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what i support is a ban on "uncontrolled fire without a device to assist"

 

meaning, even if bum stocks go, ban hip firing them the same way, as it is "uncontrolled fire" .

 

laws that make sense.

 

 

Sounds logical. While they're at it, they should ban pistol braces from touching your shoulder too. Bi-pods, lets ban those since they helped stabilize his point of aim and made the boolitts fly flatter and straighter. Or maybe we can trade those to get AOW's off the NFA list. Hell yeah

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The Antis are NOT in the business of trading.. They offer total confiscation and then offer to meet in the middle of only taking half the stuff now and the other half later.. Then say how they agreed

Guys, we are not getting silencers or AOWs off the NFA in trade for anything right now.

Don't get me wrong. We are both on the same side.   Keep digging, Keep asking questions.   I will add two observances to this debate.   One: This sick fuck was spraying a condensed crowd. Under

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 The NRA is defending the overall second amendment right, and has done a pretty good job considering the massive power thrown against it.

 

Im more than happy to sacrifice a piece of mall ninja crap for the overarching importance of maintaining the full range of firearms we have now.

 

Its best to fight the battles that are the most important.

From the beginning of the slide fire and trigger activator crap I knew it was inevitable that nothing good would come from it.

 

BH 

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No offense offered please but that mall ninja crap seems to work, or we assume.

 

My gut says never give an inch cause you always end up losing a yard with these clowns.

But do as you wish there is no win attached to this insanity. 

Ban sticks as long you are at it cause that's all you need to bump fire a rifle pretty danged well.

Edited by Rhodes1968
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No offense offered please but that mall ninja crap seems to work, or we assume.

 

My gut says never give an inch cause you always end up losing a yard with these clowns.

But do as you wish there is no win attached to this insanity.

Ban sticks as long you are at it cause that's all you need to bump fire a rifle pretty danged well.

Rhodes, I couldn't agree with you more! High capacity mags will be next, 60 rounds way too many, common sense dictates we use 10 rounds or less (Cali law is very desirable from the left spread across the country). Ryan took cans off the table... Ryan, Graham, McCain and the rest will take not give... Edited by machinist
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the NRA folded like a cheap tent..

 

america didnt know what a bump fire stock was a few days ago..

 

now, they demand they MUST be banned!

 

(ETA: the LAST president to ban an ENTIRE class of weapons was a lifelong Democtat turned Republican.. just sayin'..)

 

It's hard to think of them as folding, when selling us out seems to be their default position.

 

It's like the news talking about John McCain "crossing the isle" to side with the Dems. I think he would have to cross the isle to side with the repubs...

 

GOA bills itself as "the only no-compromise gun lobby". I've been trying to come up with a similar slogan for the NRA. "Sign up and Sell out" fits on a bumper sticker, and they can use the same graphic design.

 

"Fund raise, run pathetic divisive ads on youtube, ignore everything other than CA and the East Coast, and then compromise on those two, claim credit for the actions of GOA and SAF when they actually do something, Fund Raise some more" is just a little too long for a slogan.

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You raise an interesting point and question. I'm not sure if you can get a bumpstock to work on a bipod. Anyone know?

There was a company located in Louisiana that made the "Recoil Rail".  The're no longer in business. The rail mounted under the handguard and used either a grip or a bipod with a bumpstock. It was spring loaded and increased the efficiency of the bump stock. No slow down in cyclic rate, complete mag dumps without stoppages.  They had gotten into a tiff with Slide Fire for using their name in the ads and Utube vids.  

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 The NRA is defending the overall second amendment right, and has done a pretty good job considering the massive power thrown against it.

 

Im more than happy to sacrifice a piece of mall ninja crap for the overarching importance of maintaining the full range of firearms we have now.

 

Its best to fight the battles that are the most important.

From the beginning of the slide fire and trigger activator crap I knew it was inevitable that nothing good would come from it.

 

BH 

 

The overall right? No. They are defending gun ownership for fudd stuff, not the universal ability to defend ourselves with equal or better arms against aggressors whether they be individuals, mobs, or governments. That's the 2A right, and it hasn't been a part of the NRA's rhetoric to the public or to legislators in my lifetime. It is during fundraising, kinda.

 

You raise an interesting point and question. I'm not sure if you can get a bumpstock to work on a bipod. Anyone know?

There was a company located in Louisiana that made the "Recoil Rail".  The're no longer in business. The rail mounted under the handguard and used either a grip or a bipod with a bumpstock. It was spring loaded and increased the efficiency of the bump stock. No slow down in cyclic rate, complete mag dumps without stoppages.  They had gotten into a tiff with Slide Fire for using their name in the ads and Utube vids.  

 

 

That was the Akins Accellerator. Bill Akins sold his rights to Fostech, who was a member here at the time to market their $400 bump stock.

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 The NRA is defending the overall second amendment right, and has done a pretty good job considering the massive power thrown against it.

 

Im more than happy to sacrifice a piece of mall ninja crap for the overarching importance of maintaining the full range of firearms we have now.

 

Its best to fight the battles that are the most important.

From the beginning of the slide fire and trigger activator crap I knew it was inevitable that nothing good would come from it.

 

BH 

 

The overall right? No. They are defending gun ownership for fudd stuff, not the universal ability to defend ourselves with equal or better arms against aggressors whether they be individuals, mobs, or governments. That's the 2A right, and it hasn't been a part of the NRA's rhetoric to the public or to legislators in my lifetime. It is during fundraising, kinda.

 

You raise an interesting point and question. I'm not sure if you can get a bumpstock to work on a bipod. Anyone know?

There was a company located in Louisiana that made the "Recoil Rail".  The're no longer in business. The rail mounted under the handguard and used either a grip or a bipod with a bumpstock. It was spring loaded and increased the efficiency of the bump stock. No slow down in cyclic rate, complete mag dumps without stoppages.  They had gotten into a tiff with Slide Fire for using their name in the ads and Utube vids.  

 

 

That was the Akins Accellerator. Bill Akins sold his rights to Fostech, who was a member here at the time to market their $400 bump stock.

 

Naw Gun.  I know what the Accellerator was and also what the Bumpski is.  This was in fact a rail that enclosed springs and it mounted to a rail and you could mount a grip or a bipod to it.  If you search it there may still be rements of info still on it. I almost bought one but opted for 2k GT 76239.

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I doubt we'll know anything for a long long time about this. Trump has said repeatedly that he doesn't talk about what he plans to do, so I take that with a grain of salt when thinking about information on the ass hat that shot these people, his connections or possible help. I also think the NRA has kept there eye on the prize which is our basic right to keep our firearms and right to protect ourselves. With the hearing protection act looming, hopefully those in the press and government show themselves to be as ignorant about cans as they are bump stock's. The bitch came really close when she said "thank god he didn't have a silencer", it was actually the flash suppression quality that was my concern that they were going after, thankfully it was only sound she referred to.

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The Republicans need to start controlling the "narrative", convincing the public that they are the sympathetic party that cares and protects the people.

 

Ban the bumpstock and then shut down the conversation about the 2A.

 

Give the DACA families green-cards (but not citizenship) and then build a massive surveillance apparatus on the border.

Edited by Sim_Player
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NRA called me last night bumming money with the "we're fighting for you" spiel. I was direct and told the guy on the phone that I was unhappy with much of what they have done for nearly the last decade and that until they start really fighting for us, they will not see a dime from me. He didn't contest that position and I would hazard a guess that he has been hearing that a lot. Yes, NRA, we are sick of paying you to compromise bits of the Second Amendment.

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I agree gunfun. GOA is the no compromise and i am a paying member. NRA is a bunch of fudds willing to kick whatever over if it means they can keep their wood stock hunting rifles and shotguns.

 

We are on a forum that covers a weapon that is foreign made and can be converted to look like an evil black gun. Hell in stock form its pretty menacingly as well.

 

We should all be on the same page here. "Shall not be infringed"

 

They have been at both the 1st and second and many of the original bill of rights for years, thats how we got into this politically correct and snowflake mess.

 

Make your line in the sand and get some balls and lets start with calling these gun groups, youtubers, and those that are supposed to represent us and tell them how we really feel, before we end up like any of the other gun ban countries and have to do what our fore fathers did to kick the crown out. The crown has been trying to get control since.

 

I've called and i use GOA's email feature alot to contact the congress critters and the white house. Its really not as time consuming as it once was.

Edited by montec
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While I am not big on bumpfire stocks being banned.. I don't mind the idea of Cottle having his ass thrown under the bus.. He was a fool to sell them.

 

Threatening a lawsuit against someone for stealing your "patented invention" two and a half years before you claimed to invent it is just dumb.

Cottle is not much of an inventor, he has only slightly improved on his device in the last seven years.. When we stopped work on bumpfire items over a year and a half before he 'invented' his stock, we had eight separate devices including models for pistols, rate reducers, burst generators (three to fire round selectable) recoil absorbing shotgun models, and a spade grip mounted model.. Generally inventors invent more than a single device.

 

Akins device was an overly complicated isolation unit that held the entire rifle on glides and springs, but he for sure did invent it.. Me and my brother came up with the self contained telescoping stock design that Cottle patented two and a half years after we posted it to youtube... Interestingly Fostech used the Akins patent to try to sue Cottle of slide fire and lost with exception of the finger rest, which was found to be a feature, when Akins sort of implied a lawsuit toward me, I checked his patent claims verse our device and found no cross over because we used no finger rest. When Akins sold his patent to Fostech the device they made was almost a complete copy of our crude stock and was supplied with our ATF letter that was obtained with a FOIA request.

 

 

We had wanted to sell the device in late 2008 and had even contacted a injection molder with the idea of making them.. But we felt that the item was to risky to sell, because it was possible to have full auto accidental discharges by pointing the rifle at a low angle.. And the device was just too attractive to criminal misuse.. If the information I got was correct we likely lost out on a few Million bucks by not making it. But not everything in this world is money.

 

I still agree with my and my partners choices back at the end of 2008 that bumpstocks are not a good idea to sell.

 

This was a video that had over 80K views when it was flagged on youtube in 2011 as a violation and deleted, it was recorded September of 2008 .. I uploaded it a few months ago to show to a guy on AK files. I think the videos done between 2008 and 2009 had almost 250K views between them.

 

https://youtu.be/gcVi2IbOQfU

Edited by csspecs
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Bah forget the politicians, they are not worth the attention or legitamacy we give them. 

 

I knew there were multiple shooters and now people are anyalizing the audio and proving the point.

But believe what .gov tells you by all means.

http://www.captainsjournal.com/2017/10/05/the-collapse-of-the-government-narrative-on-the-las-vegas-shooting/

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Uninterrupted full auto with a burst from a different weapon in the middle of the that full auto string. Sounds like two shooters, for sure. Had it been an echo it would have been doing it the entire time.

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I don't know how many times I have heard the left crying that they have the 1st ammendment to protect what they falsefully claim as truthful.  Then they are shouting for elimination of the 2nd Ammendment.  Are these sheeple so freakin stupid that they really don't realize that without the 2nd Ammendment there would be no 1st ammendment.  Just look at HISTORY.  

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An AR with a good compensator is way more effective than a bump stock could ever be, even with a compensator.

We need to realize that the bump stock Is not a gun , it s a add on part but so is a scope or a Red dot.

The problem I have is, just because you do not like something it is no reason to ban it from people who do.

Like I told my wife who does not see the point in bump stocks , You may not but someone responsible does ,so leave it alone.

I told her it was like when I bought her a new car, she wanted black and I did not.

We got a black car and I just had to deal with it until I got over it.

Bump stocks need to stay, it is a personal choice of a responsible person until they go postal (not before) .

And that is what they are trying to do, they are saying we are all going to go postal and we cannot be trusted

Did this nut use a scope? I bet He did so why are scopes not being talked about?

This is about responsible free choice nothing more and they will take it away if we let them. If they do what will be next.

Like I said, today you are a law abiding person but tomorrow you will be a felon

The NRA does not get it.

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While I am not big on bumpfire stocks being banned.. I don't mind the idea of Cottle having his ass thrown under the bus.. He was a fool to sell them.

 

Threatening a lawsuit against someone for stealing your "patented invention" two and a half years before you claimed to invent it is just dumb.

Cottle is not much of an inventor, he has only slightly improved on his device in the last seven years.. When we stopped work on bumpfire items over a year and a half before he 'invented' his stock, we had eight separate devices including models for pistols, rate reducers, burst generators (three to fire round selectable) recoil absorbing shotgun models, and a spade grip mounted model.. Generally inventors invent more than a single device.

 

Akins device was an overly complicated isolation unit that held the entire rifle on glides and springs, but he for sure did invent it.. Me and my brother came up with the self contained telescoping stock design that Cottle patented two and a half years after we posted it to youtube... Interestingly Fostech used the Akins patent to try to sue Cottle of slide fire and lost with exception of the finger rest, which was found to be a feature, when Akins sort of implied a lawsuit toward me, I checked his patent claims verse our device and found no cross over because we used no finger rest. When Akins sold his patent to Fostech the device they made was almost a complete copy of our crude stock and was supplied with our ATF letter that was obtained with a FOIA request.

 

 

We had wanted to sell the device in late 2008 and had even contacted a injection molder with the idea of making them.. But we felt that the item was to risky to sell, because it was possible to have full auto accidental discharges by pointing the rifle at a low angle.. And the device was just too attractive to criminal misuse.. If the information I got was correct we likely lost out on a few Million bucks by not making it. But not everything in this world is money.

 

I still agree with my and my partners choices back at the end of 2008 that bumpstocks are not a good idea to sell.

 

This was a video that had over 80K views when it was flagged on youtube in 2011 as a violation and deleted, it was recorded September of 2008 .. I uploaded it a few months ago to show to a guy on AK files. I think the videos done between 2008 and 2009 had almost 250K views between them.

 

https://youtu.be/gcVi2IbOQfU

 

WTF guys?! I clicked on that video link and got a flashing red screen, virus alerts out the wazoo, bait-n-switch links trying to get me to do something and I had to use Task Manager to End Task on Firefox!!  nonono.gif

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I agree gunfun. GOA is the no compromise and i am a paying member. NRA is a bunch of fudds willing to kick whatever over if it means they can keep their wood stock hunting rifles and shotguns. cushy lifetime lobbying jobs.

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While I am not big on bumpfire stocks being banned.. I don't mind the idea of Cottle having his ass thrown under the bus.. He was a fool to sell them.

 

Threatening a lawsuit against someone for stealing your "patented invention" two and a half years before you claimed to invent it is just dumb.

Cottle is not much of an inventor, he has only slightly improved on his device in the last seven years.. When we stopped work on bumpfire items over a year and a half before he 'invented' his stock, we had eight separate devices including models for pistols, rate reducers, burst generators (three to fire round selectable) recoil absorbing shotgun models, and a spade grip mounted model.. Generally inventors invent more than a single device.

 

Akins device was an overly complicated isolation unit that held the entire rifle on glides and springs, but he for sure did invent it.. Me and my brother came up with the self contained telescoping stock design that Cottle patented two and a half years after we posted it to youtube... Interestingly Fostech used the Akins patent to try to sue Cottle of slide fire and lost with exception of the finger rest, which was found to be a feature, when Akins sort of implied a lawsuit toward me, I checked his patent claims verse our device and found no cross over because we used no finger rest. When Akins sold his patent to Fostech the device they made was almost a complete copy of our crude stock and was supplied with our ATF letter that was obtained with a FOIA request.

 

 

We had wanted to sell the device in late 2008 and had even contacted a injection molder with the idea of making them.. But we felt that the item was to risky to sell, because it was possible to have full auto accidental discharges by pointing the rifle at a low angle.. And the device was just too attractive to criminal misuse.. If the information I got was correct we likely lost out on a few Million bucks by not making it. But not everything in this world is money.

 

I still agree with my and my partners choices back at the end of 2008 that bumpstocks are not a good idea to sell.

 

This was a video that had over 80K views when it was flagged on youtube in 2011 as a violation and deleted, it was recorded September of 2008 .. I uploaded it a few months ago to show to a guy on AK files. I think the videos done between 2008 and 2009 had almost 250K views between them.

 

https://youtu.be/gcVi2IbOQfU

 

WTF guys?! I clicked on that video link and got a flashing red screen, virus alerts out the wazoo, bait-n-switch links trying to get me to do something and I had to use Task Manager to End Task on Firefox!!  nonono.gif

 

 

Link is a standard short youtube link as far as I see.. Could be you have a bug in your flash player or similar.

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While I am not big on bumpfire stocks being banned.. I don't mind the idea of Cottle having his ass thrown under the bus.. He was a fool to sell them.

 

Threatening a lawsuit against someone for stealing your "patented invention" two and a half years before you claimed to invent it is just dumb.

Cottle is not much of an inventor, he has only slightly improved on his device in the last seven years.. When we stopped work on bumpfire items over a year and a half before he 'invented' his stock, we had eight separate devices including models for pistols, rate reducers, burst generators (three to fire round selectable) recoil absorbing shotgun models, and a spade grip mounted model.. Generally inventors invent more than a single device.

 

Akins device was an overly complicated isolation unit that held the entire rifle on glides and springs, but he for sure did invent it.. Me and my brother came up with the self contained telescoping stock design that Cottle patented two and a half years after we posted it to youtube... Interestingly Fostech used the Akins patent to try to sue Cottle of slide fire and lost with exception of the finger rest, which was found to be a feature, when Akins sort of implied a lawsuit toward me, I checked his patent claims verse our device and found no cross over because we used no finger rest. When Akins sold his patent to Fostech the device they made was almost a complete copy of our crude stock and was supplied with our ATF letter that was obtained with a FOIA request.

 

 

We had wanted to sell the device in late 2008 and had even contacted a injection molder with the idea of making them.. But we felt that the item was to risky to sell, because it was possible to have full auto accidental discharges by pointing the rifle at a low angle.. And the device was just too attractive to criminal misuse.. If the information I got was correct we likely lost out on a few Million bucks by not making it. But not everything in this world is money.

 

I still agree with my and my partners choices back at the end of 2008 that bumpstocks are not a good idea to sell.

 

This was a video that had over 80K views when it was flagged on youtube in 2011 as a violation and deleted, it was recorded September of 2008 .. I uploaded it a few months ago to show to a guy on AK files. I think the videos done between 2008 and 2009 had almost 250K views between them.

 

https://youtu.be/gcVi2IbOQfU

 

I remember your video and also the pms you sent me a year or two before the slidefires came out. You convinced me that at the time, while they were technically legal,that the BATFE was willing to ruin people's lives who wanted to make an issue of it. I still have a half dozen not quite finished examples made of steel. I haven't been in a hurry to finish them, but now I wonder if it would be worth doing so for grandfathering purposes.

 

I think Slide fire  made a surprisingly crude version of the idea given their price, but I am glad they sold it on a large enough scale to force the BATFE into a corner. The AK version managed to be ugly and not match the aesthetics of an AK and so wobbly that it almost negated the benefit of being able to shoulder bump.

 

 

I didn't know that Cotttle (slide fire??) threatened you with lawsuits. It was a common idea. Saigatech had some with roller slide bearings IIRC with videos up around the time too. 

Link worked for me with no problems.

I might add without the NRA we would have already lost our 2nd amendment rights.

 

BH

 

Which NRA though? The organization is run by different people, so it is really a different organization. Harvard used to be a seminary, but I don't think of them as a gospel society now.

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Yeah they basically act like a patent troll and shut down items that are not covered by their patents.. They are based in TX and it is basically impossible to win against someone based in TX.

 

I do often question how slidefire managed to stay out of trouble with ATF since my contact suggested any wide spread sales would result in a reclassification..

 

I don't know how grandfathering would work.. Most likely it would be like the Akins device.

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