rs51085 136 Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 (edited) So here is the question. And i am looking for opinions. Currently i have an s 12 with alot of good stuff on it that has a jack travers sgm magwell adapter on it. I am planing on changing the magwell out for a vepr 12 magwell. I have a vepr 12 as well and would really like magazine compatibility between the two. I currently have the vepr magwell ready to install but when i got started i realized that there is no turning back after i do it. I will have to open up the mag opening in the gun alot for it to accept the vepr magwell. After that i will never be able to use S 12 rock and locks or the sgm magwell either. Keep in mind i only have 4 10 rders for this s 12, i have another s 12 setup for rock n locks and my md drum. So all in all i have 3 different 12 gauge mag types to keep up with and just need some opinions. Am I screwing up trying to go to just 2 different types of mags? One other thing i have 2 25 rd drums in route for the vepr if that makes any difference. Also its been awhile since i have been on here but it is good to see some familiar names still active on here. Edited July 26, 2016 by rogers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
armalite_ar50 86 Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 I'd be shooting for one single magazine style for all three if it were me and had no intention of selling. But then I'm a magaholic and kinda weird like that. Rich Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted July 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 (edited) I tend to agree with your mindset. I just got freaked out a little when I saw how much metal I was going to have to cut out for the new magwell. Sometimes I jump the gun and make impulsive decisions and since the only people that even know what I am talking about are on this board I needed some reassurance before I got the dremel out. Probably gonna keep the one s 12 I have thats rock and lock that way for now though. I have to much invested in those mags to get rid of them right now. But I do think it is time to get rid of the travers magwell. It is more for competition shooting and I am gearing up for more combat grade hardware right now. The vepr mags and magwell are definitely a step towards that goal I think. Thanks for the input. Edited July 26, 2016 by rogers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 I'd go ahead since you already have the Vepr, and you can convert rock-and-lock mags to fit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted July 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 Holly crap I think you just made a good point. I forgot about the mod that somebody came up with to convert the vepr back to rock n lock mags. Its a little plate or something right? So in theory if for some reason I decided to go back to rock n lock mags I guess I could. Thank you for your input. I hadn't thought about that. You can never have to many options. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 That's a lot of work, but at least it is fairly straightforward. You might take some comparative measurements (longitudinal) first, mainly positioning of mag catch etc and note any differences. If it all checks out and no red flags arise, you might locate all of the cuts off of the mag catch pin hole. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted July 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 Good idea. I was thinking along those lines. Since the mag pin hole is already there and i have to make the other hole at the other end. Question for you evil. Wasn't it you that came up with the tab for the verp 12 to run rock n lock mags? I couldn't remember who thought of that. If anyone is interested I will take some pictures of this process. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 Do it and don't look back. It's not difficult. I used an SGM magwell because it's what I already had. I also had to file down the inside of the SGM magwell for the V12 mags to seat in properly. When I did mine, I pulled the magwell off of my V12 and measured the opening in the receiver, then transfered that number over to my S12 and gave it hell with a super precise handheld rotary tool. I'd never go back to rock n lock mags.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted July 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 Those 2 look great together. I wish I would have thought about the poly sgm magwell before I went and bought the Russian competition magwell. Oh well. Just got a little done on this project. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 I think you could probably modify the travers magwell to take vepr mags. I've considered the same thing myself. I have an RNL and a Jack Travers. - (though it looks like I might have to sell the rock and lock) Also, you can build your plastic mags up via plastic welding to reshape them for the new format. So none of your mags are scrap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted July 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 I finished putting the magwell on tonight and it turned out pretty good. I had to take a little off the mag catch tab so the mags from my vepr would fit without a fight and now they go in easy and drop free. I am very glad i did this but now I need to get on the ball and stock up on vepr mags. I test fired about 25 rds of federal bulk and it worked flawlessly. Gun fun, tell me more about the plastic welding. Where do you get the tools and supplies? Heres a few pics of the finished product. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 You can get plastic welding kits. I haven't used them because they aren't cheap. If you want to do more basic, You need alcohol and a variable temp soldering iron. Preferably with the flat tip they use for stained glass. Clean the area thoroughly with the denatured alcohol. You need a donor source of plastic as 'fill rod'. For this I use the factory stock off of saigas. It's tough glass filled nylon like the magazines. I cut a strip off of the stock and use it kinda like solder. The key is to keep the temp low. Just warm enough to melt, but not hot enough to bubble or scorch. Massage the heat into a broad area until it is pliable then gradually work in the fill. Keep gradually keeping the whole area warm by moving the iron around. I always test the area afterward with a knife. If your heat was uneven, the plastic will flake off in layers. If you got good penetration it will be very strong. Make it oversized, then file & sand down to your final dimensions. I think a heat gun could also be helpfull for preheating and getting the area up to temp evenly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 Good idea. I was thinking along those lines. Since the mag pin hole is already there and i have to make the other hole at the other end. Question for you evil. Wasn't it you that came up with the tab for the verp 12 to run rock n lock mags? I couldn't remember who thought of that. If anyone is interested I will take some pictures of this process. No, Pauly had the idea. He couldn't get his working 100%, but I made one that worked flawlessly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted July 29, 2016 Report Share Posted July 29, 2016 If you're serious about doing plastic welding, one of these welders will do most anything and runs $70 at HF. They are essentially pinpoint-tip variable-temp heat guns. I used these extensively filling voids from the molding process at Jackson Kayak. Plastic welding is a real skill and takes a little practice to perform competently. Different plastics will behave differently at varying temps. You need to match your donor material, and get it just hot enough to bond, usually when the plastic takes on a shiny "wet" appearance. Do not get the plastic hot enough to bubble. GunFun laid out the general idea pretty well, but there are a lot of little secrets to making it work right. Like using a piece of waxed film (not paper) from the back of a decal to get a nice smooth finish without scorching your fingers. Add a dab of Tire Shine (no really) to the film to prevent sticking and allow you to rub it smooth. Flash with a torch to eliminate scuff marks after sanding. After a while, I got good enough to weld plastic with my fingertips. Gotta be quick! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
svibeardly 1 Posted July 29, 2016 Report Share Posted July 29, 2016 Where did you get that Vepr competition magwell and was it hard to install? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted August 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) The magwell came from legion. Google them they are a great company and shipped out my stuff same day. As far as difficulty to install take a look at post #9 in this thread again the 3rd pic that i posted will pretty much show you what has to be done. The top gun in that pic is the saiga 12 that was about to be modified and the bottom gun is a vepr 12 with the magwell removed. You can see how much metal i had to remove from the saiga receiver in that pic. If you are handy with a dremel the go for it. Just be careful not to take to much metal off. Thanks to distal for more info on the plastic welding. I wondered if those plastic welders harbor freight sold worked. Edited August 1, 2016 by rogers 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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