25 replies to this topic

[Dante]

Has anyone shot both a M17S and a Steyr Aug of the same barrel legnth? I can consistantly find M17S's for around $500 on www.gunsamerica.com, but Augs are around $4000(ouch!). The Aug is better and looks cooler, but how MUCH better. I bet not $3500 better, I could be wrong though. It could be possible to alter the M17S to look like an Aug and even accept Aug mags (for ultimate look alike), but that might prove difficult. Any feedback would be good, except feedback that has nothing to do with these rifles.

[edman99]

Here is a link to a shop which does enhancement work Bushmaster M17s:

http://www.kurtskust...134.htm#image_1

Hope this helps:
ed

[KySoldier]

I saw the bullpup for sale recently and almost got it but opted for the real armalite ar-15 since the bullpup rifle can not be converted to a regular design like say a mini-14 in a bullpup stock. Of course I'd still like to have one, but I don't think my AR drum would work in it comfortably.

The price difference I'm sure is increased (inflated) artificially by the ban on Augs while the M17S is still manufactured locally.

[BattleRifleG3]

Note that the AUGs use a lot of plastic. More plastic than I'd be comforetable with. Like the hammer, I think.

The Bush Bullpup is based on the reliable AR-18/180 that has been the base for many rifles that don't give it any credit. The HK G36 uses its gas system, as do a many others.

My main deterrent from the Bushpup was weight. Overall weight, and butt weight. I prefer barrel heavy to butt heavy if the choice must be made. It should lean forward with one hand on the grip, not back.

If this is not a deterrent to you, go for it.

Note that long squishy triggers are generally inherent to the bullpup design.

[Dante]

I don't think synthetics is neccessarily a bad thing, unless the plastic is weak. Just look at the glock and springfield xd they have alot of plastic. I would rather get almost anything than a mini 14 they suck. I have never heard of anyone getting better than 4 moa without dumping hundreds into the thing (harmonic stabilizer,etc), but if you spent the same money accurizing another gun, that is inherently accurate, you would get a much more accurate finished product. What I wish is that someone would make a civilian version of the P90 in .223 or 5.45x39. Due to import restrictions, it would be almost impossible unless a domestic manufacturer made one.

The original is a 20" overal gun with 10" barrel 50 round magazine using the deadly 5.7x28 (this ammo is for LEO it can go through multiple layers of kevlar)

Attached Files

•  p90.jpg   8.46K   6 downloads

Edited by Dante, 10 May 2004 - 05:01 PM.

[Tengu]

Dante:

Wtf kinda gun izzat in the pic? I like guns that look like a gun and not a jack from a Yugo.

[Dante]

Dante:

Wtf kinda gun izzat in the pic? I like guns that look like a gun and not a jack from a Yugo.

Like I said before, that is a P90. That gun will put most small-medium caliber semi-autos to shame. This is waaay better than a mp5. It uses special LEO ammo that can go through many layers of kevlar. This gun has a wierd look becuase it is utalitarian in design. They weren't going for a classic rifle look, but more functional.

[DoubleD]

I would definately buy a civvy version of the p90.

Back to the orig thread: one good thing about augs is that you can switch them from right handed to left handed easily.

(This is also nice about the p90, which is basically ambidextrous)

They finally be 'spectin our leftie authority!

[swon]

The P90 is made by FN. They have a new manufacturing plant in Columbia, South Carolina. They could make the P90 in that plant, they might already be making them there for all I know.

The AUG is vastly superior to the Bushmaster M17S. The Germans make the best stuff. I know, I know, the AUG is made in Austria. Same, same! That's why Glocks are so great!
swon

[unbridled_rage]

FN has in fact released a civy version of the P90 as well as the P2000 which has a shorter barrel and a five round spent brass tube, that will auto open and drop out the casings if firing is continued. With the shorter barrel it does require a pistol permit for purchase. They definately took it to the next level with the 2000. I will be adding one to my collection shortly.

[unbridled_rage]

The P90 is made by FN. They have a new manufacturing plant in Columbia, South Carolina. They could make the P90 in that plant, they might already be making them there for all I know.

The AUG is vastly superior to the Bushmaster M17S. The Germans make the best stuff. I know, I know, the AUG is made in Austria. Same, same! That's why Glocks are so great!
swon

B.M.I. originally created the M17s in Australia for the military but was turned down when they elected to go with the Steyr Aug, I wouldn't say it is vastly superior. Less kinks yes, maybe but when you discontinue production on a rifle there is rarely follow up R&D performed. The M17s has some of its own interesting quirks that make it an awsome rifle. For instance I have a pre ban M17s and by slipping out the rear pin it become full auto.

As for Germans making the best stuff I would take a 1911 over a glock any day. Too blocky and bad accuracy at long ranges.

[Azrial]

I had an M17 and I am sorry I sold it. It was a neat little bullpup and ran well. It did not like some of the Wolf, but other then that I never had any problems with it. Mine worked fine with either a BetaMag or a MGW drum.

[unbridled_rage]

Yeah, I almost sold mine today but priced out what it was going for and decided it would be a lot better to just start tricking it out. I'll post a picture when all the mods are completed

[SuA]

FN has in fact released a civy version of the P90 as well as the P2000 which has a shorter barrel and a five round spent brass tube, that will auto open and drop out the casings if firing is continued. With the shorter barrel it does require a pistol permit for purchase. They definately took it to the next level with the 2000. I will be adding one to my collection shortly.

euhm, i take it you're talking about the PS90, which is the civilian semi-auto model of the P90 and the FS2000, which is the civilian semi-auto version of the F2000.

the PS90 has by default a long barrel. about twice as long as the P90. in states where it is allowed however you can fit a smaller barrel, same length as the P90.

for the FS2000, the barrel is also a tad longer than the F2000. you could hack it down a little and recrown, but i don't see why.

[unbridled_rage]

FN has in fact released a civy version of the P90 as well as the P2000 which has a shorter barrel and a five round spent brass tube, that will auto open and drop out the casings if firing is continued. With the shorter barrel it does require a pistol permit for purchase. They definately took it to the next level with the 2000. I will be adding one to my collection shortly.

euhm, i take it you're talking about the PS90, which is the civilian semi-auto model of the P90 and the FS2000, which is the civilian semi-auto version of the F2000.

the PS90 has by default a long barrel. about twice as long as the P90. in states where it is allowed however you can fit a smaller barrel, same length as the P90.

for the FS2000, the barrel is also a tad longer than the F2000. you could hack it down a little and recrown, but i don't see why.

Its entirely possible it could have been the PS90 but I don't recall it being called so. The one I'm referring to was just long enough to be considered a rifle and could be purchased in either semi auto or automatic fire. I really couldn't tell you teh specs on either of them never really looked into much beyond the gun counter. The 2000 just looks a lot sleeker to me and not like something out of a alien movie. As far as cutting the barrel down I don't see why you would do that either. I just know that the one they showed me required a pistol permit to buy because the barrel was short enough to qualify it to be a handgun.

[1911]

I own both the Steyr AUG (paid $972 new) and the FN PS-90. My only suggestion would be to buy the absolute best you can when you can and don't look back. I have been collecting weapons of various sorts for 35 years and regret very few purchases. I have regretted a few sales; like my 8 3/8" Model 29 and my P-08 Luger with matching serial numbers. I quit selling twenty years ago and have only recently sold a few. Sorry for the ramble.

1911

[SuA]

Its entirely possible it could have been the PS90 but I don't recall it being called so. The one I'm referring to was just long enough to be considered a rifle and could be purchased in either semi auto or automatic fire. I really couldn't tell you teh specs on either of them never really looked into much beyond the gun counter. The 2000 just looks a lot sleeker to me and not like something out of a alien movie. As far as cutting the barrel down I don't see why you would do that either. I just know that the one they showed me required a pistol permit to buy because the barrel was short enough to qualify it to be a handgun.

i think you're totally mixing two different things together.

the smallest produced barrel on an F2000 is 40cm (+-15.5inch), the civilian FS2000 is over 17 inches.

the longer barreled PS90 is 16 inches, the short barreled PS90 or the P90 are 10 inch.

[unbridled_rage]

Its entirely possible it could have been the PS90 but I don't recall it being called so. The one I'm referring to was just long enough to be considered a rifle and could be purchased in either semi auto or automatic fire. I really couldn't tell you teh specs on either of them never really looked into much beyond the gun counter. The 2000 just looks a lot sleeker to me and not like something out of a alien movie. As far as cutting the barrel down I don't see why you would do that either. I just know that the one they showed me required a pistol permit to buy because the barrel was short enough to qualify it to be a handgun.

i think you're totally mixing two different things together.

the smallest produced barrel on an F2000 is 40cm (+-15.5inch), the civilian FS2000 is over 17 inches.

the longer barreled PS90 is 16 inches, the short barreled PS90 or the P90 are 10 inch.

All I know is they had this one tagged as a a 2000 and it had a barrel that couldn't have been over tweleve inches long, and they couldn't legally sell it unless you had a pistol permit. That's all I really have to go on. I know I'm not mixing that with anything else it's the only one I keep looking at. I don't know if they changed the specs on the models they are releasing or whatever, but this is definately a 2000 with an extremely short barrel I mean it barely makes it past the fore stock, for lack of a better term, before terminating into a muzzle break.

[SuA]

All I know is they had this one tagged as a a 2000 and it had a barrel that couldn't have been over tweleve inches long, and they couldn't legally sell it unless you had a pistol permit. That's all I really have to go on. I know I'm not mixing that with anything else it's the only one I keep looking at. I don't know if they changed the specs on the models they are releasing or whatever, but this is definately a 2000 with an extremely short barrel I mean it barely makes it past the fore stock, for lack of a better term, before terminating into a muzzle break.

both are bullpups, dude. even if the barrel "barely makes it past the furniture", it's still over 15 inches long...

picture attached is a FS2000 with a 17 inch barrel.

i dont think you can hack down a F2000/FS2000 shorter than 14 inch (or you'd be INSIDE the furniture).

Attached Files

•  FN_FS2000_0.jpg   223.65K   3 downloads

[unbridled_rage]

All I know is they had this one tagged as a a 2000 and it had a barrel that couldn't have been over tweleve inches long, and they couldn't legally sell it unless you had a pistol permit. That's all I really have to go on. I know I'm not mixing that with anything else it's the only one I keep looking at. I don't know if they changed the specs on the models they are releasing or whatever, but this is definately a 2000 with an extremely short barrel I mean it barely makes it past the fore stock, for lack of a better term, before terminating into a muzzle break.

both are bullpups, dude. even if the barrel "barely makes it past the furniture", it's still over 15 inches long...

picture attached is a FS2000 with a 17 inch barrel.

i dont think you can hack down a F2000/FS2000 shorter than 14 inch (or you'd be INSIDE the furniture).

I understand both are bullpups but the one that I have been looking at is shorter than that one. where the forestock ends is literally right where the muzzlebreak is. there isn't any exposed barrel beyond enough to thread the muzzel break on to.

[unbridled_rage]

All I know is they had this one tagged as a a 2000 and it had a barrel that couldn't have been over tweleve inches long, and they couldn't legally sell it unless you had a pistol permit. That's all I really have to go on. I know I'm not mixing that with anything else it's the only one I keep looking at. I don't know if they changed the specs on the models they are releasing or whatever, but this is definately a 2000 with an extremely short barrel I mean it barely makes it past the fore stock, for lack of a better term, before terminating into a muzzle break.

both are bullpups, dude. even if the barrel "barely makes it past the furniture", it's still over 15 inches long...

picture attached is a FS2000 with a 17 inch barrel.

i dont think you can hack down a F2000/FS2000 shorter than 14 inch (or you'd be INSIDE the furniture).

I understand both are bullpups but the one that I have been looking at is shorter than that one. where the forestock ends is literally right where the muzzlebreak is. there isn't any exposed barrel beyond enough to thread the muzzel break on to.

I could be longer than I thought I don't really know. I don't generally walk around with a tape measure, I was just taking an educated guess.

[Twinsen]

All I know is they had this one tagged as a a 2000 and it had a barrel that couldn't have been over tweleve inches long, and they couldn't legally sell it unless you had a pistol permit. That's all I really have to go on. I know I'm not mixing that with anything else it's the only one I keep looking at. I don't know if they changed the specs on the models they are releasing or whatever, but this is definately a 2000 with an extremely short barrel I mean it barely makes it past the fore stock, for lack of a better term, before terminating into a muzzle break.

both are bullpups, dude. even if the barrel "barely makes it past the furniture", it's still over 15 inches long...

picture attached is a FS2000 with a 17 inch barrel.

i dont think you can hack down a F2000/FS2000 shorter than 14 inch (or you'd be INSIDE the furniture).

I understand both are bullpups but the one that I have been looking at is shorter than that one. where the forestock ends is literally right where the muzzlebreak is. there isn't any exposed barrel beyond enough to thread the muzzel break on to.

I could be longer than I thought I don't really know. I don't generally walk around with a tape measure, I was just taking an educated guess.

If that picture showed it in a man's hands, you'd probably think it was the right gun. It's like a toy.

[SuA]

If that picture showed it in a man's hands, you'd probably think it was the right gun. It's like a toy.

so here you got them all. F2000 (note bayonet lug), the FN P90 and the chick with PS90 (long barreled version).

(and the FS2000 i already posted (the chick shooting it))

Attached Files

•  DSC05770.JPG   47.34K   1 downloads
•  FN_P90_rijkswacht.jpg   18.29K   1 downloads
•  FN_PS90.jpg   91.7K   3 downloads

[FrankDude72]

Hmmmm, zombie thread but I have relevant info to add, going back to the OP.

I own 2 Austrian made A1 AUGs and a (factory refurbished to newer generation style) Bushmaster M17S.

See them (and other bullpups) here in my Left Hand Bullpup Shooting video:


The only thing the Bushmaster has over the AUG (especially AUGs with rails) is price.

One could argue that the M17S' plastic pistol-like BUIS are nice as they're built in and decently on target.
These are better than the just for decoration irons on the original carry handle sight Swarovski Cobra 1.5X24mm, but on railed AUGs (A1 Special Receiver, A2, A3, MSAR, etc.) you have a wider choice of better BUIS.

If you look at the video above, you could argue that of the 2 guns, when unsuppressed, the Bushmaster has a slightly more user friendly ejection pattern for lefties.
When you add a red dot or muzzle can to the AUG, this becomes more moot.
Even discounting the AUG option of a left handed bolt (that the M17S lacks), both are totally usuable in movement drills and pie slicing when shooting from left shoulder.

My personal Bushmaster has wayyy too many FTEs and FTFs (even with PMags) for me to trust it.

The Bushmaster has only one barrel length, the AUG has several you can swap easily.

The Bushmaster has many parts that can only be removed via tools, including roll pins holding in the firing pin and extractor.
The AUG strips down into smaller components as easily as the M16/AR-15/M4-series.

The Bushmaster went out of production when Cerberus took over. Good luck finding spares.
AUG spares are plentiful, if expensive.

Bushmaster rail is short and plastic.
AUG A2/A3/MSAR rail is longer, so more sight options.

AUG is overall more retrofitable.

People who whine about the AUGs' plastic should be aware you can run the dang thing over with a truck dozens of times (as Steyr did in product demos) with no ill effects.
Lots of metal guns won't fare as well.

M17S is a fun gun.
AUG is a working gun.
The video above should prove southpaws have nothing to fear either.

[YARP]

FRANKDUDE72! I didn't know you were over here! I just asked about this the other day on WT for a project (caliber change of course). I was hoping you'd post being the bullpup master and all.....
So do you think this is reliable enough to waste money on if I lengthen the barrel (hopefully the problem of the FTE, FTF)?

Edited by YARP, 30 September 2010 - 02:34 PM.