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bye bye VEPR...

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Yay, this administration is exactly the opposite of the last one! Look at how empty the swamp is!

 

Oh and Russia RUSSIA RUSSIA!

 

Can we all just admit its a big joke and the president doesn't matter?

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Well, for the time being Veprs may be 'banned, but there seems to be plenty of stock left on dealer shelves, and we're in the middle of the summer lull, so I don't see them disappearing tomorrow.

 

Prices may go up, as with Saigas. But initially Veprs were much higher than they are now. Considering their utility and design, they'll be at that level again soon, and most likely higher. Not that long ago, Saiga Version 30's (the gun that Vepr 12's were cloned from) were selling out on pre-order at multiples of what a Vepr 12 sells for today, and that quickly evaporated when Vepr 12s became available

 

Chi-com clones flooded the market before and after the Saiga ban, and there will be more to fill the gap in the absence of new Vepr imports. I don't care for the Chinese clones i've seen so far, but I believe their introduction into the market has served to keep prices in check, and will likely continue to do so for existing Russian guns, and also for their American competitors.

 

Was looking at a brand new Kalashnikov USA KS-12 today, and thinking now that they have the Saiga IZ-109 cloned, It won't be much of a stretch to machine a few parts, send some specs off to a plastics shop, and quickly clone the Saiga Version 30/Vepr 12 platform. So, realistically - (IMHO) that would be the next logical move. There are a ton of parts already made in the US for the Version 30/Vepr 12 platform. I would be very surprised if K-USA (and potentially other US manufacturers) had not anticipated this possibility far in advance.

 

I love Russian guns - but I don't see this as a setback for this community. Russian Kalashnikovs were banned from import in 2014. Frankly, I expected the previous administration to ban Veprs as well, and was thrilled when that didn't happen. I was  genuinely surprised when the entire Senate voted to ban Veprs (What?). You may or may not agree, but here's my take... Banning imports from a bankrupt company was a cheap and easy shot for the swamp creatures. They -the swamp creatures- could distance themselves from "The Russians" (who are probably as confused as we are by this move), and appear to be tough, while targeting an insolvent company which assets are the subject of a bankruptcy proceeding, and up for sale. So, "Win-Win" for the swamp.

 

On the other side of the equation - with every American AK platform gun produced, Americans are employed. Every American gun produced here, means an American family keeps a roof over their heads, puts food on the table, and pays their bills with money generated here in the US. For me that is a particularly powerful paradigm, and one that needs to be repeated and multiplied a thousand fold, a thousand times over, in every aspect of American life, and in every segment of our economy.

 

American innovators, and American enthusiasts have in large part defined and developed modern AK platform guns. This forum, as thinly read as is currently is, has a worldwide following. Engineers, custom builders, and gunsmiths worldwide read our posts, watch our work, and develop products based upon the combined and  collaborative research of our many contributors.

 

I have no problem with American companies, enthusiasts, and craftsmen taking on the challenges that political 'bans' create. Make no mistake - given a level playing field,  we'll figure out how to make it better, cleaner, more reliable, sexier, and kick ass with it.

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Yay, this administration is exactly the opposite of the last one! Look at how empty the swamp is!

 

Oh and Russia RUSSIA RUSSIA!

 

Can we all just admit its a big joke and the president doesn't matter?

Lol.

These are not the Droids you're looking for.

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Mike, I think they are already doing an 030 type. I actually like the idea of the KS-12 better than the Vepr 12, assuming the metallurgy is as it should be. I have bigger fish to fry for the moment, but hope to get one in hand and see for myself. From your review, it appears to be a winner in the right areas. The absence of an adjustable gas system on the V12 is a limiting factor and it is the main reason I like the Saiga 12 better. I'm really happy to see the KS-012 available.

 

As far as this news goes, it doesn't concern me. I was about to diversify services anyway and I have plenty of custom work to do for a good while. An eventual slowing of shotgun work will just allow me more time to pursue other things. I named the company what I named it because I knew it would go through many evolutions. There is an ultimate goal that I am aiming for and all of what I have done for the past few years has been viewed as steps along the path. Never a dull moment...

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Yay, this administration is exactly the opposite of the last one! Look at how empty the swamp is!

 

Oh and Russia RUSSIA RUSSIA!

 

Can we all just admit its a big joke and the president doesn't matter?

 

Yeah I can see how some folks thought things would change and some things surely have but TPTB must be served and they want a war.

 

Now imagine Klinton had won, just from what you know about her imagine what she would have done these last six months.

Holy shit snacks Archer, what a nightmare.. 

 

So I guess it does matter to that extent, but fix this mess? Nope

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Well, for the time being Veprs may be 'banned, but there seems to be plenty of stock left on dealer shelves, and we're in the middle of the summer lull, so I don't see them disappearing tomorrow.

 

Prices may go up, as with Saigas. But initially Veprs were much higher than they are now. Considering their utility and design, they'll be at that level again soon, and most likely higher. Not that long ago, Saiga Version 30's (the gun that Vepr 12's were cloned from) were selling out on pre-order at multiples of what a Vepr 12 sells for today, and that quickly evaporated when Vepr 12s became available

 

Chi-com clones flooded the market before and after the Saiga ban, and there will be more to fill the gap in the absence of new Vepr imports. I don't care for the Chinese clones i've seen so far, but I believe their introduction into the market has served to keep prices in check, and will likely continue to do so for existing Russian guns, and also for their American competitors.

 

Was looking at a brand new Kalashnikov USA KS-12 today, and thinking now that they have the Saiga IZ-109 cloned, It won't be much of a stretch to machine a few parts, send some specs off to a plastics shop, and quickly clone the Saiga Version 30/Vepr 12 platform. So, realistically - (IMHO) that would be the next logical move. There are a ton of parts already made in the US for the Version 30/Vepr 12 platform. I would be very surprised if K-USA (and potentially other US manufacturers) had not anticipated this possibility far in advance.

 

I love Russian guns - but I don't see this as a setback for this community. Russian Kalashnikovs were banned from import in 2014. Frankly, I expected the previous administration to ban Veprs as well, and was thrilled when that didn't happen. I was  genuinely surprised when the entire Senate voted to ban Veprs (What?). You may or may not agree, but here's my take... Banning imports from a bankrupt company was a cheap and easy shot for the swamp creatures. They -the swamp creatures- could distance themselves from "The Russians" (who are probably as confused as we are by this move), and appear to be tough, while targeting an insolvent company which assets are the subject of a bankruptcy proceeding, and up for sale. So, "Win-Win" for the swamp.

 

On the other side of the equation - with every American AK platform gun produced, Americans are employed. Every American gun produced here, means an American family keeps a roof over their heads, puts food on the table, and pays their bills with money generated here in the US. For me that is a particularly powerful paradigm, and one that needs to be repeated and multiplied a thousand fold, a thousand times over, in every aspect of American life, and in every segment of our economy.

 

American innovators, and American enthusiasts have in large part defined and developed modern AK platform guns. This forum, as thinly read as is currently is, has a worldwide following. Engineers, custom builders, and gunsmiths worldwide read our posts, watch our work, and develop products based upon the combined and  collaborative research of our many contributors.

 

I have no problem with American companies, enthusiasts, and craftsmen taking on the challenges that political 'bans' create. Make no mistake - given a level playing field,  we'll figure out how to make it better, cleaner, more reliable, sexier, and kick ass with it.

 

Hello, Mike

 

Hear here, Sir! Very well stated.

Now, if our American business-minded President would stop worrying about who to export our Natural Gas surpluses to, or what to do with our recently liberated coal reserves, and come to the realization that re-awakening and rejuvenating our steel and alloy foundries are the answer to a becoming a true economic player again.

 A Country cannot become great and strong again when its' manufacturing base is dependent on imported steel and other base materials.

God forbid we have to go to war (could happen any day) without the facilities to smelt our own materials for the tools of war.

 

Our foundries were shut down ostensibly because high energy costs made them unprofitable. We currently have more dirt-cheap, clean burning fuel in the shape of Natural Gas than we know what to do with. Having domestic steel (and other high-tech alloys) would be the cornerstone to putting our manufacturing base back on track, and offering real competitiveness to industrial powerhouses such as China. And without that, just what exactly are we going to do with the hordes of quasi-literate Americans and invaders who now suck up unemployment and EBT dollars? 

 

-Guido in TX

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my question, guido, is do we really need manuf jobs? im not being snarky, i think we need to learn more about the future of societys that dont implode...

 

as far as steel for a war machine, that def is a no-brainer...

 

my other question, is inflation.... they sight high cost of fuel for shutting foundrys, but my question is how have we allowed the cost of everyting to increase, yet wages etc have not.  im not trying to convince you all to be occu-tards, im asking cause ive never had an economics class... allegedly houses didnt used to cost so much, so money truly was "expendable".  was the plan to force both spouses into workforce to be corp. slaves, all the while jr and sis get brainwashed by the commies at the school house?  i love conspiracy theories, thats no doubt, but what else explains everything concisely?

 

jsut spit balling folks....  if we need to start a new econ thread?

 

as far as V. goes, i  shall have a 6-12ga salute tomorrow... 

sad to see em go, best value in AK market i feel

 

as far as V. type replacement,  chaos and that other guy is the future.... clones are lame, lets innovate!!!

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as far as V. goes, i  shall have a 6-12ga salute tomorrow... 

sad to see em go, best value in AK market i feel

 

as far as V. type replacement,  chaos and that other guy is the future.... clones are lame, lets innovate!!!

 

 

+1 I think the R&R gun is cool, but it isn't designed for mass market. 

 

If Cameron's gun is nearly as good as it looks, at the claimed price point, I think the market will blow up. It doesn't have the "crappy AK..." stigma to the ar15 crowd, but it has the better parts of the operating mechanism and has the AR ergos and mag support to make it sell.

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