Choosing A Rifle

[JDeko 792]

I have a my Saiga 12 and Tokarev so all I need to complete the trinity is a rifle. I was thinking of an AK-74 or Balalaika but I sort of don't want to have all Russian guns. Also was considering a Marlin .45-70 but the low capacity and cost of ammo made that seem an iffy choice.

 

Currently I'm considering mostly either a PTR 91 or 32, so basically an HK G3 chambered in either x51 or x39. It'll mostly be for range trips and maybe deer hunting if things change a bit. Of course home defense if it comes to it as well. 

 

I've heard that regular G3 furniture doesn't fit the PTR 32s since the barrels are shorter, which is a bit of a downer but there seem to people that make custom parts for G3 pistols that'll make 32 handguards and I wonder if x39 might be a better choice of ammo than .308 as far as cost and availability goes.

 

I'd love input for me to bounce my thoughts off of, I plan to hold off until August so it'll of been 2 years since I bought my Saiga, so by around that time it'd be nice to feel like I had a solid choice in my head.

[Heartbreaker 1,085]

Are you looking for a semi or bolt action? Budget? If you're planning to hunt deer you probably want something in .308

[JDeko 792]

Semi-auto, around 1000 or less. Deer hunting would be the least of its uses I imagine as I'd have to go up to midway up the palm of Lower Peninsula of Michigan to use a rifle for deer. Moreover is it true [as I believe I've been told] that x39, x54R, and x63 all tumble in a bipedal attacker within urban combat distances whereas x25 and x51 ice-pick straight through "zombie"?

[Heartbreaker 1,085]

Have you considered building an AR?

 

Lemme load up some Hornady 180gn SST at 2500fps and we'll see about "ice-pick straight".

[JDeko 792]

I just find ARs to be rather hideous. I'll admit they are quite reliable these days, parts everywhere, .223 everywhere, hell I admit poly parts are much more durable than wood but I just really don't like ARs. 

 

I figure if we do end up in Mad Max scenarios I'm already fucked 17 ways from Sunday so I don't have to worry about living long enough to have to worry about my gun breaking down or running out of "exotic" ammo. I'm mostly going on looks and fun to use to a degree, but still reasonably practical in a first world nation. 

 

Are G3s easy to maintain, or at least not known to be a bastard to keep running? I watched a cleaning tutorial and it didn't seem too involved and the person there said to run them dry as opposed to heavy lubing. I know the SVD or 74 would be easy to clean, o idea on a lever action Marlin. 

[Heartbreaker 1,085]

You could get a Ruger mini-30 (7.62x39). About 800 street price.

[JDeko 792]

I am tempted by those, I hear they have notoriously bad accuracy though. If not then I'd actually be pretty tempted by an M1 Carbine clone.

[forsaken352 235]

Save and spend a little over your $1,000 limit and purchase an M1A Standard model. That should cover everything you want to do. Lookin' at ~$1,300.00 before S&H/Transfer/Tax. Well worth it.

[XD45 7,124]

When buying a semi-auto rifle, consider the cost of magazines and ammo along with the cost of the rifle. 

 

Guns are for shooting and you'll get a lot more shooting with a 7.62x39 than with a 308.

[Heartbreaker 1,085]

M1As start around 1400 street value before fees for a basic model. Good rifles but pretty heavy, 9 pounds bare. Although pretty much any .308 is gonna be heavy.

 

A surplus VZ.58 is another option. A bit over 1k but definitely not a Russian weapon or AK copy. I believe Gary has one and likes it.

When buying a semi-auto rifle, consider the cost of magazines and ammo along with the cost of the rifle. 

 

Guns are for shooting and you'll get a lot more shooting with a 7.62x39 than with a 308.

Good point. That's the reason I sold my Ruger SR762 and got the Scout Rifle. Slower shooting so I can focus more on accuracy. Better for reloading.

[JDeko 792]

When buying a semi-auto rifle, consider the cost of magazines and ammo along with the cost of the rifle. 

 

Guns are for shooting and you'll get a lot more shooting with a 7.62x39 than with a 308.

 

I am considering those facts, G3 mags can be had for like 3 dollars but x51 ammo costs a lot more. Of course AK mags [which the 32 takes] aren't hard to come by either but it doesn't work with LRBHO ones. 

 

I'll take an M14 clone into consideration, since I was considering a Dragunov which would be about that much. Would an M1A be much easier to maintain than a G3?

[forsaken352 235]

 

When buying a semi-auto rifle, consider the cost of magazines and ammo along with the cost of the rifle. 

 

Guns are for shooting and you'll get a lot more shooting with a 7.62x39 than with a 308.

 

I am considering those facts, G3 mags can be had for like 3 dollars but x51 ammo costs a lot more. Of course AK mags [which the 32 takes] aren't hard to come by either but it doesn't work with LRBHO ones. 

 

I'll take an M14 clone into consideration, since I was considering a Dragunov which would be about that much. Would an M1A be much easier to maintain than a G3?

 

 

M1a's are simple. They eat two things, ammunition and grease. Purchase a lifetime's supply of grease, and you're set. I've been using Lubriplate on my loaded model, personally, and it seems to work well. Just have to know which parts to grease is all. Aside from that, there are a couple of tools which you'll need in order to completely disassemble the rifle. You'll need a gas cylinder wrench, you'll also need a gas plug tool, I use the USGI combination tool for the plug (which is cheap and fits in the stock along with the cleaning kit and an oil bottle), and lastly, you'd probably want the Sadlak gas piston/plug cleaning drills.

[XD45 7,124]

In the end, your money your choice.  Just be realistic about your intended use.  Do you plan to shoot mostly 300yds and under at targets that don't have a heartbeat?  Then 7.62x39 or 5.56 are far better choices than 308.

 

Yep I have some 308s and I like them.  But I shoot my x39 and 5.56 rifles at least 20 times more than my 308s.  It's just a matter of practicality.

 

You're going to buy the rifle and you're going to buy the ammo.  So do you want to shoot, or do you want to brag on an internet forum?

[Sim_Player 1,939]

I moved toward the AK because, my Cetme .308 weighed so much (9-10 pounds), a long barrel, and expensive ammo.

 

I love any semi-auto rifle in .45, for close range.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Sim_Player

[netpackrat 566]

No rifle is really a great choice for home defense, and you already own one of the greatest HD implements ever devised, so I wouldn't consider that as a factor for selecting a rifle.  Because if you do, then your choices really boil down to 5.56 or 5.45.  Either of which would be sub-optimal for hunting if that's a possibility.

 

If it were me, I would get a decent AK in 7.62x39, and then the bolt gun du jour in .30-06 for hunting and/or longer range work.  Trying to cover everything with only one rifle will lead you to frustration, but the AK will do just about anything you would want a fighting rifle to do, and the .30-06 bolt gun is capable of taking any game on this continent.

[JonWienke 131]

I have a PTR-91, and it's a nice gun, but has a few quirks. The roller blowback action is unique, and makes shooting the thing more comfortable than most 308s, at least if you have a good buffer in the stock. The desigh is pretty hard on brass; the chamber flutes make funky ridges in the neck and shoulder of the case, and ejections usually makes a nice dent in the side. So I usually shoot Tula steel case, which it eats like a fat kid eats Skittles, and is about the same price as brass 5.56. CTD has it for a little under 40 cents a round shipped.

 

The ergonomics aren't as well thought out as an AR. The safety requires you to take your hand off the grip unless you have huge hands, and pulling the charging handle is not for girly men even if you get the extended charging handle (which I highly recommend). The magazine release button location is similar to that of the AR, but further forward relative to the grip so you have to let go to activate it.

 

The blowback action also means that the gas impingement design of the AR is clean by comparison--the thing gets FILTHY after not many rounds. But that doesn't stop it from going bang every time you pull the trigger anyway. I've got over 200 rounds through mine so far and even though I haven't cleaned it at all since the clean and lube I did when I first got it, it still feeds and functions just fine. The groups have opened up a bit from fouling--they went from ~2" to about 4".

 

It's an interesting gun, but not for everyone. I'd recommend shooting one before you decide to buy one.

[YOT 3,743]

Ya, I don't get that you think an AR is hideous, but an HK G3 is a consideration.

[Heartbreaker 1,085]

You could probably make an AR look pretty close to a G3 with careful furniture selection.

[G O B 3,516]

Get am AK. No other gun is as forgiving of maintenance, or cleaning, = more fun times! Then get a 30-06 bolt gun. You should be able to get BOTH for around $1,000.

[HB of CJ 1,263]

First dump your handgun.  The Tok is not a man stopper.  It is a man pisser offer.  You need something that will stop.  Consider obtaining whatever you like as long as it is a Colt made 1911A1 .45 automatic.  A pussy cat to shoot.  Very little recoil.  Embrace the platform.

 

Or ... and do not laugh, a Springfield Armory Extreme Duty (XD) tactical 5" high cap .45 pistol with ambo thumb safety.  13+1.  Mine works 100%.  Consider the factory daily carry tune job along with adjustable high night sights and a threaded barrel for a future can with booster.

 

As far as a rifle goes, since you need to go to the most powerful caliber you can handle and work, consider the Saiga 21" bbl 7.62x51 rifle.  Cut and thread the barrel back to about 18.5".  Do the 9.22r conversion thing.  You can mod this rifle anyway you want.  That gives you 3 guns.

 

My opinions only which should always be held suspect.

[XD45 7,124]

XD needs no "dumb safety". Already has 2 safeties. Otherwise a sound choice. My XD45 tactical has eaten every kind of 45 ammo ever tried including steel and begged for more.

[HB of CJ 1,263]

Loaded chamber indicator.  Cocked striker indicator.  Safe type trigger. (maybe)  Grip safety.  Ambo thumb safety.  Internal inertial striker mechanism.  The brain behind the trigger.  The XD .45 5" Tactical ambo thumb safety Pistol is about as safe as one can get.  I need the thumb safety.  50+ years of use.  Also I am left handed.   Yep, a very good choice. 100% reliable.

[Heartbreaker 1,085]

If you get another pistol, get a Grand Power K100 (9mm) or P45 (.45acp). I'm getting one myself soon.

[JDeko 792]

I'm somewhat unlikely to get another pistol. PPU hollow points out of my Tokarev should be able to at least greatly diminish the danger of anything trying to attack me especially now that I'm able to compensate for the way my pistol recoils through practice so I know how its going to move and thus firing quickly doesn't effect my aim very much. If I were to get another pistol it would be a 1911 in either .45acp or .38 super or a .410 chambered revolver. 

 

And if I were to get two rifles I'd get the Marlin .45-70 and then some sort of smaller caliber rifle as opposed to a bolt .30-06, and at that point maybe an AK pistol or something. That is unlikely though.

 

Seems also that G3 wood furniture is now pretty hard to come by so I may just end up having to ["having to" meaning something my weird aesthetic obsession compels me to do] get the .308 version with wood furniture already on and a separate rail to mount on the top instead of the other way around. Not looking good for my chances of getting a PTR32 of my liking.

[BigChongus 765]

The AR is hideous but the G3 isn't?

[JDeko 792]

No accounting for taste I suppose? Maybe if I could get an ACR chambered in something like 5.45 or .300 blackout for under 1000 I'd be tempted. I just really dislike the look of the M16 and have come to dislike .223 just for whatever reason. I'm not trying to defend my arbitrary tastes, more trying to say much like like with people we all have turn ons and turn offs and for me M16s and 5.56 are certainly mood killers.

[Heartbreaker 1,085]

That's the beauty of the AR platform. It doesn't have to look like an M16 or fire 5.56. There are dozens of chamberings and thousands of furniture options.

[JonWienke 131]

G3 surplus wood furniture is available online, for fairly reasonable prices. I have a spare set laying around I'm not using.

[JDeko 792]

I can't really find it most places [some say they have it, but out of stock]. Even on HK forums people say that the wood G3 parts are pretty scarce. 

 

Come august at this rate I may be very interested in buying your spare wood parts unless someone turns my head with a better idea here. 

[gunfun 3,931]

serious answer:

 

You seem to be into being the special kid on the block with the weird toy no one else brought. You don't have a lot of money. You want unusual. You want to ask advice and then discuss it for weeks and then do the opposite.

 

How about a VZ58 variant? They are probably around $500 now for a gun that would cost about $1200 to make, and with a few mags included. Shoots 7.62x39. Runs. Most people think they are nicer than AKs, but they are a little hokey for optics.

 

As the others said, if you actually plan to hunt, get a gun for that too. I'd say you can go to any old used gun store and find a decent Winchester 70 or Rem 700 or similar that was made in the 60s or 70s for a couple hundred. Might even have a decent scope on top. It will shoot as well as any new 1000 gun and can certainly handle a few practice trips and 3 hunts a year. Might actually have better fit and finish than a new 1000 gun.  You could also get a K31 swiss for hunting, which fits the gun hipster urge. or a SMLE. Those are pretty nice too.

 

This would leave you with both guns and some ammo, well under $1K.