No More Felons & Convicts Says DOJ

[Wolverine 10,360]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/05/doj-to-nix-felon-convict-terms-deemed-stigmatizing.html?intcmp=hplnws

 

 

[Heartbreaker 1,085]

This is obviously due to ink companies with political connections looking to make a profit off the new, much longer monikers.

[Sim_Player 1,939]

I would prefer a more descriptive term like, "person who committed child rape", etc.

[Ronin38 2,117]

Working on new labels for Hitlery already?

[randumbthoughts 75]

I believe in justice. I believe that all sinners should have the chance to repent, and make penance.

 

Some people may be beyond repentance, at least in this world. Child molesters, murderers, rapists. 

 

However, a punishment should be handed out justly. No punishment should last forever unless it is for the gravest of crimes. The word "felon" brings to mind the image of rapists and murderers. 

 

However, many people are also branded "felon" for smoking pot, for petty theft, for getting in a fight that went too far. There are "sex offenders" branded for life because they were urinating in a bush or had sex with a drunk girl who regretted it in the morning and cried rape. There are felons who has a twelve round magazine in a ten round state. 

 

To take people guilty of minor or moderate crimes and sentence them to a few months, or even years in prison, is fine. To brand them ineligible of ever having gainful employment for the rest of their lives only guarantees that they will commit a crime again some day. Once the sentence is over, it should be over.

 

Now, if you are just going to make the same mistakes three, four, five times, then you just have no intention of ever turning your life around. For those people, they should not be out in society at all perhaps. 

[YOT 3,743]

Bullshit. 

 

I believe in justice. I believe that all sinners should have the chance to repent, and make penance.

 

Some people may be beyond repentance, at least in this world. Child molesters, murderers, rapists. 

 

However, a punishment should be handed out justly. No punishment should last forever unless it is for the gravest of crimes. The word "felon" brings to mind the image of rapists and murderers. 

 

However, many people are also branded "felon" for smoking pot, for petty theft, for getting in a fight that went too far. There are "sex offenders" branded for life because they were urinating in a bush or had sex with a drunk girl who regretted it in the morning and cried rape. There are felons who has a twelve round magazine in a ten round state. 

 

To take people guilty of minor or moderate crimes and sentence them to a few months, or even years in prison, is fine. To brand them ineligible of ever having gainful employment for the rest of their lives only guarantees that they will commit a crime again some day. Once the sentence is over, it should be over.

 

Now, if you are just going to make the same mistakes three, four, five times, then you just have no intention of ever turning your life around. For those people, they should not be out in society at all perhaps. 

 

Bullshit. The laws of different States define what constitutes felonies. If you knowing break those laws you are a felon, or a whiney-assed bitch that doesn't like being called what they are for not playing by established laws.

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

Bullshit.

 

 

 

I believe in justice. I believe that all sinners should have the chance to repent, and make penance.

 

Some people may be beyond repentance, at least in this world. Child molesters, murderers, rapists.

 

However, a punishment should be handed out justly. No punishment should last forever unless it is for the gravest of crimes. The word "felon" brings to mind the image of rapists and murderers.

 

However, many people are also branded "felon" for smoking pot, for petty theft, for getting in a fight that went too far. There are "sex offenders" branded for life because they were urinating in a bush or had sex with a drunk girl who regretted it in the morning and cried rape. There are felons who has a twelve round magazine in a ten round state.

 

To take people guilty of minor or moderate crimes and sentence them to a few months, or even years in prison, is fine. To brand them ineligible of ever having gainful employment for the rest of their lives only guarantees that they will commit a crime again some day. Once the sentence is over, it should be over.

 

Now, if you are just going to make the same mistakes three, four, five times, then you just have no intention of ever turning your life around. For those people, they should not be out in society at all perhaps.

Bullshit. The laws of different States define what constitutes felonies. If you knowing break those laws you are a felon, or a whiney-assed bitch that doesn't like being called what they are for not playing by established laws.

Read this YOT,

Understand that the government has no power over innocent men. They must instead seek to regulate every possible action, so that every man is inevitably guilty of something and can be controlled.

Read this it's a great example with real world cases of how innocuous incidents lead to felony charges.

http://m.mic.com/articles/86797/8-ways-we-regularly-commit-felonies-without-realizing-it#.q13dzibhH

 

I have a personal story of how a traffic stop lead to weapons charge( class a misdemeanor ) for a pocket knife (perfectly legal folder).

I was 18 and yes we were out drinking, got pulled over .I was back seat passenger. They made us all get out, searched us, found my pocket knife ( in my pocket imagine that) said we all smelled of pot. None of us smoked. Searched the car, food nothing. So they came back sat us on the curb for 2 hours while they dug through the book to find something to charge us with. I was arrested for "unlawful carry of a weapon" . Court comes I've got a lawyer who called me after the arrest. ( I'm 18 making $7/hr, so his $250 is really all the money I have) he insist I pay him at the door, then him and the judge exchange pleasantries, he says " ok they offer $100 fine + 24 hours time served or he could take it trial and win but I had to pay $2700 and half up front. ( obviously didn't have) I asked how he knew he could win. He said " I own the same knife. Carry it everyday." So I pay the $100+ court fees and get a weapons charge on my record and an official " violent offender " label. Keep me from getting a few jobs and decent apartments for years. All because of what? Bored cop, just knew he had a punk kid who needed a lesson... ( not sure what lesson that was) but that shit head could've ended up getting me a year in jail...cause he was fucking bored.

Harris County process hundred of cases like that a day, not everybody gets off as easy. I'm one of the few people who didnt go to jail that day.

So take a minute read the article I posted and realize the only difference between us and thousands of felons is we haven't ended up under the microscope yet.

[YOT 3,743]

Let me put it in a way a lawyer might understand. The difference between not being a felon and being a felon is the conviction. 

 

Go Liberty!

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

 

Let me put it in a way a lawyer might understand. The difference between not being a felon and being a felon is the conviction.

 

So crime is ok if you don't get caught? Did I read that right?

[YOT 3,743]

Nope. Crime is not ok. 

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

Nope. Crime is not ok.

But the only difference between your potential felonies is the conviction. If you dig through state and feral law we're ALL guilty of something. Most of which didn't harm anybody, or anything.

Yet, your position is that should you get caught, to hell with you.

I personally cannot see justice in having victimless crimes much less victimless felonies.

Did you read about the guy who caught a felony fraud conviction for taking a sick day when he wasn't sick?

Or the hiker in possession of endangered animal good, cause he picked up a feather from an eagle?

Are those guys really deserving to have their rights striped as the guy who raped a child?

Your position so far has been : Yes.

[YOT 3,743]

I would think you wcould understand the different classes of felonies, and the differences in penalties for the different classes as defined by the State.

 

Sorry about the inability of your lawyer when you were a kid. Probably knowing what you know now.... aww, nevermind.

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

I would think a person would recognize what is a victimless crime and what is not. That one would choose to champion what is right by their principles and not arbitrary dictates of legislators whom seek advantage of special interest. Simply saying " that's the law" regardless of whether there is an actual victim or not, it's allowing legislation to draft your morales for you.

 

You didn't really touch on the examples in the article I referenced. If you can't take time to read it, then you really aren't putting an honest effort into forming an opinion.

 

My story wasn't about a lawyer who didn't know, it was about what happens when there's an unlawful conflict of interest in the court from years of working together, and how nobody cares to pursue it, because that side of the law looks out for each other.

[jerry52 893]

When people get hurt there needs to be a response.

That's what doing time is all about. Changing a name is not going to make you anymore acceptable to society.

If you have done time it is up to YOU to convince society that you have changed.

[Spacehog 2,218]

I would think a person would recognize what is a victimless crime and what is not. That one would choose to champion what is right by their principles and not arbitrary dictates of legislators whom seek advantage of special interest. Simply saying " that's the law" regardless of whether there is an actual victim or not, it's allowing legislation to draft your morales for you.

You didn't really touch on the examples in the article I referenced. If you can't take time to read it, then you really aren't putting an honest effort into forming an opinion.

My story wasn't about a lawyer who didn't know, it was about what happens when there's an unlawful conflict of interest in the court from years of working together, and how nobody cares to pursue it, because that side of the law looks out for each other.

While I agree with you on principle...we need to redefine what a felonious crime is, people need to accept the responsibility of their actions. What your intellectual argument does not take into account is YOT has first hand experience with the worst of the worst in the prison system. If he has no tolerance for people whining about how being branded a felon affects their opportunities for rehabilitation, then you know what...I can respect that. He has earned that in my book. I could not do what he does and look at the human race in the same way. Edited May 7, 2016 by Spacehog

[jerry52 893]

Ditto!

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

 

I would think a person would recognize what is a victimless crime and what is not. That one would choose to champion what is right by their principles and not arbitrary dictates of legislators whom seek advantage of special interest. Simply saying " that's the law" regardless of whether there is an actual victim or not, it's allowing legislation to draft your morales for you.

You didn't really touch on the examples in the article I referenced. If you can't take time to read it, then you really aren't putting an honest effort into forming an opinion.

My story wasn't about a lawyer who didn't know, it was about what happens when there's an unlawful conflict of interest in the court from years of working together, and how nobody cares to pursue it, because that side of the law looks out for each other.

While I agree with you on principle...we need to redefine what a felonious crime is, people need to accept the responsibility of their actions. What your intellectual argument does not take into account is YOT has first hand experience with the worst of the worst in the prison system. If he has no tolerance for people whining about how being branded a felon affects their opportunities for rehabilitation, then you know what...I can respect that. He has earned that in my book. I could not do what he does and look at the human race in the same way.

I understand and respect that. I hold no I'll will toward YOT I just wish to help him view from outside his experience bubble. I'm certain he would like me to look at it from his perspective. Still trying to get that picture. I can only guess what animals he deals with. Though I wonder how many become animals to to survive in that environment ... hard to tell.

[jerry52 893]

Now they have to be animals to be in prison.

People who break the law and hurt people to a financial degree , who dress nice and drive expensive cars, who teach their help to do the same can and will be sentenced to do time.

I deal with this lot every day. The problem is that they are an camelion with money to keep them from doing that time.

Crime is crime and a crook is a crook. Society does not make a criminal it is the choice of the individual who think they are justified in getting a head in life on the dollars and the sweat of hard working individuals.

Instead of calling them felon let just call them crooks, what's the difference

Edited May 7, 2016 by jerry52

[james lambert 3,059]

My experience with a rotten cop cost me plenty of cash...I prevailed, but it was costly and I was about 18 as well.

 

I would guess there is more to your story than you let on.

Miscarriage of justice can on occasion happen, but its no excuse for the 99.9 % that are correctly convicted and correctly labeled or monitored! 

 

Plenty of mistakes are made on both sides of the fence

I have NO, count that as NO tolerance for criminals period.

 

do the time, pay the debt....I still wont associate with them

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

Now they have to be animals to be in prison.

People who break the law and hurt people to a financial degree , who dress nice and drive expensive cars, who teach their help to do the same can and will be sentenced to do time.

I deal with this lot every day. The problem is that they are an camelion with money to keep them from doing that time.

Crime is crime and a crook is a crook. Society does not make a criminal it is the choice of the individual who think they are justified in getting a head in life on the dollars and the sweat of hard working individuals.

Instead of calling them felon let just call them crooks, what's the difference

Legislators fabricate criminals all the time. Look at gun legislation.

How about that guy here in Texas who's doing federal time for collecting rain water?

Tell me there is justice in that.

[YOT 3,743]

In the rotten lawyer's pocket.

[james lambert 3,059]

Give me a link to the rainwater felon

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

Give me a link to the rainwater felon

I have to eat some crow in this one.

I read an article about 2 years ago when the man a being charged and the whole thing became public...fast forward a few months I saw another article saying he'd been sentenced to a few years.

So now I go looking for the link again and a few outlets had circulated a few articles that falsified the sentence. It was 30 days local, but they did drain his reservoir.

Edited May 8, 2016 by poolingmyignorance

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

In the rotten lawyer's pocket.

I think the large majority of our political issues stem from lawyers.

Everything from frivolous lawsuit, to lawyers turned politicians exploiting the law in their favor.

[jerry52 893]

So what does this have to do with not calling them felons?

[YOT 3,743]

 

In the rotten lawyer's pocket.

I think the large majority of our political issues stem from lawyers.

Everything from frivolous lawsuit, to lawyers turned politicians exploiting the law in their favor.

We certainly agree on that.

[menace667 194]

So, I read a lot of these posts and keep seeing the phrase "victimless crime". Can you please explain what this is for me? I was a cop and for a crime to occur there had to be a victim, be it a person or "the state" there was always a victim. Also, just because a person was not a victim doesn't make it victimless. Crack dealers who are arrested for distribution, where the victim is "the state" and not an actual individual, will and do have an impact on society. Same for any drug dealer, drunk driver, reckless driver, financial criminal, etc....

 

I do agree that at times there are asinine laws written and enforced, but often when you hear stories about crazy prosecutions there was more to the story. Also, you aren't convicted by a judge or lawyer but by a jury of your "peers" so if it is some crazy ass conviction they are ultimately responsible for passing down the decision, so by convicting on these crazy charges the public at large are abeddng the creation of these laws.

 

One last point. Felon is a term that describes the severity of a crime for which you were convicted. Everyone doesn't immediately think murder of rape, but people do see that often you showed little care for the safety and security of the public at large through your actions. if Uncle Sam steps in and protects your status as a felon post incarceration those you come in contact with now become victims. How would you like to run a company that handles tons of cash and you hire a thief, which you didn't know about because the government coddled him. Same for these "victimless" white collar criminals. They still have their degrees and can get right back to others money and lives with no one knowing the better. Do you want a thief handling your 401k accounts? How about your personal medical records? Bank transactions? How about being your wife's attendant in a hospital? It is easy to sympathize until it will directly impact you. When you say "sure I would give them a chance", and you probably will, think how you would feel when you can never retire because your 401k was stolen by a career criminal who ran off to a foreign beach, of your kids college fund just dried up, or hell your kid was killed I a bus crash by a drunk bus driver who was a habitual offender but didn't have to disclose that little tidbit on their application so they didn't have to be penalized.

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

So, I read a lot of these posts and keep seeing the phrase "victimless crime". Can you please explain what this is for me? I was a cop and for a crime to occur there had to be a victim, be it a person or "the state" there was always a victim. Also, just because a person was not a victim doesn't make it victimless. Crack dealers who are arrested for distribution, where the victim is "the state" and not an actual individual, will and do have an impact on society. Same for any drug dealer, drunk driver, reckless driver, financial criminal, etc....

 

I do agree that at times there are asinine laws written and enforced, but often when you hear stories about crazy prosecutions there was more to the story. Also, you aren't convicted by a judge or lawyer but by a jury of your "peers" so if it is some crazy ass conviction they are ultimately responsible for passing down the decision, so by convicting on these crazy charges the public at large are abeddng the creation of these laws.

 

One last point. Felon is a term that describes the severity of a crime for which you were convicted. Everyone doesn't immediately think murder of rape, but people do see that often you showed little care for the safety and security of the public at large through your actions. if Uncle Sam steps in and protects your status as a felon post incarceration those you come in contact with now become victims. How would you like to run a company that handles tons of cash and you hire a thief, which you didn't know about because the government coddled him. Same for these "victimless" white collar criminals. They still have their degrees and can get right back to others money and lives with no one knowing the better. Do you want a thief handling your 401k accounts? How about your personal medical records? Bank transactions? How about being your wife's attendant in a hospital? It is easy to sympathize until it will directly impact you. When you say "sure I would give them a chance", and you probably will, think how you would feel when you can never retire because your 401k was stolen by a career criminal who ran off to a foreign beach, of your kids college fund just dried up, or hell your kid was killed I a bus crash by a drunk bus driver who was a habitual offender but didn't have to disclose that little tidbit on their application so they didn't have to be penalized.

Victimless crime : drug possession/use

Making sales victimless by default

The state is only a "victim" in the sense that the arbitrary dictate they imposed was violated and left avenues for confiscation of revenue.

Just compare any law against drugs to alcohol or prescription deaths and yet to justify them.

Then before you get on the "trafficking " issue ,keep in mind those traffickers wouldn't have a market of their product wasn't black market and could be regulated.

Another example would be prostitution. (Some states a felony after multiple arrest) still safer when regulated.

Then of course there are the magazine restrictions and assault weapons bans..

Again the only "victim" is the states arbitrary dictate. It's literally holding respect of a piece of paper written by scum bags like Bloomberg in higher regard than fellow humans rights to choose how to live their lives.

[james lambert 3,059]

The THOUSANDS of people murdered by drug cartels and smugglers are not victims of crime .

 

You buy the dope from people at some level....but the cash goes to the top.

victimless crime my ass!

 

your arguments are defining the type of person you are 

Edited May 8, 2016 by unforgiven

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

The THOUSANDS of people murdered by drug cartels and smugglers are not victims of crime .

 

You buy the dope from people at some level....but the cash goes to the top.

victimless crime my ass!

 

your arguments are defining the type of person you are

How much of Anhiser Busch did AlCapone own? Or Crown royal?

Those laws create the black market that allow scum bag cartels to become multi billion dollar world powers.

Good intentions pave the road to hell.

Prohibition is a"good intention" with seriously evil consequences.