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[Eric Pate 478]

Hey guys. Took a much needed break from the Forum for a little while. Been almost two years since I logged in. I see that its pretty much the same guys hanging out, some with a few thousand more posts, lol. And sure enough, a thread on double stack mags first thing. Anyways, I just stopped by to show you guys the makeover I had done to my S17. I know yall appreciate this sort of thing and what with the flood of aftermarket bolt-on upgrades in recent years, I know I like seeing something original and well executed.

 

This is what it looked like before. Pretty much a standard Tromix S-17.

 

 

The funky triggerguard and inability to use standard AK grips has gradually become... distracting to me. Nothing against Tony, he does amazing work and this has been one of the most reliable weapons I've owned; not a common trait in mag-fed gas-operated 8" shotguns!

 

I had some inspiration for a much sleeker minimalist build from parts I collected at Knob Creek, so I collaborated with Leland at Sierra Ordnance Co. to adapt a VZ-58 folding stock and AMD-65 handguards.

 

 

He also replaced the triggerguard with the standard AK-type and removed the Tromix-style PG post and nut with the standard AK T-nut.

 

 

Didn't really require too much fitting work actually. Refinished with cerakote over park.

 

It gained just a little bit of weight over the plastic stock and handguards.
feelsgoodmang.gif

 

 

LOP is 13.5" and folded OAL is 18.5".   I could almost holster this thing.

[forsaken352 235]

Wow, that is really cool. Good job creating something unique.

[Hawk451 2,230]

Welcome back!

 

That is one sleek & businesslike looking Saiga, I like.

[YOT 3,742]

Welcome back.

 

That thing looks like it would be a beast to shoot!

[ChileRelleno 7,070]

Welcome back,

that looks great, tasteful and refined.

[Spacehog 2,218]

Very unique..I like it. I just need an X-ray of the internals now in order to give it a clean bill of health.

[kresk 10,063]

Hey--howarya?

[Eric Pate 478]

Doing well thanks. Went through a lot of life changes in the past couple of years. Took me a bit to get back on my feet. Now I'm playing with guns again and having a great time.

 

Thanks for the kind words guys. And yes... shooting it is not for the faint of heart.

[armalite_ar50 86]

Great to see ya back out.

Missed ya from a bunch of the boards.

 

And thanks Distal you just sealed the deal with what I'm gonna do for a front handguard on my 12 inch SBS.

that AMD65 fore grip got the wifes approval.

 

Rich

[saltydecimator 482]

Looks good! Any note specifics on how the stock and handguard mount up?

[Eric Pate 478]

Stock was modded by welding up the huge VZ-58 stock screw hole and drilling it to ACE hole pattern. Handguard just needed the edges trimmed to fit around the gas block then a hole drilled for the HG screw. He may have relieved the inside a bit, haven't checked. He did clean up the front for aesthetics, though not strictly necessary.

[Mocephus 1]

Looks amazing. Is it still fun to shoot or does it stomp you too much?

[Eric Pate 478]

Birdshot and target loads are still as tame as ever. Buckshot and slugs are a bit of a wild ride though. Not too bad as long as you don't go for a tight cheekweld. The steel buttplate doesn't particularly bother me. I made it through a box of shells before the handguard started to warm up.

 

I will be metering this combo today so it should be interesting to see some actual dB reduction numbers on the old CGW Mitigator.

 

Believe it or not, I actually got this thing to run the Federal Subsonic shotshells by turning the gas up to 3 and dropping in a reduced power recoil spring. Weak ejection but functions 100% from the shoulder. I was able to induce some ejection failures by firing one handed and limpwristed. Still runs the bulk pack target loads in this configuration without excessive recoil.

winninngg.jpg

[forsaken352 235]

Want to do me a favor? Think ya could get basically the same photo as above with the suppressor, but with the stock un-folded so I can use it as my new desktop background? 

 

Yeah...I like it that much.

[Eric Pate 478]

Sure, why not?

 

[armalite_ar50 86]

So how's the can sound with it?

 

I checked them out.

I like the price but not the length at 12 inches.

 

that would bring me to 22 inches just in barrel with my 12 inch gun.

 

Someone could avoid a extra stamp though with a S17 gun like yours with that perm. attached, and still maintain a decent OAL.

 

Rich

[forsaken352 235]

Sure, why not?

 

Thanks! Looks great!

[ChileRelleno 7,070]

Sure, why not?

 

Wallpaper.jpg

That is badass.

[gunfun 3,930]

So how's the can sound with it?

 

I checked them out.

I like the price but not the length at 12 inches.

 

that would bring me to 22 inches just in barrel with my 12 inch gun.

 

Someone could avoid a extra stamp though with a S17 gun like yours with that perm. attached, and still maintain a decent OAL.

 

Rich

 

You can do about the same with the salvo and not use all the pieces. It can be assembled in a short and a long format.

[Eric Pate 478]

So how's the can sound with it?

 

I checked them out.

I like the price but not the length at 12 inches.

 

that would bring me to 22 inches just in barrel with my 12 inch gun.

 

Someone could avoid a extra stamp though with a S17 gun like yours with that perm. attached, and still maintain a decent OAL.

 

Rich

 

Lol, it sounds terrible.

 

J/K, not really. Well, kinda. I'll try to explain:

It does not suppress to the degree that your average suppressor is capable of in most other calibers. Keep in mind that an 8" 12 gauge is excessively loud by any standard, so you're only going to get so much performance no matter what. It does an excellent job of knocking off the blast and concussion, as one would expect. It does not do an appreciable job of taking the measurable decibel levels down any significant degree. For example, the unsuppressed reading came in at 165dB, and with the can attached we were only getting readings in the mid 150's. Not terribly impressive by-the-numbers, but anyone who does metering will tell you there is more to it than that. The tone was noticeably lower and lacked the typical sharp crack. Use of a can like this typically causes the sound levels to drop off more quickly as one moves away from the shooter as well. So while the numbers are still high at the shooters position, it will (theoretically) get progressively quieter as one moves away from the shooter. There should also (again, theoretically) be almost no muzzle flash, but I have not tried night shooting to verify.

 

IMO, the problem with shotgun cans is the excessive volume of gas. With centerfire rifles, its all about handling crazy high muzzle pressure. But I think a shotgun creates waaay more volume of gas (albeit at a lower pressure) than a reasonably sized tube can handle. I believe one could make a great full-sized integral if one built the gun around it.

 

BTW, the above can is 10 inches in length and brings my 8" gun up to approximately the same length as my 18" perm'd gun. A single-stamp gun could be done with a perm'd tube, but I'm thinking I actually appreciate the "shortness" I'm getting out of the SBS more than the "hushness" I'm getting out of the can. YMMV.

 

Size comparison:

 

Overall, I'd say "Mitigator" is a pretty fair name. It does noticeably suppress the report at the shooters ear, but it sure won't make your gun quiet. Forget going without ear protection.

You can do about the same with the salvo and not use all the pieces. It can be assembled in a short and a long format.

 

Funny thing is; when I got in on the preorder for this thing, Tom was intending to make this a modular can similar to how the Salvo is made. He never could get it approved by ATF-FTB. Odd how they are now allowing all of these modular cans we're currently seeing on the market.

[armalite_ar50 86]

Thanks Distal.

their sight says 12 inches OAL

 

Gun Fun have you seen the price of the Salvo?

that's what made me check into Distals can.

 

I had thought's of doing a integrated can on my gun and making it 18.5 but like you I wanted it short but still retain the full power of a 12 G.

 

When reading the SBS tech thread getting ready to chop mine I kept going back to the 12-14 inch tests the Coast Guard had on file.

 

Also talked to my Brother in Law who is a Costie lifer and he did in fact confirm that the shotguns are all 14 inch.

Didn't know about the study but he's got 3 years left to retire, went from boarding drug boats to Capt. of a boat after 22 years in.

So I figured he was the guy to ask about barrel length.

 

I got a correction sheet out to the BATFE since I reg. the S12 at 8 inches. but between that study and seeing I could do the 12 inch model without sending it out.

It was a no brainer.

 

And I do understand how cans work having 4 of them.

 Seems your "moderator" does serve a purpose. also remember Distal Radius decibel reading are exponential.

Angle and distance will play a great factor in a can like that.

 

Rich

[gunfun 3,930]

 

Funny thing is; when I got in on the preorder for this thing, Tom was intending to make this a modular can similar to how the Salvo is made. He never could get it approved by ATF-FTB. Odd how they are now allowing all of these modular cans we're currently seeing on the market.

You can do about the same with the salvo and not use all the pieces. It can be assembled in a short and a long format.

 

 

 

i remember that. He really got shafted on that deal. Maybe they wanted to hurt him over the registered oil filter adapters.

[Eric Pate 478]

Well it is a well known and documented fact that if you irritate the alphabet gang, they will irritate you right back.

 

Armalite, check into the XCaliber suppressor. It has an indexable front sight and reports indicate slightly better reduction numbers than the Salvo. Its rated for 20ga too.

 

Oh and the 10" measurement on the Mitigator is the added length.

[gunfun 3,930]

Well it is a well known and documented fact that if you irritate the alphabet gang, they will irritate you right back.

 

Armalite, check into the XCaliber suppressor. It has an indexable front sight and reports indicate slightly better reduction numbers than the Salvo. Its rated for 20ga too.

 

Oh and the 10" measurement on the Mitigator is the added length.

 

Interesting. That one is new to me. It says with shot cup. I wonder if they warrant it for use with slugs? I would do buckshot in shotcups too.

[jeremiahisnaked 64]

https://youtu.be/DvOHbxBAEN8

Looks great man!

[BobAsh 582]

Looks good man.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Try some Federal Top Gun with that can. The Salvo 12 is absolutely hearing safe with Top Gun coming out of a 13.5" barrel. At least with that ammo in an 8" barrel you can eliminate sonic crack and get down to how well the can is suppressing the explosion.

[Eric Pate 478]

Looks good man.

Thanks Bob, I really appreciate it. You guys made me a great base gun to build on! Its been dead-nuts reliable since day one.

 

Try some Federal Top Gun with that can. The Salvo 12 is absolutely hearing safe with Top Gun coming out of a 13.5" barrel. At least with that ammo in an 8" barrel you can eliminate sonic crack and get down to how well the can is suppressing the explosion.

I've been running these loads here. Required the reduced power recoil spring and gas system set to "3". They are definitely subsonic out of my barrel.

Nowhere near hearing safe unfortunately. I'd like to play around with a Saiga-adapter-equipped Salvo sometime.

 

The only other thing I can do to increase suppression is to run the can wet, which is not under warranty but works fairly well anyway. I don't have any dB numbers for that though.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Looks like that can is just over 1/2 the price of the Salvo. Have you tried it out in a big open area? Maybe it adds some really noticeable benefit in that situation.

 

 

 

An aside, continually perpetrating this type of ignorance really drives me crazy. You would think someone making their living in the firearms industry for so long would use the appropriate term.

 

"THIS IS A REGISTERED CLASS 3 ITEM....READ BEFORE PURCHASING...." from Cadiz site

 

"Class 3" is a special occupational tax that a type 01 FFL pays yearly to deal in NFA regulated items. Where will it end? I can see someone who doesn't own, manufacture, or deal NFA items not knowing any better, but this is ridiculous.

Edited August 3, 2016 by evlblkwpnz

[gunfun 3,930]

Right the correct term is a registered "NFA Title II Firearm."