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18th Amendment meant tax money in government coffers over a substance that society was going to use despite laws. You can even find taxed corned whiskey these days. I don't use the stuff myself as I prefer a clear mind of what I am perceiving.

 

Pot too is being taxed in those states where sale is permissible despite federal law.

 

By the way did you catch the strip dance of the national candidate for the Libertarian Party? Now that's freedom. Gross fat old man!

BINGO! WE HAVE A WINNER !

So would you advocate, or support prohibition today?

 

And no thankfully I didn't catch that.

 

Thank you for an excellent though out response.

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Personally, I'd rather smoke meat.

I just can't believe a member of THIS forum would post a topic with the INTENTION of "stirring up the pot" .   I'm aghast! Will someone please point me to the safe space?   Funny Fuckers.

My point wasn't to debate the findings, it was to illustrate how we accept one risk above another simply based on arbitrary dictate. You have no moral issue nor attach no social stigma to users of mi

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Prohibition of alcohol would not work.  Prohibition of pot is not working.  Sex before marriage is not working  Staying married is not working 50% of the time.  STD's are running rampant.  It's about moral choice and it's impact not only on one self but others in society.  Freedom does not mean free for all.  We are reaping what we have sewn as a society and it is not getting better.  The answer is not to legalize it all...as in almost anything goes in the name of liberty.  There are God given constraints and when those are violated you have anarchy.  There have to be norms and mores based upon some objective standard or anything is right.....or wrong based upon opinion in the wind.  People who need to wind down or relax based upon alcohol, pot, street drugs or prescribed pills are using a coping crutch to survive.  There is a better way to live and you have heard it all before.  

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Is it moral to destroy lives in the guise of state enforced prohibitions where no malum in se exists?

 

No, in fact it is in itself evil by claiming state ownership of a person, the very thing many here rail against when it is their garden getting pissed on but all too willing to foist it on others.

 

What is the difference between jailing those that rebel by speaking out against the government and those that rebel against our personal beliefs?

If this is order perhaps anarchy is preferable.

 

The one result any moral person must avoid is hypocrisy, no one less than the son of man thought so also. It rots from within and hangs the millstone around all all necks.

Blind guides 

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See pooling's posts for the harm done to society by the legal use of alcohol.  Should we open the gates to more( pot, street drugs, etc)?  I'm not suggesting incarceration.  I am suggesting the problem (desire for intoxicants and sexual sin)  is a moral and spiritual one with man.  Opening the door in the name of freedom or alleged hypocrisy leads to anomie which serves no one in society.  For societies to exist there has to be some law and order as well as mores, etc.  No one is advocating making us prisoners of society.  We just can't function with a philosophy of "And every man did what was right in his own eyes".

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Prohibition of alcohol would not work. Prohibition of pot is not working. Sex before marriage is not working Staying married is not working 50% of the time. STD's are running rampant. It's about moral choice and it's impact not only on one self but others in society. Freedom does not mean free for all. We are reaping what we have sewn as a society and it is not getting better. The answer is not to legalize it all...as in almost anything goes in the name of liberty. There are God given constraints and when those are violated you have anarchy. There have to be norms and mores based upon some objective standard or anything is right.....or wrong based upon opinion in the wind. People who need to wind down or relax based upon alcohol, pot, street drugs or prescribed pills are using a coping crutch to survive. There is a better way to live and you have heard it all before.

I agree. This is why I don't really take much issue with Christians, as the core principles are beneficial to societies ability to exist peacefully. It also (apparently only sometimes) restricts people from accepting the state arbitrary dictate as a moral north.

I don't identify as Christians but I get the principles and recognize them as generally good. It's the not gritty details that bug me, but that's another thread.

On marriage and divorce, interesting thing is that while 50% of marriage fail, 50% of divorcees remarry their x. So 50% of divorces fail too! People really just want life to be too easy. Marriage works but takes work. Can't really think of much more to add. Although sometimes I find the concept really weird "I love you sooo much, let's bring the state into it". I'm common law with my wife of 16 years. We'd have not bothered with any involvement had it not been for tax relief.

Obviously with promiscuity and STD abstinence is the only 100% but it doesn't work in practice. Education and good old disgusting STD pics really deterred me from starting too early.

On the same sex issue. I don't really care about them, but there IS an agenda being pushed, and it's bullshit. Anybody with any grasp of cultural differences can see that beauty and attractions are largely effected by societal norms. We have gay designers attempting to blur gender lines by making boys clothes more feminine, so they can promote their sexual preferences. They cannot breed so they must recruit. It's very apparent speaking with most any of them that they look down on hetero and often humans in general. They are a culture of demise. I don't hate them, but I recognize they long term issues they present. The global depopulation agenda loves them, because it gets people to stop breeding and be ok with it.

But to the larger point, anytime we say "This should be banned". Or why are we allowing this.. if the activity posses no danger to any one other than the actor, you are imposing your will upon others.

With freedom comes the ability to abuse it. When that abuse directly effects others, then it's time to punish the actor. Not the innocents that haven't caused damage.

Is it moral to destroy lives in the guise of state enforced prohibitions where no malum in se exists?

 

No, in fact it is in itself evil by claiming state ownership of a person, the very thing many here rail against when it is their garden getting pissed on but all too willing to foist it on others.

 

What is the difference between jailing those that rebel by speaking out against the government and those that rebel against our personal beliefs?

If this is order perhaps anarchy is preferable.

 

The one result any moral person must avoid is hypocrisy, no one less than the son of man thought so also. It rots from within and hangs the millstone around all all necks.

Blind guides

And this post knocks it out of the park!

Bravo!

 

 

 

(Though I cannot see anarchy ever lasting. People always team up, for better or worse)

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See pooling's posts for the harm done to society by the legal use of alcohol. Should we open the gates to more( pot, street drugs, etc)? I'm not suggesting incarceration. I am suggesting the problem (desire for intoxicants and sexual sin) is a moral and spiritual one with man. Opening the door in the name of freedom or alleged hypocrisy leads to anomie which serves no one in society. For societies to exist there has to be some law and order as well as mores, etc. No one is advocating making us prisoners of society. We just can't function with a philosophy of "And every man did what was right in his own eyes".

From what I've researched compulsion to consume excessive substances is deeply physiological. There are quite a few studies on it that link it to genetics too.

 

We should all realize by now you cannot legislate morality. This is why socialism will never work, people will abuse the system, any system.

My concern is that we can instead destroy the black market, cripple the billion dollar annual cartels and redirect that money here to our citizens.

Funds for building a border wall, or equipping police, or health education programs. I don't see why we should keep losing a war in order to make the most vile people on earth billionaires.

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When one gets into the causes of addiction there is always a toxin involved.

 

Opiates are a toxin the body has to adjust to it's continued presence and that adjustment is itself the addiction.

Same goes for alcohol, it is a toxin, though far less so than the opiates this is countered by the large volume ingested and creates one of the worst of addictions.

 

Marijuana, like water, is not a toxin unless so large a quantity is ingested it begins to interfere with biological processes. Yes water can kill not just from drowning either.

If the body has a naturally built in method of metabolizing a substance then it is not a toxin.

These guys would outlaw water because someone with a fire hose can be dangerous. Fairly laughable yes? But there it is.

 

Guess what they check for in a drug screening?

The metabolizing agent that exists for exactly once purpose, cannabis. You are born with it. Why?

 

Of course there is the psychological factors but then those addictions are far more complex. One can become addicted to anything mentally, TV, games, sex, shooting...

Nothing wrong with any of them until the individual dives off the deep end of an empty pool.

 

Want to change usage? Use your damn words to convince if you can, if failing that dont send hired thugs to inflict violence on people.

I have no use for any that would do such a thing.

 

Thought we would have learned better but that seems a fool's hope now.

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Prohibition of alcohol would not work.  Prohibition of pot is not working.  Sex before marriage is not working  Staying married is not working 50% of the time.  STD's are running rampant.  It's about moral choice and it's impact not only on one self but others in society.  Freedom does not mean free for all.  We are reaping what we have sewn as a society and it is not getting better.  The answer is not to legalize it all...as in almost anything goes in the name of liberty.  There are God given constraints and when those are violated you have anarchy.  There have to be norms and mores based upon some objective standard or anything is right.....or wrong based upon opinion in the wind.  People who need to wind down or relax based upon alcohol, pot, street drugs or prescribed pills are using a coping crutch to survive.  There is a better way to live and you have heard it all before.

 

You have it right, just because alcohol is legal does not make it good for us.

Just because we we have freedoms to choose we need to choose wisely. The fact that using alcohol,marijuana or other drugs is personal and dose not hurt anyone else is just not true. Everything we do effects our world around us all the time.

To say we should legalise marijuana because we have lost the war does not mean the war stops. Compition with the drug cartels who are not taxed by the government will still be around.

All this stuff is not good for the body so why is life so bad that we have to use them? Pain management is one thing and drugs that when used correctly can improve the quality of a suffering persons life. But that is a physical pain what about the other pains of our lives.

Why do we have to numb our minds to hide the problems in our lives when we need clear minds to address and overcome lifes problems.

Alcohol even though it is legal coast this country time, money and life. So we want to legalize something else that cannot be any better because the other is legal, I do not get it

With rights come responsibility is all I am saying. Why do we need this stuff to be happy?

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Prohibition of alcohol would not work.  Prohibition of pot is not working.  Sex before marriage is not working  Staying married is not working 50% of the time.  STD's are running rampant.  It's about moral choice and it's impact not only on one self but others in society.  Freedom does not mean free for all.  We are reaping what we have sewn as a society and it is not getting better.  The answer is not to legalize it all...as in almost anything goes in the name of liberty.  There are God given constraints and when those are violated you have anarchy.  There have to be norms and mores based upon some objective standard or anything is right.....or wrong based upon opinion in the wind.  People who need to wind down or relax based upon alcohol, pot, street drugs or prescribed pills are using a coping crutch to survive.  There is a better way to live and you have heard it all before.

You have it right, just because alcohol is legal does not make it good for us.

Just because we we have freedoms to choose we need to choose wisely. The fact that using alcohol,marijuana or other drugs is personal and dose not hurt anyone else is just not true. Everything we do effects our world around us all the time.

To say we should legalise marijuana because we have lost the war does not mean the war stops. Compition with the drug cartels who are not taxed by the government will still be around.

All this stuff is not good for the body so why is life so bad that we have to use them? Pain management is one thing and drugs that when used correctly can improve the quality of a suffering persons life. But that is a physical pain what about the other pains of our lives.

Why do we have to numb our minds to hide the problems in our lives when we need clear minds to address and overcome lifes problems.

Alcohol even though it is legal coast this country time, money and life. So we want to legalize something else that cannot be any better because the other is legal, I do not get it

With rights come responsibility is all I am saying. Why do we need this stuff to be happy?

 

 EVERYTHING we do affects those around us. Each and every day we place a price on our heads and the heads of those around us. Friends, family, and strangers alike. Every time we step out the door or and commute to work we place our hands into the lives of strangers as well. We could all simply choose public transportation. That is statistically the safest form of ground transportation aside from pedestrian travel. Though for convenience we accept the risk of travel by personal vehicle. We accept that some people will abuse their 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th amendment rights to commit heinous acts. We accept alcohol because we discovered during prohibition that the violent black market it fueled wasn't worth sending otherwise innocent people to prison while bootleggers and the gang empires that they created bought their way out. Bribed our politicians. law enforcement and became millionaires form money soaked in the blood of friends and neighbors. Today the cartels are much more violent, and farther reaching. They have bought the Mexican special forces (Los Zetas), our DEA bargains with Sinola... history is repeating it's self. What DID work before was repeal of the 18th. 

 This is NO different.  I completely understand your sediments on attempting to eliminate one less evil from our world. However you are effectively attempting to legislate morality. It simply doesn't work, never has. I'm suggesting trading an inevitable great evil, for a lesser one: abuse of freedom.I'm suggesting mitigation of an inevitability. I am in NO WAY advocating that people SHOULD smoke.  I'm just accepting the reality of human nature is a tide you cannot fight, but you can redirect.  

 Research on pot shows that it IS significantly less destructive to the individual's health. There is no liver damage,no kidney, no esophageal destruction, no gastrointestinal damage.  Are it's effect as intoxicating as alcohol? For all intents and purposes: yes. Though it doesn't have the same effect on everybody, there is a large enough portion that are very distracted by it to make prohibiting it's use while in operating vehicles, equipment etc. an advisable act.

 

As to WHY humans have an inclination to abuse substance...this is indeed a deep issue that cannot be covered in a few paragraphs as countless scholars have attempted to explain it." Common sense" is defined as that which is derived from experience and not through academic study. Since every single one of us have vastly different lives and experiences, simple "common sense" cannot be applied to something that is so integral to human nature.

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I lost my little brother to pot and all your study's mean nothing to me.

He died At the age of 54 it turned his lungs and brain to mush.

I have been around my share of death in my 63 years. Its smells and sounds you can never get out of your mind.

Having to watch helpless his downward dive of health and mind was more than I could bear. It destroyed my 93 year old mother, she spent every Last dime she had to save him.

For every study their is another study.

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I lost my little brother to pot and all your study's mean nothing to me.

He died At the age of 54 it turned his lungs and brain to mush.

I have been around my share of death in my 63 years. Its smells and sounds you can never get out of your mind.

Having to watch helpless his downward dive of health and mind was more than I could bear. It destroyed my 93 year old mother, she spent every Last dime she had to save him.

For every study their is another study.

That's terrible to hear. I'm very sorry for your loss. I know what it's like to have family members die of cancer.

My mother to esophageal cancer, aunt to pancreatic cancer, grand mother to lung cancer, cousin of skin cancer, another to bone marrow cancer. My father survived bladder cancer.

There are a million causes of cancer. Sunlight,pesticides, artificial sweeteners, cellar radiation (as I type this on my phone) many of the medicine we take have ingredients that are known to cause cancer, even the fluoride in water has been linked to bone cancer. How do we avoid it? Pot is even prescribed for cancer patients.

Yes for ever study there is another study. I like to think that if we take time to read about them and objectively consider the study, who funded it, what the sample selection was, was the scientific method applied to results, you can tell b.s from genuine data.

I understand your grief. So I'm not going to push, but consider that for everybody killed with a gun, there's some family members screaming to ban them.

 

Thank you for taking time to write, such a heartfelt reply

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I lost my little brother to pot and all your study's mean nothing to me.

He died At the age of 54 it turned his lungs and brain to mush.

I have been around my share of death in my 63 years. Its smells and sounds you can never get out of your mind.

Having to watch helpless his downward dive of health and mind was more than I could bear. It destroyed my 93 year old mother, she spent every Last dime she had to save him.

For every study their is another study.

That's terrible to hear. I'm very sorry for your loss. I know what it's like to have family members die of cancer.

My mother to esophageal cancer, aunt to pancreatic cancer, grand mother to lung cancer, cousin of skin cancer, another to bone marrow cancer. My father survived bladder cancer.

There are a million causes of cancer. Sunlight,pesticides, artificial sweeteners, cellar radiation (as I type this on my phone) many of the medicine we take have ingredients that are known to cause cancer, even the fluoride in water has been linked to bone cancer. How do we avoid it? Pot is even prescribed for cancer patients.

Yes for ever study there is another study. I like to think that if we take time to read about them and objectively consider the study, who funded it, what the sample selection was, was the scientific method applied to results, you can tell b.s from genuine data.

I understand your grief. So I'm not going to push, but consider that for everybody killed with a gun, there's some family members screaming to ban them.

 

Thank you for taking time to write, such a heartfelt reply

 

 

Too much. I fixed it for you. No one needs that lecture when they've been trough it. To give it is very insensitive being an asshole.

Edited by YOT
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No you lost your brother to poor decisions and choices made in his life, possibly caused in part from having to deal with the hard criminal element in the first place due to this medieval prohibition.

 

Ive lost people to this insanity also but not once did grass kill anyone.

What did kill them was being in the "wrong crowd" this whole system created in the first place.

 

Call me asshole if it makes you feel better but that's water off a duck's back, truth matters more than feelings.

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I lost my little brother to pot and all your study's mean nothing to me.

He died At the age of 54 it turned his lungs and brain to mush.

I have been around my share of death in my 63 years. Its smells and sounds you can never get out of your mind.

Having to watch helpless his downward dive of health and mind was more than I could bear. It destroyed my 93 year old mother, she spent every Last dime she had to save him.

For every study their is another study.

That's terrible to hear. I'm very sorry for your loss. I know what it's like to have family members die of cancer.

My mother to esophageal cancer, aunt to pancreatic cancer, grand mother to lung cancer, cousin of skin cancer, another to bone marrow cancer. My father survived bladder cancer.

There are a million causes of cancer. Sunlight,pesticides, artificial sweeteners, cellar radiation (as I type this on my phone) many of the medicine we take have ingredients that are known to cause cancer, even the fluoride in water has been linked to bone cancer. How do we avoid it? Pot is even prescribed for cancer patients.

Yes for ever study there is another study. I like to think that if we take time to read about them and objectively consider the study, who funded it, what the sample selection was, was the scientific method applied to results, you can tell b.s from genuine data.

I understand your grief. So I'm not going to push, but consider that for everybody killed with a gun, there's some family members screaming to ban them.

 

Thank you for taking time to write, such a heartfelt reply

Too much. I fixed it for you. No one needs that lecture when they've been trough it. To give it is very insensitive being an asshole.

Then what do you call sobbing patents that beg for legislation?
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Look up the medical studies that Israel started in 1964, dispensing of pot started in the 21 century. They provide pot to the people requiring a medical solution provided by this plant. Take a few minutes to read about the medicinal uses of the plant. Israeli law prohibits the non-medical use of pot...I believe big pharma along with the cartels financial incentives - silver or lead - drive information in our country. I don't pretend to understand depriving the folks of this medication in the United States,yea some states dispense for medical reasons, still illegal for states to break federal laws...Take a look and see what the Israeli scientists have discovered.

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Too much. I fixed it for you. No one needs that lecture when they've been trough it. To give it is very insensitive being an asshole.

 

 

To be honest, I feel that your occupation leaves you unable to participate in this discussion with an open mind. There is a clear conflict of interest present, which has resulted in you providing little more than ad hominem attacks. 

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Too much. I fixed it for you. No one needs that lecture when they've been trough it. To give it is very insensitive being an asshole.

 

 

To be honest, I feel that your occupation leaves you unable to participate in this discussion with an open mind. There is a clear conflict of interest present, which has resulted in you providing little more than ad hominem attacks. 

 

Lock somebody in a cage with animals, then act surprised when they act like an animal..........

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Too much. I fixed it for you. No one needs that lecture when they've been trough it. To give it is very insensitive being an asshole.

 

 

To be honest, I feel that your occupation leaves you unable to participate in this discussion with an open mind. There is a clear conflict of interest present, which has resulted in you providing little more than ad hominem attacks. 

 

Lock somebody in a cage with animals, then act surprised when they act like an animal..........

 

 

 

306955_3620325190712_1859602992_n.jpg

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Just another pot and alcohol study. Good science will tear into the methodology, data and conclusions. Eventually better and more accurate data and conclusions testable by further investigations and experimentation will arrive. This will include whatever directions or conclusions that are reached, be what they may. This is just another small scientific step to gain knowledge. Pick your poison.

 

Or ... just another hack bad political science scam paid for by whomever for whatever pre arranged conclusion? We do not know yet. It might be enlightening to just follow the bucks. Who paid for the study? What is their track record. We might find this study is bogus. We also might find that this study is right on good science. We do not know yet. That is the Science Question. We do not know.

As long as it is a schedule 1 narcotic very little research will be done, as it is currently viewed to have no actual medical value. I heard tale that they are in talks to reclassify it so that viable and indepth research can be done on it to see if all the claims are true and so that it can be used as a treatment for ailments that it does have a positive impact on.

 

It is not schedule 1. It is schedule 3.

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Too much. I fixed it for you. No one needs that lecture when they've been trough it. To give it is very insensitive being an asshole.

 

To be honest, I feel that your occupation leaves you unable to participate in this discussion with an open mind. There is a clear conflict of interest present, which has resulted in you providing little more than ad hominem attacks.

Lock somebody in a cage with animals, then act surprised when they act like an animal..........

 

306955_3620325190712_1859602992_n.jpg

Im not calling YOU an animal YOT, I mean the prisoners in general. I can't imagine any other way to survive in there. Not like you can avoid people.
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How about a Thank You! It takes a special type of person to do what YOT does.

I thank Him,we all should.

Look! if you want to smoke grass at the mall I do not give a rats rear end . If the law gets changed and makes it legal okay.

As if laws mean anything any more. While we are at it lets open the boarders up and legalize all the ones who broke all those laws, its the same argument (if the majority want it is should be so)right.

You can list report after report about how safe pot is, how it will help people but lets be honest for once here.

The real reason is that you want to be stoned, what other reason is there.

As for legalizing it for medicine that is not needed as the FDA always takes care of that side.

Smoke your grass, pot what ever but lighten up and stop being an ass

Edited by jerry52
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How about a Thank You! It takes a special type of person to do what YOT does.

I thank Him,we all should.

Look! if you want to smoke grass at the mall I do not give a rats rear end . If the law gets changed and makes it legal okay.

As if laws mean anything any more. While we are at it lets open the boarders up and legalize all the ones who broke all those laws, its the same argument (if the majority want it is should be so)right.

You can list report after report about how safe pot is, how it will help people but lets be honest for once here.

The real reason is that you want to be stoned, what other reason is there.

As for legalizing it for medicine that is not needed as the FDA always takes care of that side.

Smoke your grass, pot what ever but lighten up and stop being an ass

I thank everybody who goes in and does their job to support themselves and their loved ones. I supply the fire suppression for multi billion dollar refineries and oil platforms that make our modern life possible, and with out my work a small fire could eventually result in a larger event that causes casualties in the ten of thousands, but I'm not demanding special thanks.. my pay check suffices. I choose this job, nobody twisted my arm.  So whatever to that. No offense to anybody and their profession, we're all volunteers.

I don't think people should be smoking it outside prescribed areas. I don't even like people "vaping" near me. It's bullshit. People can exercise that right where others are not directly exposed to it. It's that simple. Just like you can drink a beer in public without spraying it in people face...which brings me to the following. 

It's not about majority rules, it's about preserving ones  right to do what they wish with the one thing they should truly be sole owner of :their body. Attempting to prevent them from being free to do so, simply because you believe it's bad for them and at one time had more people who believed it was a lot worse than it is use that majority leverage to ROB those other individuals of the freedom to do what they choose with their own body. You've got this completely backwards.

 The "real reasons" I want it legalized are:

1: It's no ones right to tell a man what he can do with his own body

2: It's a multi-billion dollar industry that the american people should benefit from in the form of whatever public service you can imagine.

3: We're putting people in prison for plants and giving pedophiles probation... (in the name of public safety!) 

4: It will strike a devastating blow to violent cartels that murder and kill innocent people by the thousands each year.

5: Those same cartels use that money to influence our laws

6: It has literally thousands of industrial and textile applications

7: Because police departments around the country are literally using asset forfeiture as part of their budgeting (auctioning goods confiscated from people who haven't gone to trial)

8: Because "no-knock" warrants enforcing drug laws have cost too man LEO's their lives

9:The black market creates secondary illegal markets, and violence.

10: Controlling production and distribution will limit it's availability to minors 

11: Cutting off that black market, which removes power from cartels will lessen their influence in Mexico and reduce the number of people fleeing to the US to escape the violence.

Edited by poolingmyignorance
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That's a reasonable list.

 

Not sure why my job or anyone else's came into this conversation except by some stupid remarks by someone with ran"dumb" thoughts, trying to make funnys with someone he doesn't have a clue about. Not once in this thread have I given any indication of my position, for or against, on the usage of cannabis, until this very reply. Still, all I'm saying is that is a good list.

 

Ignorance, I really don't give a flying rats ass about what you do and how important you are to the world. Your righteous indignation is sickening.

 

The meat was delicious and was shared with a crew of 12 of the best men I know, without any alcohol or cannabis at the table.

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That's a reasonable list.

 

Not sure why my job or anyone else's came into this conversation except by some stupid remarks by someone with ran"dumb" thoughts, trying to make funnys with someone he doesn't have a clue about. Not once in this thread have I given any indication of my position, for or against, on the usage of cannabis, until this very reply. Still, all I'm saying is that is a good list.

 

Ignorance, I really don't give a flying rats ass about what you do and how important you are to the world. Your righteous indignation is sickening.

 

The meat was delicious and was shared with a crew of 12 of the best men I know, without any alcohol or cannabis at the table.

Okay to bring you up to speed:

Random said "To be honest, I feel that your occupation leaves you unable to participate in this discussion with an open mind. There is a clear conflict of interest present, which has resulted in you providing little more than ad hominem attacks. "  

That and Jerry's response, was the only reason I mentioned my profession. (Unrelated to this thread really: I always see all these "Lets thanks '______' for the hard work they do to make our lives better. I find it silly)

 

We've all been pretty abrasive and opinionated on this thread.. the fact we're all still conversing and didn't opt for the "ignore" button, to me at least says a lot about the desire to understand each others point of view. 

I've NEVER been good at conflict resolution. Actually I've always enjoyed a good debate. I think I identify with the bottom quote on your signature a little more than most people are willing to. 

I've always appreciated you'rs and Jims input and now Jerry is engaged in more than just snide response,.. to me that's what it's all about.

 

Enjoy your weekend guys. Maybe next time we can talk about guns for a change!  

 

 

 

 

 

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