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#1 saltydecimator

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 07:58 PM

Saw an Armslist posting for one. Looks like the junk that ddi was pedaling slightly warmed over... anyone else know anything about it? Price was like 600 with if it's anything like the DDI is 500 too much

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#2 saltydecimator

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 08:02 AM

https://www.gunsamer...cal-Shotgun.htm

Reasonable Politician Control Measures:

-Breathalyzer is mandatory in all personal vehicles

-Only 40% of campaign money can be used on Cocaine and personal luxury items

-Limit of 2 call girls per legislative session (can have multiple rendezvous with taxpayers money, however must be the same 2)

-When a seat becomes vacant, it can only be sold for 110% of what it was sold for last

-All bribery money must be reported on form 1099-Misc

 

am the gun lobby you treasonous slime!!!!

 

 
 

#3 GunFun

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 10:22 PM

I don't recall any of the prior versions coming in slant back. Perhaps this is a new player?



#4 Sim_Player

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 11:20 PM

I don't recall any of the prior versions coming in slant back. Perhaps this is a new player?


Looks like a square-back slipped inside the stock, IMO.
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#5 GunFun

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 01:20 PM

I think you are right. The mags don't look like the others, so I still think it is a new brand.



#6 Mike Rogers

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 10:52 PM

Examined one at a gun show a couple of weeks ago. The vendor was kind enough to allow me to field strip the gun, and remove the gas plug.

 

So, this is pretty much a dead on copy of a Saiga 12.

 

The notable differences were minor. Whoever commissioned the production of this Chinese clone wanted to make sure the copy was physically the same as the original.

 

No idea regarding actual parts quality - but the parts appear to be either direct cast downs, or forged and machined copies of the Russian originals. 

 

As memory serves, the manufacturer markings are Wuxi Machine Works, China, and the guns bear an importers mark from Cherry's Guns, North Carolina. Can't be absolutely sure, but I was surprised to see an S12 clone I hadn't heard about, and did my best to make mental notes.

 

I did not remove the stock but removed the dust cover, recoil spring, bolt carrier/ bolt assembly (as far as I could tell, identical to Russian),  and  felt around at the rear of the receiver.

 

The rear of the receiver felt flat, not slanted, so I'm guessing the rear of the receiver is straight and not slanted. 

 

I did not remove the hand guard, but aside from the Russian factory checkering, it appears identical to the Russian factory hand guard.

 

Notable differences were two relief ports rear top of the gas block, and an indent on the forward side piston itself. These were  the  only  differences I observed. There may be others.

 

The relief port on the Russian factory IZ-109 is at the rear left hand side of the gas block, and is at least partially (and inexplicably) blocked by the factory hand guard. Presumably, the Chinese clone relief ports are meant to remedy this issue. 

 

I would not have put them there because - "eyes".  But, I haven't shot the gun, so I don't know if this is an issue.


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#7 Spacehog

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 12:26 AM

Thanks Mike. One of the best pieces of information (insight) on new firearms in a while.
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#8 Mike Rogers

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 01:59 AM

Thank you, Spacehog.

 

Thought about buying one personally, but currently have several builds on the bench, and in queue.

 

Physically, the gun looks just like a Saiga 12, and initial impression of build quality is generally good. But, until I get my hands on one and put it through its paces will reserve judgement.


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#9 saltydecimator

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 10:07 AM

Ya excellent info! Much appreciated.

I knew someone out there would shed some light on the subject...

I just wish they were cheap enough to justify buying!

Could we call that USA importer and get any info outta them or would that be an exercise in futility
These Chinese doppelgangers are just that it seems(I'm being negative in hopes of being pleasantly surprised). A sad imitation of the real thing, to put it in the proverbial way, to separate a fool from his money....
There just seems no interest from the Chinese to make the critical parts with steel instead of play dough or whatever
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Reasonable Politician Control Measures:

-Breathalyzer is mandatory in all personal vehicles

-Only 40% of campaign money can be used on Cocaine and personal luxury items

-Limit of 2 call girls per legislative session (can have multiple rendezvous with taxpayers money, however must be the same 2)

-When a seat becomes vacant, it can only be sold for 110% of what it was sold for last

-All bribery money must be reported on form 1099-Misc

 

am the gun lobby you treasonous slime!!!!

 

 
 

#10 patriot

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 05:13 PM

All they can do is copy, and poorly at that. Innovate? not so much.


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#11 Darth Saigus

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 01:06 PM

Some Chinese copies have been damn good.  Just not recently.


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#12 Heartbreaker

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 05:22 AM

It is built by a fairly reputable company.

http://www.thefirear...de-arms-tak-47/
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#13 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:24 PM

Looking at the parts diagram, it appears to have a squareback receiver. I'd like to have one to hack on.


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#14 jerry52

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:28 PM

Does it shoot steel shot?

#15 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:53 PM

Does it shoot steel shot?

I'm not sure it is all that much of a concern with thicker barrels in low end shotguns, assuming nothing smaller than a 0/0 choke is used. Steel shot does not compress like lead will. Aside from running it through a choke that is smaller than the bore, I think the "no steel shot" warning has more to do with liability and trial lawyers. I'm not an expert on the matter though. Dig around elsewhere and you will learn a lot about it.


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#16 jerry52

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 09:26 PM

I would be nice if they would say yes, because it would imply a better barrel . Cannot fine anything about it so far.

#17 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 09:37 PM

Well, I see it a bit differently that most. I figure if I can afford to shoot it enough to damage it I can afford to replace it. The way guns are moving I would expect it to end up coming in fairly cheap.


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#18 Sim_Player

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 04:20 AM

I don't recall any of the prior versions coming in slant back. Perhaps this is a new player?

Looks like a square-back slipped inside the stock, IMO.
It's so nice to be right once in a while!

This is the oldest country on the planet?

5,000 years old because they copied better ideas than they could think about under their government.

It's either that or intelligence. I think all people are made in God's Image.

Edited by Sim_Player, 18 May 2017 - 04:34 AM.


#19 jerry52

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:36 AM

Well, I see it a bit differently that most. I figure if I can afford to shoot it enough to damage it I can afford to replace it. The way guns are moving I would expect it to end up coming in fairly cheap.


I am a big pheasant hunter and have cases on cases of steel that's why I asked

#20 Heartbreaker

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:51 AM

In the section regarding choke tubes, all the chokes except Full are rated lead/steel. So I'm guessing it will handle steel, but again, still not definitive proof.
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#21 Mullet Man

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:13 AM

Modern bird shot rides in a plastic shot cup. Couple that with a chrome lined bore and you shouldn't have much to worry about.
This topic has been argued quite a few times on here.
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#22 DLT

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:39 AM

What about the JTS12 academy sells? Anyone know anything about those? I took a look at one the other day, but the counter guys wouldn't let me look under the hood.
Deep South Texas

#23 jerry52

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 06:55 AM

Modern bird shot rides in a plastic shot cup. Couple that with a chrome lined bore and you shouldn't have much to worry about.
This topic has been argued quite a few times on here.


This is a good point and I think I may get one

#24 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 11:43 AM

 

Modern bird shot rides in a plastic shot cup. Couple that with a chrome lined bore and you shouldn't have much to worry about.
This topic has been argued quite a few times on here.


This is a good point and I think I may get one

 

To add to that, loads that are not cupped are uncommon and are usually buck. Most from about 5-6 shot and smaller will be cupped. However, the main issue, as I understand it, is that the steel does not compress like lead will when a choke is used. The shot touching the bore is less of a concern in lower end guns like this. In a $20k shotgun, extended use with non-cupped steel shot may actually lead to a condition in the bore that would affect resale value. 


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#25 patriot

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 12:33 PM

just another Chinese copy made out of God knows what metals.

 

...here we go again.


Edited by patriot, 19 May 2017 - 12:34 PM.

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#26 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 01:20 AM

just another Chinese copy made out of God knows what metals.

 

...here we go again.

Even so, I'd like to have one to break. Took me about an hour to break a Catamount Fury II.


Prodigy.... an unusual accomplishment.

 

OETpxqr.png?2

 

WTB: Saiga rifle gas tubes. Email me if you have some you would like to sell.


#27 Mullet Man

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 08:05 AM


Modern bird shot rides in a plastic shot cup. Couple that with a chrome lined bore and you shouldn't have much to worry about.
This topic has been argued quite a few times on here.

This is a good point and I think I may get one
To add to that, loads that are not cupped are uncommon and are usually buck. Most from about 5-6 shot and smaller will be cupped. However, the main issue, as I understand it, is that the steel does not compress like lead will when a choke is used. The shot touching the bore is less of a concern in lower end guns like this. In a $20k shotgun, extended use with non-cupped steel shot may actually lead to a condition in the bore that would affect resale value.

I agree. The biggest concern is the choke being used.

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#28 patriot

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 08:07 AM

 

just another Chinese copy made out of God knows what metals.

 

...here we go again.

Even so, I'd like to have one to break. Took me about an hour to break a Catamount Fury II.

 

I'll bet you didn't have to try very hard!


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#29 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 07:06 AM

 

 

just another Chinese copy made out of God knows what metals.

 

...here we go again.

Even so, I'd like to have one to break. Took me about an hour to break a Catamount Fury II.

 

I'll bet you didn't have to try very hard!

 

It took almost exactly an hour. It ran weak loads just fine, a lot of them. A couple of mags of 3" did it in. I can repair it fairly easily, but have so much other work to do that it just waits patiently in its bin.


Prodigy.... an unusual accomplishment.

 

OETpxqr.png?2

 

WTB: Saiga rifle gas tubes. Email me if you have some you would like to sell.


#30 jerry52

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 10:23 AM

just another Chinese copy made out of God knows what metals.
 
...here we go again.

Even so, I'd like to have one to break. Took me about an hour to break a Catamount Fury II.
I'll bet you didn't have to try very hard!
It took almost exactly an hour. It ran weak loads just fine, a lot of them. A couple of mags of 3" did it in. I can repair it fairly easily, but have so much other work to do that it just waits patiently in its bin.

What quit on it?




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