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hktome

UTAS XTR 1ST impression

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Just thought I would share my 1st impressions of my new UTAS XTR , first 50 rounds , a mix of rem 00 win 00 mil. and win super X 00 as well as low brass 7 shot was a disaster  every stoppage type you can imagine , failure to feed, failure to fire , failure to eject, bolt over base , you name it, so I went back looked for burrs, sharp edges, found a few stoned them smooth , went for round 2 , still a jammamatic, decided the firing pin spring was the culprit, removed it and was rewarded with a mag dump of 6 shot low brass, but high brass 4 shot still jammed, after a bit of serious thought , it occurred to me no AR-15 based design has ever needed a bolt spring, so I removed it ... WAALAA !! it now runs 00 buck and no. 4 shot high brass perfectly, I hope this helps others out there, I was REALLY hopim

ng that this platform was not going to be the headache my Saiga was way back when this board started, (I think I joined apx. . 2004), but it does have merit, and I really hope it is embraced by aftermarket support YMMV

Edited by hktome

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also, where in kansas, im in wichita....


by magdump you mean uncommanded hammer folowing type o deal?


and whats a bolt spring


have you planned to chop the barrel and use an 80% lower to make a short barrel setup without tax stamp?!

 

also, if you near wichita i would love to take a look at one, i have an 80% ar10 lower that i would like to see how it lines or really doesnt line up...

Edited by saltydecimator

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Wow!  Way beyond my machinist skills and resources.  Thank you.  Have you fired some stuff then not fire some stuff just racking out the unfired shell.?  I am thinking of unfired primer dints caused by a inertial firing pin strike?  Yep ... pictures or video forthcoming?  We all would enjoy learning from you.

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I hope to be finishing up an 8" XTR-12 soon, but it is kind of one of those pick-at-it-when-time-allows projects. So far, I spent most of my time working through some not so great ideas that happened after the manual was printed. Somewhere they deviated from the original design. I assume it didn't run well as it was and then they employed some less than desirable quick fixes to get it closer to running ok. The XTR needs a lot of attention, but it has a lot of potential. I hope to get through this one and start offering SBS builds at 8".

 

 

 

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Is is possible to just build the upper without a lower in your possession? If someone is trying to build their own off a stripped AR10 lower.

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The lower would be kinda worthless (xtr) to other than xtr folks as the pin holes are different than ar10...

 

So what do you mean by potential? Short gas system, Ar Barbie accessory host?

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Is is possible to just build the upper without a lower in your possession? If someone is trying to build their own off a stripped AR10 lower.

Yes.

The lower would be kinda worthless (xtr) to other than xtr folks as the pin holes are different than ar10...

 

So what do you mean by potential? Short gas system, Ar Barbie accessory host?

It has the potential to be a phenomenal mag fed shotgun. For those who like the ergos of the AR, it feels just like home. Modular too.

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im confused by what he mans when he says " build just the upper"?  meaning chop it short? or does he mean off the shelf components and build it piece by piece...

 

got pics of your progress? im excited like you said, as long as the turks keep the parts and pieces all the same, or nearly the same, and interchangeable, yes, i see this being kewl as well..

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He is talking about just sending his existing upper for chop, etc.

 

 

This is the most recent pic I have....

 

n1viJZB.jpg?1

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Sexxxxxyy time!

A few minor changes have been made. Engraving and 45* safety retrofit. Mainly, I need to do some fairly invasive work to the BCG and some fairly heavy modification of the gas system. That should lead to reliability and a Geissele trigger. It has been calling me, but I have too much other work to do to devote much time to it.

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also, where in kansas, im in wichita....

by magdump you mean uncommanded hammer folowing type o deal?

and whats a bolt spring

have you planned to chop the barrel and use an 80% lower to make a short barrel setup without tax stamp?!

 

also, if you near wichita i would love to take a look at one, i have an 80% ar10 lower that i would like to see how it lines or really doesnt line up...

by mag dump I mean it finally cycles a whole 5 rounds

a bolt spring is what they installed inside the carrier , behind the bolt , they felt it was needed to replace friction that was lost when they eliminated the gas rings found on the original AR direct impingment design

no plans to chop the barrel at this time

sorry I live 52 miles west of Garden City, as far from Wichita as you can get and still be in Kansas LOL

EVLBLKWPNZ, do you think a VERP 25 round drum can be made to fit the XTR?

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also, where in kansas, im in wichita....

by magdump you mean uncommanded hammer folowing type o deal?

and whats a bolt spring

have you planned to chop the barrel and use an 80% lower to make a short barrel setup without tax stamp?!

 

also, if you near wichita i would love to take a look at one, i have an 80% ar10 lower that i would like to see how it lines or really doesnt line up...

by mag dump I mean it finally cycles a whole 5 rounds

a bolt spring is what they installed inside the carrier , behind the bolt , they felt it was needed to replace friction that was lost when they eliminated the gas rings found on the original AR direct impingment design

no plans to chop the barrel at this time

sorry I live 52 miles west of Garden City, as far from Wichita as you can get and still be in Kansas LOL

EVLBLKWPNZ, do you think a VERP 25 round drum can be made to fit the XTR?

 

It most likely can be done. Whether or not it would make sense to spend the time to do it is another question. If I weren't so busy actually working I'd probably sit down and have a go at it.

 

Are 8 round mags not available yet?

No. I contacted UTAS about 2-3 weeks ago and I think I remember them saying October or November. The last time I asked about ETA was in April when I actually ordered and back then it was "about a month", IIRC.

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I ordered spare 5 rnd mags a week ago (they arrived in 3 days btw) at that time they told me the 8 round mag had been ditched, and 10 rounders will be out in October fwiw

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I ordered spare 5 rnd mags a week ago (they arrived in 3 days btw) at that time they told me the 8 round mag had been ditched, and 10 rounders will be out in October fwiw

Wow. I ordered the 8 rounder earlier this year and not once did anyone bother to tell me it got scrapped, or refund my money for that matter. Looks like they need to cough up a 10 rounder then.

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according to their facebook, 10rders are now available..... and soooooold out............. nOW!!!

 

http://www.utas-usa.com/accessories

I'm so glad they let me know seeing as how I ordered an 8 rounder in April and never received anything...

 

bad_egg.gif

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yep, turkey is half a world away, perhaps they dont know how to serve customers?!?! 

 

i think the short barrel shotgun with no stamp is a no go in kansas... so the utas isnt all that exciting at the moment.  plus the shoddy worksmanship, and bad edge distance on the bolt extractor claw...posted over on barf.com

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yep, turkey is half a world away, perhaps they dont know how to serve customers?!?! 

 

i think the short barrel shotgun with no stamp is a no go in kansas... so the utas isnt all that exciting at the moment.  plus the shoddy worksmanship, and bad edge distance on the bolt extractor claw...posted over on barf.com

This was stateside UTAS that I ordered it from. I guess they don't know how to either, lol. I'll try to call them again today.

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yep.  i guess to clarify my thoughts were that instead of trying to be like apple and have smiling faces and happy customer service etc, they kinda treat folks bad... now that really the industry in general, as its a "macho" driven deal....  i think thats a place we could really work on...

 

as far as teh non nfa 14", heres the link... not sure where its legal though...

 

http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

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People just don't communicate in this industry, not many, at least. There is a giant gaping hole in the market when it comes to comms. I try my best to stay on top of it and keep it from getting out of hand. Being a one-man-shop I don't have much choice if I care about what my reputation is like.

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Yeah I saw the gas system on it. Simple to chop the barrel no shortening of the gas system required. Drill it if needed I figured it may need drilled because they were already not running low brass as is.

 

I’d probably only get it running 9 pellet win, highbrass only. 

 

Edited by mike12345

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talked to a gunshop down in arvada, co.  he said something to the effect of most, if not all went back multiple times for broken parts.  i just dont understand it.  why release a product over here, tarnishing your name/country, that sucks???

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Looking at the weapon and the parts diagram in the manual, it would be easy to assume that there was never one fully built and tested in Turkey that actually ran. Whoever designed it had no clue about pressure differences in 12 ga vs .308. As soon as I get everything else out of here and call in another batch I am going to spend some time in the lapse of custom work trying to re-design the bolt carrier in this one. It is the root of the problem. If it still won't run I am going to redesign the gas block. It should run then. If UTAS will buy that information, great. Otherwise, I'll offer a service to make these winners, assuming I can actually pull it off. I like a challenge, but I have a far greater appreciation for intelligent design.

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so basically you need to build a whole new bolt? how receptive are they to your offer?

 

do they have an "engineering" dept or they just have a group that "throws stuff atthe wall" and see if anything sticks?

Edited by saltydecimator

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To hazard a guess... someone had the idea, someone else 'engineered' it (simply made a .308 design into 12ga and dolled it up a bit, but made it a piston arrangement), and then efforts were made to make said something stick to the wall. Good on them for trying. It was indeed a great idea, but the execution fell short. They were not receptive at all to input when I contacted them early on. They already knew it all and that is probably why these things flopped. They didn't even get the machining for the safety detent right, lol. when I first went through it the entertainment factor was high. Still, it does have potential.

I'm not sure exactly how I will proceed. There are a few ideas rattling around my head. I'm still trying to get my mind past the thought of a company putting forth that much effort with so little basic understanding of what they are trying to do.

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