustable-height cheek riser that make shooting full-power slug rounds both comfortable and accurate.

I don't use AR stocks. And I don't care for cheek risers, especially when there are more viable options that don't require the use of one.

Something else I forgot... the battery life sucks on Eotechs too.

 

Why settle for something that is only arguably better by, some people.

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Yes, battery life is "only" 800 hours or so, depending on the brightness level you set. There are sights that have better battery life, but you're going to be changing magazines far more often than batteries.

 

Do you not use flashlights because the battery life is only 1-8 hours?

 

And as to a stock with a riser, don't knock it until you've tried it.

Edited by JonWienke
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JonWienke, on 19 Apr 2016 - 5:40 PM, said:

Yes, battery life is "only" 800 hours or so, depending on the brightness level you set. There are sights that have better battery life, but you're going to be changing magazines far more often than batteries.

 

Do you not use flashlights because the battery life is only 1-8 hours?

 

And as to a stock with a riser, don't knock it until you've tried it.

 

Are there options for flashlights that have much better battery life? Drastically better like the difference between an Eotech and an Aimpoint, didn't think so. 800hours goes by quick ("only" ~33 days) when its left on, in a safe, between shooting trips.

 

I have tried a cheek riser. As a matter of fact, I have one on my Vepr 54r with a POSP scope. It's annoying as can be and relatively uncomfortable but I keep it and use it for the "authenticity", since I can not afford a real Dragunov.

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VforVandetta, on 24 Apr 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:VforVandetta, on 24 Apr 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:

What exactly is so special about an aimpoint, besides the battery life? I have yet to get a good answer to this question from anyone. Ever.

 

I'll touch this. I never said they were special. I never said they were the 'end all be all', either. But.... they work, they are proven, they are light, they do not require a cheek riser, they can co-witness on an AK (something you will never be able to do with an Eotech), they do not have the bulk that is required to use AA batteries and they have never had a massive multi million dollar buy back because of faulty electronics.

Cherry on top is battery life.

Edited by Mullet Man
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I think the dependability and durability of the Aimpoint Micros warrants mention as well. Aside from that, Primary Arms  Advanced Micro is very similar in most aspects, I like the 2 MOA dot better than whatever dot my T1 has, and you can buy 3 for the price of a H1. I come in contact with quite a few Eotechs and they seem to be more than a decade behind Aimpoint, heavy, large, large batteries, and crap battery life. I can carry a decade worth of Aimpoint batteries in a grip and have plenty of space left over for NFA docs and a few small spare parts. A decade worth of Eaotech batteries would not fit in a grip. Proper respect to Eotech for standing behind their gear though. I hope they revamp and offer something more competitive with the Aimpoints. I'm sick of handing weapons with Eotechs on them. It may sound odd, but I become annoyed when I have to handle a weapon with an Eotech. They bug me. It doesn't have to be all of the negative things that it is.

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Are there options for flashlights that have much better battery life? Drastically better like the difference between an Eotech and an Aimpoint, didn't think so. 800hours goes by quick ("only" ~33 days) when its left on, in a safe, between shooting trips.

 

I have tried a cheek riser. As a matter of fact, I have one on my Vepr 54r with a POSP scope. It's annoying as can be and relatively uncomfortable but I keep it and use it for the "authenticity", since I can not afford a real Dragunov.

If you'd ever bothered to read an Eotech owner's manual, you'd know that it has an auto-shutoff feature so that you can't kill the battery by leaving it on in the safe. If you use the down-arrow button to turn it on, the timeout is 4 hours, and if you use the up-arrow button, it is 8 hours.

 

And re cheek risers, comfort depends heavily on their design. Set up properly, they are no more uncomfortable than a bare stock. I have them on a variety of guns, ranging from .22LR to .300 Win Mag. The key is that they should slope down to the front slightly (front slightly lower than the rear) so that the riser is not being jammed into your cheek under recoil. If the front is higher than the rear, then the stock is going to slap your cheek whether you have a riser or not.

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I guess I am just weird. But I love my EO on my vepr 12 like a fat kid likes cake. The reticle is perfect for switching targets quickly. I know EXACTLY how my shot pattern corresponds to the 65MOA reticle, so that I don't have to be nearly all the way on target before I take my shot. It's awesome. The 1MOA dot also allows me to pinpoint where my holdovers are, so that I can have the smallest radius in which I have a reasonable hold over for shot, and a hold under for slugs. Also the same MOA dot allows me to achieve 3" slug groups at 50 yards, and the 65MOA ring is great for trap and skeet. As for battery life, I just buy big crap value packs. If I have something important like a match, I put some frieshies in there and off i go. That's about once or twice a month. Not a big deal to me.

I cannot understand why anyone would buy a $400 aimpoint, when there are so many high quality clones out there. The Vortex sparc II for example is $150. Bright, 2MOA, built like a tank.

 

I also fall into the team cheek riser camp. Stack em high. And give me a nice high cheek weld. I cannot stand having to turtle and crunch my head down onto a stock to see my dot.

 

Just my .02

 

-V

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