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ChileRelleno

CX4 Storm, Ammo Kaboom!

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Yeah,I know that title got your attention, right.

I went and picked up my new CX4 today at my local range/FFL.
My youngest son and I had plans of making a full Range Day out of it, 2-3 rifles a few pistols and plenty of ammo/targets.

Anyways, unboxed, inspected, cleaned and hand cycled a 15 rd mag through the CX4.
Loaded, took aim offhanded and bullseye at 25 yards, then proceeded to empty the mag.
Fully functional, great fun and accurate.

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A beautiful day here in South Alabama, we're enjoying ourselves and my son is taking a turn on the CX4. He is trying hard to nail the 150 yard steel human silhouettes, making 1:3 and he says "I'm out".  I look over and the bolt is back and a wisp of smoke is coming out of the receiver. 'Cool my turn' I think, step over and drop the mag... There are still rounds in the mag?  Look and notice the bolt isn't all the way back, go to rack it... 'WHOA! The ejector is protruding outwards!'  The bolt is jammed back, the bolt release lever is protruding outward slightly. 
Nothing in the chamber, barrel... Look for the brass. Find the brass, the case is ruptured and blown out just above the extractor groove.
Inspected all the brass for other defects, none seen.

 

My boy is OK, no shrapnel, no powder burns... Counts Blessings, 1, 2, 3.....

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So, here I am with a busted gun due to some apparently bad reman ammo.
I've had this ammo stashed away for years, and pulled it out because it was all I had and short on funds.
A little research prior to writing this report uncovered a number of kabooms associated with this now Out-of-Business ammo manufacturer/remanufacturer, USA Ammo.
Wish I'd stayed in the loop on this, too late now. banghead.gif
All of it is getting pulled and destroyed...  Even the case new manufacture .223.

Over charged resulting in it unlocking too soon?
Weak case wall from roll forming a bulged case?
Hell, I don't know.  Don't do me a lick of good to know.

Am I screwed? 
Ya think Beretta USA might fix it under warranty or not?
Is it fixable or should I part it out?  Buy another and save this one for parts?

Man am I in foul mood right now.

 

Edited by ChileRelleno

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Damn dude, that sucks. What's the total damaged parts list? It may still be worth buying replacement parts for it if they won't cover it under warranty. 

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I don't know exactly.

I'm probably going to call Beretta USA on Monday and see about sending it to them to evaluate.

Best case, extractor and spring

Worst, complete new bolt and upper assembly

 

Of course it won't be warrantied, pretty sure it's ammo... But it could possibly be timing.

I'll have to pay, but I'd like their gunsmiths to check it over proper.

Maybe they'll go above and beyond and not rape my wallet.

Edited by ChileRelleno
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Wow!  Are you kids OK?  Wonder what may have happened if one of your children was left handed!! Yikes!!  sad.png

 

Factory Ammo?  They are now out of business?  This reminds me of over 25 years ago when one of my products was trashed by a gentleman who admitted drinking and hand loading at the same time and confused 2400 for 748.  :(

Edited by HB of CJ
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Wow!  Are you kids OK?  Wonder what may have happened if one of your children was left handed!! Yikes!!  sad.png

 

Factory Ammo?  They are now out of business?  This reminds me of over 25 years ago when one of my products was trashed by a gentleman who admitted drinking and hand loading at the same time and confused 2400 for 748.  sad.png

Yes, my boy is fine, thanks.

No shrapnel, no powder burns and he learned about potential issues.

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Shitty deal! I'm glad your boy and you are ok.

 

About the ammo. About the only way I know to overcharge a 9 is to use the wrong powder. Shitty deal.

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I'm glad everyone's OK.

Me too.

One of the members over at Berettaforum.net helped me out immensely.

 

 

The gun is probably fine. The plastic may be scraped up a bit near the ejection port but its not a critical area, the bolt is guided by the plastic rails in the bottom of the upper.

 

It looks to me like the ruptured case just shoved the ejector out sideways through the left hand ejection port, its just held in by a spring clip after all so it wouldn't even take much force, and then recoil tried to force the bolt back with the partially ejected ejector.

 

I would get it apart, put it back together. I doubt anything is actually damaged beyond some plastic shaved off the inside of the upper where the ejector was forced back out of position.

 

If beretta will do it for your for free that would be great but I suspect not. But like I said, I think there is a 90% chance you just have to put the parts back where they belong, maybe file down some burs in the plastic and everything will be okay.

 

It could be a lot worse....I bulged a CX4 barrel once

Thank you for encouraging me to take a closer look at this. I had to google several views of the bolt carrier/ejector to understand how it fit into the carrier, once done and understood it was easy to fix.

Lift the ejector

Turn it 90' with the proper edge facing out

Compress the ejector spring down past the bolt edge and under the spring clip and nudge it into place in the bolt.

I needed a third hand to lift the edge of the spring clip to compress the ejector spring, but I got it done.

And it seems to function correctly.

Will have to test fire it next week with a decent commercial offering.

 

Thank you, this is why before I had the firearm I joined the forum.

I frequent a few others and the shared knowledge is invaluable.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

 

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Well that's a helluva thing. 

 

From what I can see in the pictures of the case it doesn't look like the primer shows any pressure signs.  It's not cratered or flattened or blown out.

 

It does look like the bolt opened early.  If it had fired out of battery I would have expected more damage.  OTOH this is a pistol cartridge and there is less energy so I may be misunderestimating...

 

The Storm has a sear disconnect that prevents the striker from being released if the bolt is not in battery.  If the gun goes back together be sure to check that. 

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First and foremost...glad you both are OK Chile. I know you already know that the fact that no blood was drawn is worth a thousand CX4s. That said, it really sucks that you have a brand new firearm damaged by crappy ammo. I would contact Beretta for parts, but I would continue to work through the Beretta forum for the solution. It seems like you are getting some sound advice from those with direct experience. After all most of us had no idea how to convert a Saiga before joining this forum. Hope it all works out for you.

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Well that's a helluva thing. 

 

From what I can see in the pictures of the case it doesn't look like the primer shows any pressure signs.  It's not cratered or flattened or blown out.

 

It does look like the bolt opened early.  If it had fired out of battery I would have expected more damage.  OTOH this is a pistol cartridge and there is less energy so I may be misunderestimating...

 

The Storm has a sear disconnect that prevents the striker from being released if the bolt is not in battery.  If the gun goes back together be sure to check that. 

Sear disconnect functions, thanks.

 

Yeah, there are a few possibilities.

I'll be back at the range next Sat to function test with different ammo... And a long trigger lanyard.

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First and foremost...glad you both are OK Chile. I know you already know that the fact that no blood was drawn is worth a thousand CX4s. That said, it really sucks that you have a brand new firearm damaged by crappy ammo. I would contact Beretta for parts, but I would continue to work through the Beretta forum for the solution. It seems like you are getting some sound advice from those with direct experience. After all most of us had no idea how to convert a Saiga before joining this forum. Hope it all works out for you.

Thanks, yes, best case scenario for such a malfunction.

 

Good news on the gun is that it doesn't appear to have suffered any permanent damage beyond a little plastic shaved off in an area of no real importance.

The one Berettaforum member was right on top of it with sound knowledgeable recommendations.

 

I'm not 100% sure it was the ammo, neither are some others elsewhere, but it is most likely.

Bad chamber? But no signs on any other cartridges.

Bolt timing issue?

Out of battery?

Bad/weak casing due to forming?

Overcharged?

There is what appears to be a fairly heavy roll crimp, not a taper crimp on the ammo.

Was a bullet setback as it fed?

 

There is nothing wrong I can see with the firearm, so unless it happens again I may never know.

Still, due to what I found pertaining to USA Ammo and Kabooms, all of it is getting trashed.

Edited by ChileRelleno
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Glad to hear the damage likely isn't catastrophic. 

As far as I can see now, it is now just a well used gun, with some character marks and a sordid history.

 

This carbine is really well built, over built even, especially the bolt, just like as stated in my other thread.

The ejector isn't even bent, it was just forced out of it's slot in the side of the bolt, the ejector spring allowed o move but kept it captured.

The bolt's disassembly spring clip flexed and held it all.

Amazing to me say the least, I thought it was seriously F'd up.

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It is great to see that no one is counting on nine fingers and looking at those nine fingers with one good eye. It that weapon runs as it should and doesn't encounter any future issues I think it would be fair to call it a resilient weapon.

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It is great to see that no one is counting on nine fingers and looking at those nine fingers with one good eye. It that weapon runs as it should and doesn't encounter any future issues I think it would be fair to call it a resilient weapon.

I'll let you know Sat.

Hopefully my case of new 9mm will arrive Mon as scheduled.

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Wow. Very happy to hear this turned out okay. I can just imagine thinking about injuries and a brand-new gun being destroyed! :(

 

I hope all goes well with it on Saturday.

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You may be able to recoup some of your money if you are willing to break the ammo down. You could sell the projectiles as pulls. I'd dispose of the powder and scrap the brass.

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Any bad ammo should be completely scrapped and not reused.

 

Good to hear all are safe!

 

That case kinda looks similar to what happened to my High Standard .22 pistol.  The extractor notch blew out and would rip a nice little hole in the side of the casing.  Good reason not to play much with the extractor notch on the S12.  Check the notch for damage.

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Looks like they reloaded a case that had spent time in the weather, a bit of corrosion on the inside of the brass case can result in NO strength at all in that part.

An over loaded round would have made a NOTICEABLY louder retort.

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It's like it never happened, nothing actually broken and it hand cycles just fine.

But yeah, next Saturday will be the test.

 

A few minor scratches on the bolt, that's about it.

 

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Ejector extended, I checked it over really well and all it's edges are sharp, no signs of wear/tear.

 

IMG_20170219_095905790_zpsjp6nimt1.jpg

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I'm willing to bet that Beretta will fix that for free if you send it back to them and tell them what happened

Beretta? Doubtful. Personal experience tells me otherwise.

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I'm willing to bet that Beretta will fix that for free if you send it back to them and tell them what happened

Beretta? Doubtful. Personal experience tells me otherwise.

 

 

Wont hurt to try but nothing Ive heard says it is likely at all.

Now Hi-Point on the other hand... bad_smile.gif

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By now you've taken a deep breath of relief, I'd still contact Beretta and give them a run through on what happened just to see if they've had any prior failures or input. Very likely ammo related but not always a given. It's a brand new weapon, sometimes shit happens. If nothing else it's a good lesson at this point for your son how important little things like eye protection are and as long as you error on the side of caution, shit can happen and you can still be just fine.

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Man that's scary. Glad everyone is okay. I reload, and it looks like weak brass, that also had been possibly shot through a Glock before being reloaded. It's just an educated guess though. 

Edited by Semper299
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I showed it to a local gunsmith, he says "Weak casing, nothing broken, shoot it."

 

So I'll shoot it this Saturday, but I'll still use a trigger lanyard for that first shot.

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You'll probably end up looking like me when I fired the first shots out of a Savage that I rebarreled myself. I had the entire action covered in sand bags. I figured that if it did blow up I wanted no part of 60K PSI.

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Well that's a helluva thing. 

 

From what I can see in the pictures of the case it doesn't look like the primer shows any pressure signs.  It's not cratered or flattened or blown out.

 

It does look like the bolt opened early.  If it had fired out of battery I would have expected more damage.  OTOH this is a pistol cartridge and there is less energy so I may be misunderestimating...

 

The Storm has a sear disconnect that prevents the striker from being released if the bolt is not in battery.  If the gun goes back together be sure to check that. 

 

The explanation of corroded case above is plausible, but my thinking was more along the lines of DS's-- might want to check to make sure there's no way the firing pin can stick in the protruding position, such as swarf in the firing pin gallery.

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I'm willing to bet that Beretta will fix that for free if you send it back to them and tell them what happened

Who knows...I know as recent as a few years ago, had to replace the mag shell catch on my A391...after 10 yrs of use it was wore down and was doube feeding, they don't have a factory service center state side..Coles gunsmithing is where you have to send it..scatter guns go to Maine location everthing else goes to FL.this was 2 duck seasons ago so may have changed..if it shoots I wouldn't worry about it...They make a great gun. I have used my 391 for just about everything including a paddle...still folds ducks like lawn chairs every time I take it out.

Edited by sccritterkiller

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