Correcting a canted fsb with dimples not pins

[DLT 1,646]

After installing a tws dust cover with rear peep sight it's super obvious I've got a canted fsb on my saiga 5.45. Unlike the older Saigas with pins, this fsb has the cute dimples. How would you guys suggest correcting this?

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Give it a GOOD SOLID whack or two, with a rubber (or wooden or brass) mallet. See if that corrects it before you get into 'Plan B'.

[HB of CJ 1,263]

Oh boy.  I am trying to think this one through.  You have a problem. 

 

Edit:  How long is your barrel?

Edited May 7, 2017 by HB of CJ

[Spacehog 2,218]

Unfortunately it should have both pins and dimples. Try MMs solution first, but I seriously doubt you will move it. Apart from that you will have to remove the front sight. Doing so will require you to drill out or mill the blind side of the pins (Mine was pinned, but the pins did not come all the way through, so I had to remove metal to expose the pins to drive them out. Once done, tackle the dimples with a larger drill bit than the dimple diameter. Mark the thickness of the FSB with tape on the tip of the drill bit. Go slow, alternating sides. In between use a sturdy vice, and an edger blade, and a 22oz ball ping hammer to give the FSB a couple of solid whacks. Repeat the process until it moves.

 

Obviously go slow you don't want to get too aggressive into that barrel. Afterwards you will need to get a new FSB or weld up the divot holes on the existing one. If you can find a Bulgarian FSB, it will go on, match up with the existing pin channels in the barrel, and cover up the dimples on the barrel. It is time consuming but it can be done. If you need a Saiga FSB to use without the dimples, PM me I think I have spare that came off one of my non dimpled rifles. Good luck.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Spacehog

[jerry52 893]

Unfortunately it should have both pins and dimples. Try MMs solution first, but I seriously doubt you will move it. Apart from that you will have to remove the front sight. Doing so will require you to drill out or mill the blind side of the pins (Mine was pinned, but the pins did not come all the way through, so I had to remove metal to expose the pins to drive them out. Once done, tackle the dimples with a larger drill bit than the dimple diameter. Mark the thickness of the FSB with tape on the tip of the drill bit. Go slow, alternating sides. In between use a sturdy vice, and an edger blade, and a 22oz ball ping hammer to give the FSB a couple of solid whacks. Repeat the process until it moves.

 

Obviously go slow you don't want to get too aggressive into that barrel. Afterwards you will need to get a new FSB or weld up the divot holes on the existing one. If you can find a Bulgarian FSB, it will go on, match up with the existing pin channels in the barrel, and cover up the dimples on the barrel. It is time consuming but it can be done. If you need a Saiga FSB to use without the dimples, PM me I think I have spare that came off one of my non dimpled rifles. Good luck.

Find someone who has a hydrolic press and a drill press if you do not have one ,it is so much easier

[HB of CJ 1,263]

Spacehog has done it before.  Thank you Spacehog.  But ... if you find you do NOT have pins and that pesky canted front site base was only crimped into place, then more problems arise.  Let's hope it has pins.  We used a slide hammer.

[DLT 1,646]

It's a 16 inch. Years ago I converted it right after purchase and threaded the barrel. Afterwards noticed that it shot extremely to one side and attributed it to the brake since the factory marks on the front sight post showed it was zeroed right at center. Guess the Russians lied on that test day! Now with the TWS railed cover on its clear as day how the fsb does not line up with the front trunnion or gas block. When you look through the peep sight, you can see the front sight post lining up with the right side of the rear sight leaf mounting point that's easily seen now. I'll try the rubber mallet whack attack first, but I'm starting to think this one's not correctable without surgery.

[HB of CJ 1,263]

If you can get the canted front site base off, then you still need to rotate it properly.  Do you already have a threaded barrel?  If not, would you like a future threaded barrel?  Thinking right now if no and yes, then a permanent solution may be to move the FSB further rear ward so there would be enough barrel muzzle length to thread.

 

With the AK there is no way to index the entire barrel.  We removed our AK front site base, (it had two easy pins) and then clamped the front site base, (FSB) down hard using small C-clamps.  Then we used a .30 laser to bore site the bore against the eyeball sight picture.  Seemed to work quite well.  Use the laser correctly.  100 yards.

 

Dawn or dusk best.  We were lucky in that the eyeball irons sighting and the laser bore sighting turned out to be very close together.  Close enough that actual bullet impacts, (which will be different than the laser) were very close to the eyeball iron sight picture at 100 yards.  About 2 inches left .  We added a windage rear sight.

 

When the FSB was rotated slightly to the correct position then locked down with the C-clamps, we then re drilled the two pin grooves through the FSB into the barrel.  Did this at the range.  Portable electric drill.  Then the original two pins were tapped in flush.  Seemed to work.  We moved the FSB back for muzzle threading.

 

Hope this helps.

 

DLT:  Did not read your last post before posting this.  You may need a special .22rf bore laser?

Edited May 7, 2017 by HB of CJ

[Spacehog 2,218]

I am not sure if the forum has the pic attachment issue fixed yet. I haven't been able to attach a pic since the website came back up. But if I can I will shoot you a pic of the pinned and dimpled FSB that I had to remove for the Kushnapup .223 I did. It will at least give you an ideal of what you'd be looking at for removal.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Spacehog

[Mullet Man 2,114]

HB of CJ, on 07 May 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

If you can get the canted front site base off, then you still need to rotate it properly.  Do you already have a threaded barrel?  If not, would you like a future threaded barrel?  Thinking right now if no and yes, then a permanent solution may be to move the FSB further rear ward so there would be enough barrel muzzle length to thread.

 

With the AK there is no way to index the entire barrel.  We removed our AK front site base, (it had two easy pins) and then clamped the front site base, (FSB) down hard using small C-clamps.  Then we used a .30 laser to bore site the bore against the eyeball sight picture.  Seemed to work quite well.  Use the laser correctly.  100 yards.

 

Dawn or dusk best.  We were lucky in that the eyeball irons sighting and the laser bore sighting turned out to be very close together.  Close enough that actual bullet impacts, (which will be different than the laser) were very close to the eyeball iron sight picture at 100 yards.  About 2 inches left .  We added a windage rear sight.

 

When the FSB was rotated slightly to the correct position then locked down with the C-clamps, we then re drilled the two pin grooves through the FSB into the barrel.  Did this at the range.  Portable electric drill.  Then the original two pins were tapped in flush.  Seemed to work.  We moved the FSB back for muzzle threading.

 

Hope this helps.

 

DLT:  Did not read your last post before posting this.  You may need a special .22rf bore laser?

 

The only way to remove a dimpled FSB, is to destroy it. Either by drilling out the dimples so it can be pushed or hammered off or by cutting the length of the FSB to split it open.

 

DLT if you do the whack trick, be sure to support the entire gun and barrel as best as possible. Hitting them used to be a very common remedy to fix canted FSB's on Saigas.

[patriot 7,197]

 

HB of CJ, on 07 May 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

If you can get the canted front site base off, then you still need to rotate it properly.  Do you already have a threaded barrel?  If not, would you like a future threaded barrel?  Thinking right now if no and yes, then a permanent solution may be to move the FSB further rear ward so there would be enough barrel muzzle length to thread.

 

With the AK there is no way to index the entire barrel.  We removed our AK front site base, (it had two easy pins) and then clamped the front site base, (FSB) down hard using small C-clamps.  Then we used a .30 laser to bore site the bore against the eyeball sight picture.  Seemed to work quite well.  Use the laser correctly.  100 yards.

 

Dawn or dusk best.  We were lucky in that the eyeball irons sighting and the laser bore sighting turned out to be very close together.  Close enough that actual bullet impacts, (which will be different than the laser) were very close to the eyeball iron sight picture at 100 yards.  About 2 inches left .  We added a windage rear sight.

 

When the FSB was rotated slightly to the correct position then locked down with the C-clamps, we then re drilled the two pin grooves through the FSB into the barrel.  Did this at the range.  Portable electric drill.  Then the original two pins were tapped in flush.  Seemed to work.  We moved the FSB back for muzzle threading.

 

Hope this helps.

 

DLT:  Did not read your last post before posting this.  You may need a special .22rf bore laser?

 

The only way to remove a dimpled FSB, is to destroy it. Either by drilling out the dimples so it can be pushed or hammered off or by cutting the length of the FSB to split it open.

 

DLT if you do the whack trick, be sure to support the entire gun and barrel as best as possible. Hitting them used to be a very common remedy to fix canted FSB's on Saigas.

 

Splitting it, removing it and replacing it looks like the safest way to go. Minimal barrel stress, minimal danger of damage.

[Spacehog 2,218]

My apologies DLT, I gave you some bad information in my post. After getting home and looking at the FSB, it was NOT pinned, just dimpled, and I had to drill out the dimples and make a vertical cut down the bottom of the FSB to get it to move. I apologize for the misinformation. I done a lot of these, and unfortunately sometimes I get them confused on what was what. Sucks getting old. Either way, the recommendations on getting it off have been solid. Not that big of a deal just take your time.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Spacehog

[BigChongus 765]

[DLT 1,646]

Part number?

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Legion USA should have Russian 24mm FSB's on their site.

[BigChongus 765]

Part number?

 

Apex - BUL-7691

K-Var - AK-167B

[Spacehog 2,218]

I am shocked they have them in stock, they go out of stock often.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

In stock...

https://www.legionusa.com/russian-military-ak-front-sight.html

[DLT 1,646]

Awesome! I knew you guys would have a solution.

[Spacehog 2,218]

You will be happy with it. I still think that FSB in combination with the Bulgarian brake is one of the best recoil tamers on the planet.

[jerry52 893]

Here is the video for removing a dimpled FSB

Like I said pressing them off after drilling with a drill press is better. You wil need a press and drill pressanyway to drill the barrel for the pins.

Hope this helps

 

https://youtu.be/cR2C5xuHWE4

[BigChongus 765]

You will be happy with it. I still think that FSB in combination with the Bulgarian brake is one of the best recoil tamers on the planet.

Having compared it back-to-back with a VG6 Gamma, Lantac Dragon and SI King Comp, it's pretty damn impressive for 40 year old Soviet tech. It would probably be even more impressive on an AR where the impulse of the carrier wasn't so prominent.

[HB of CJ 1,263]

One will still have to do the C-clamp clamp down exercise as described  to make sure the new site base is not canted.  No big deal.  Fun in fact.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Sleep on it. That's quite a bit of effort and expense just to make something look a little better. On one of my own weapons, I just wouldn't have time to bother with it and would probably leave it alone as long as the weapon can be sighted in. Having very little time to shoot it wouldn't be something I would think about or notice very often. My perspective on a lot of this stuff regarding personal things has changed through the years. I do miss the days when I actually had time to perfect my own stuff instead of perfecting everyone else's. However, if you have the time and aren't sweating the cost, I do get it.

[DLT 1,646]

I hear you evo. Over the weekend, I decided to take her to the range to try her out with the peep sight. Wow, talk about dead on. Accuracy was outstanding. Couple that with the low impulse of the 5.45 made shooting that baby fun. I need to get me another TWS dust cover for my next 7.62 conversion.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

My eye doesn't like the regular AK sights and I have always wanted to try a peep. I hope to get to that part of my to-do list someday, lol.

[Sim_Player 1,939]

Both of my Saiga conversions had canted sights, when I took them to the range, even though the components lined up straight and level.

 

My Bulgy Build was dead-on using the same technique so, who knows why..

 

They are all zeroed in and shoot straight. I try not to let it bother me.

 

Our time on Earth is too short to worry about silly things.

 

"Perfection" is the enemy of "good enough." -Ancient Russian Proverb

 

I love the 5.45 caliber.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Sim_Player

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I'd like to add that when things are functionally good enough it is wiser to focus our efforts and resources ($) where there is a deficit of good enough. It took me a long time to get over a lot of this cosmetic stuff on personal weapons. Now I only worry about that kind of thing when people want to pay me to focus on it. I think it will remain that way until I retire and get bored, which may be another 30 years or so.