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Kalashnikov USA finally shipping Saiga 12


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#31 Mike Rogers

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 12:20 PM

Is it possible to put "standard" handguards on an unconverted front end? I just looked on Ironwood Design's page [happy they're still around] and they show an S12 with AK  style furniture on it and the gas tube sticks way out in front.

SAIGA_12_SHOTGUN_CONVERTED_STOCKS-5.jpeg

 

as if you can then that pretty much removes my only reservation.

 

With regard to current KS-12 and Saiga IZ-109 shotguns, some level of customization is necessary to install AK furniture. Dinzag (an S12 forum vendor) manufactures and sells this set up which will work with the KS-12 or Saiga IZ-109: http://www.dinzagarm...a_12/aks12.html


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#32 JDeko

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 12:32 PM

 

Is it possible to put "standard" handguards on an unconverted front end? I just looked on Ironwood Design's page [happy they're still around] and they show an S12 with AK  style furniture on it and the gas tube sticks way out in front.SAIGA_12_SHOTGUN_CONVERTED_STOCKS-5.jpeg
 
as if you can then that pretty much removes my only reservation.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's a picture of a Saiga 308. They must've temporarily used that picture because they don't have the Saiga 12 page set up.

 

 

I thought it looked wrong but I never saw an IZ-109 with hand guard off so I didn't know if it had that angled bit connecting the gas tube to the barrel.


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#33 altiod223

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 10:07 PM

Does anyone know when K-USA will be selling their version of the Saiga 12 mags? It would be nice to get some of those.

 

Another question I have for the owner's of this gun are about the mags. Are the mags steel reinforced like the true Russian counterparts, or is it just straight plastic with a metal feed lip clip like the Promags?



#34 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 10:12 PM

I was looking around for some other stuff and stumbled across some 5 round K USA Saiga 12 mags. I think it was at legionusa.com


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#35 altiod223

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 07:35 PM

Thank you for the info. I might take a chance on one of those.



#36 dochoc

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 08:21 AM

 

At least the mag wasn't wobbling all over the place. I'd rather have to fit. Sounds like a winner.

Agreed. Not so long ago a US made Saiga assembled from top notch materials, with operating parts machined from solid billet was almost too much to hope for.

 

Given the way these are made, a $900 price tag isn't surprising. Hopefully (since the factory already has the capability to create one) we'll see a Version 030 iteration of the gun sometime in the not too distant future.

 

Mike the 030 version is available now in Europe. A Turkish company has done a similar licensing deal, but decided to produce a clone of the 030 version. They are called Armsan, and they are calling it the RS-S1. They are also making 10 round mags that are less than half the cost of the saiga/vepr versions. Time will tell on if they are reliable ! I picked one up yesterday. Not fired it yet but others report favourably. Vepr 12 mags will fit and function with the LRBHO, if they have the Saiga recess cut into the mag lip. Standard Saiga magwell mags will fit but don't obviously work the LRBHO. I would assume that 030 mags will also work and action the LRBHO. First impressions are that the mags will need to be fitted to the gun, as they are quite stiff to insert, and don't drop free. The vepr /saiga mags that belong to a magwell version pre 030 glide in like silk and drop free. The mag release will also need work as you cannot really action it without taking a hand off the gun. All small issues and very easily corrected. I assume that as with the other Turkish guns, Akda, UTAS, Bora etc that these will be readily available over there?


Edited by dochoc, 02 February 2018 - 08:23 AM.

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#37 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 08:37 AM

Not yet, at least.


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#38 JDeko

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 11:23 PM

Awwwwwwwwwwwwww Yeah! Spare parts if I need them!


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#39 mvtthxwstxphxn

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 01:16 AM

I have somewhere in the ballpark of 500 rds through my ks12. Last trip to the range while shooting a slug the dust cover came out of place and the bolt carrier stayed to the rear. Took the firearm home and had some trouble removing the bolt carrier from the receiver. Closer inspection revealed 2 rear trunnion rivets are bent, receiver looks damaged. Will be contacting K-USA this coming week. Will try to get a picture for yall. 


Edited by mvtthxwstxphxn, 13 May 2018 - 01:55 AM.

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#40 mvtthxwstxphxn

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 01:54 AM

on a more positive note, my mossberg shockwave chewed up the slugs

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Edited by mvtthxwstxphxn, 13 May 2018 - 01:57 AM.


#41 csspecs

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 06:38 PM

What gas setting?



#42 mvtthxwstxphxn

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:17 PM

gas setting #1



#43 G O B

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 10:54 AM

What recoil spring????


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#44 Veprz

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 05:28 PM

I wonder how many and how big the ports are? Would it be possible they over did the ports in a attempt to shake the "reliability issues" of the saiga's? Out of spec (soft) rivets? Underpowered recoil spring? Hows the rear trunnion looking? Aft end of the carrier?

I wouldnt mind hearing what Mike Rogers thinks, it seems he has alot of experience with the ks-12, possibly ones with much higher round count.

Hopefully K-USA takes care of it. If it was mine and it was out of warranty, Id take a good look at the ports (possibility of needing a more restrictive regulator), maybe swap the recoil spring, remove the old rivets/inspect the reciever + rivet holes and then order some combloc spec rivets and re rivet the trunnion. Could be a good excuse to go side folder! The good news is that from all reports you can use any parts that will fit a S-12, so you have options in getting it sorted out.

Id love to see them release a "firearm" braced version of the ks-12, similar to the trench-12.

Edited by Veprz, 14 May 2018 - 06:27 PM.

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#45 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 06:13 PM

I would want to see the recoil assembly (springs and rod), ports, and regulator. If the regular IZ-109 type is doing this, an 030/433/V12 version will not be wonderful.

Those rivets have to be super soft.
The shaft of those rivets is likely the wrong size or the holes in the receiver are too large. There is a lot wrong there. Not huge deals, just stupid mistakes.
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#46 mvtthxwstxphxn

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 11:47 PM

All parts are oem, i'll get some more pictures as well. The rear of the receiver is bent to the naked eye. The rivet holes in the receiver now appear malformed from what i can see. I contacted K-USA and will be providing updates as i receive them. I truly don't believe i have 500rds through the firearm. The firearm was purchased new in December 2017



#47 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 08:49 AM

If you can get specifics of the recoil springs it would be helpful.
- Length when relaxed
- Outer diameter of coils
- Number of coils
- Diameter of wire

They should be using something around a 20 lb spring.



Is the guide rod bent?


A picture of the hammer spring might help.

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#48 G O B

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 10:34 AM

What ammo???  and - could there have been a muzzle constriction???


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#49 mvtthxwstxphxn

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 09:53 PM

factory off the shelf store bought ammo. 

 

i haven't taken down the guide rod but it appears fine to the naked eye.


Edited by mvtthxwstxphxn, 15 May 2018 - 09:54 PM.


#50 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:54 AM

See if the guide rod has a downward bend in it about 1" from the rear of it.

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#51 mvtthxwstxphxn

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 04:33 PM

-Length when relaxed : approx 155-155.5mm

 

- Outer diameter of coils : approx 11mm-11.5mm 
 

- Number of coils : 33 between the "end coils"
 

- Diameter of wire : (I believe you are asking for the thickness of the wire here) 1.2mm

 

I'm sure my measurements aren't the best, but it's an estimate

 

 

I don't visually see a bend in the guide rod, though I am reluctantly paranoid to take it apart because I don't want to mislead the manufacturer into believing i was running aftermarket recoil springs when i wasn't.


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#52 mvtthxwstxphxn

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 04:40 PM

hammer spring

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#53 Mike Rogers

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 06:17 PM

Looks like the hammer's been profiled. Other than that, looks pretty standard. I'm curious about what if any other work has been done to the gun,

 

As for the rear trunnion, I've seen this before on a Saiga that came in with the rear trunnion which had been run with several cases of 3" magnum shells on gas setting #2.

 

We just replaced the rear trunnion,  and educated the customer with regard to proper gas system settings. As far as I know that took care of the problem.


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#54 Veprz

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 09:14 PM

Mike, how have the KS-12's youve been around holding up? What kind of round counts?

Matthewstephen, have you heard from K-USA? Heres their chance to be a stand up company and get this sorted out.
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#55 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 05:50 AM

I'm glad to see they are using a traditional hammer spring.


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#56 Mike Rogers

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 07:47 AM

Mike, how have the KS-12's youve been around holding up? What kind of round counts?

Matthewstephen, have you heard from K-USA? Heres their chance to be a stand up company and get this sorted out.

 

So far, every KS-12 I've worked with has been top notch. I've got one with several thousand rounds through it at this point, and the gun runs beautifully. Still very impressed.


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#57 Veprz

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 04:36 PM

Thats good to hear, thank you for the reply. This may be a isolated incident and I hope so because the KS-12 has been looking very promising.
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#58 mvtthxwstxphxn

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 07:20 PM

Looks like the hammer's been profiled. Other than that, looks pretty standard. I'm curious about what if any other work has been done to the gun,

 

As for the rear trunnion, I've seen this before on a Saiga that came in with the rear trunnion which had been run with several cases of 3" magnum shells on gas setting #2.

 

We just replaced the rear trunnion,  and educated the customer with regard to proper gas system settings. As far as I know that took care of the problem.

 

 

Hammer has been re-profiled. No other work done. No aftermarket parts on firearm. Only factory ammo has been used. Gas setting on #1 when the malfunction occurred while firing a slug.



#59 mvtthxwstxphxn

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 10:13 PM

Mike, how have the KS-12's youve been around holding up? What kind of round counts?

Matthewstephen, have you heard from K-USA? Heres their chance to be a stand up company and get this sorted out.

 

I agree 100%. I filled out their requested forms and am now currently awaiting their reply. Will keep yall updated.


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#60 saltydecimator

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 01:43 PM

im sure they will fix it.... its annoying, but nothing to fret over






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