Havoc308 3 Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 I have a problem with the bolt missing the base of the cartridges when using all five of my bulgarian poly ak-74 magazines and robarms followers. They lock in fine and only have a problem when loaded with 20 + cartridges. The base of the cartridges seems to dip and only the front of the feed lips hold them. Is there some place I can grind on these to make them work or should I buy some .223 mags? Havoc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vick 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 I have a problem with the bolt missing the base of the cartridges when using all five of my bulgarian poly ak-74 magazines and robarms followers. They lock in fine and only have a problem when loaded with 20 + cartridges. The base of the cartridges seems to dip and only the front of the feed lips hold them. Is there some place I can grind on these to make them work or should I buy some .223 mags? Havoc The rear of the follower in the '74 mags is too low. It has to be raised about 3/16th's of an inch to make up the difference in the cases between 5.45 and 5.56. You'll need to either switch out the followers for the Robarms followers made for the conversion, or use the grey kneading epoxy to build up the rear of the follower yourself. This is the method I used, and it works great. There is a tutorial w/pics in the tech section. Once you see the pics, it's really easy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Havoc308 3 Posted December 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 I did use Robarms followers. I think the springs in those mags was a little more used than I would like. Anyway, solved the mag issue by replacing them with new Galil orlites. Less than 1 minute each with the trusty Dremel. I previously installed a shameless rip-off of Vjor's bullet guide for flat bottom trunions. Feeds like a champ. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Havoc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
40bikes 0 Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 Havoc, On another post I asked about Robarms followers in the Galil mags, the point being an "el Cheapo" conversion using the galils w/US followers, homemade floor plates and the G2 FCG to reduce the foreign parts for compliance. Could I persuade you to try the Rob followers in a galil and function test for me? If they work, and you aren't going to use them in your rifle I'll buy your Robarm followers. I've got 3 Saigas to convert so If I can skip buying US stock parts for the .223 it would help keep costs down. Let me know if you can help, thanks, bikes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Havoc308 3 Posted December 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 (edited) Sorry Bikes, don't think they will work. The robarms followers will not even go into the Galil mags. However, the Galil follower looks like an AR-15 follower. ar follower the Galil is on the right. I will try an ar follower in galil mag for you after Christmas. Merry Christmas, Havoc Edited December 24, 2006 by Havoc308 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
40bikes 0 Posted December 24, 2006 Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 Thanks Havoc for the response. I appreciate the help and my next question was gonna be about the AR followers . Thanks for the Midway link. The best of Christmas' to you and yours, bikes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Havoc308 3 Posted December 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Ok Bikes AR followers do fit in Orlites. Just grind the front of the follower to fit the angled galil mag and grind the protrusion on the back side flush with the rest of the follower. However, all I had on hand was the older followers without the anti-cant "legs" in the front and the one I modified would not feed, holds the cases too low and the cartridges struck my bullet guide. Might be that I don't have the right angle on the bullet guide but it works with galil followers. I think with the green followers and the proper motivation it just might work. YMMV Have a Peaceful and Happy New Year Havoc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
40bikes 0 Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Ok Bikes AR followers do fit in Orlites. Just grind the front of the follower to fit the angled galil mag and grind the protrusion on the back side flush with the rest of the follower. However, all I had on hand was the older followers without the anti-cant "legs" in the front and the one I modified would not feed, holds the cases too low and the cartridges struck my bullet guide. Might be that I don't have the right angle on the bullet guide but it works with galil followers. I think with the green followers and the proper motivation it just might work. YMMV Have a Peaceful and Happy New Year Havoc Thanks for all the research involved,Havoc. I'll take advantage of the greenies at Midway and get a couple of extras to send to you to replace the ones expended in your experiment. Will PM you or post here with results and get your address so I can repay your kindness. Thanks again, Happy New Year to you and yours,bikes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Havoc308 3 Posted December 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 (edited) Don't worry about it Bikes, the follower came out of a bent up mag. Have you considered making your own stocks? I bought some birch ply wood and made my own. Total cost about 15 bucks minus the recoil pad. Looks a little crude, cause it is, but shoulders nice and lines up with the scope. nice bedspread huh Happy New Year, Havoc Edited December 29, 2006 by Havoc308 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
40bikes 0 Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Don't worry about it Bikes, the follower came out of a bent up mag. Have you considered making your own stocks? I bought some birch ply wood and made my own. Total cost about 15 bucks minus the recoil pad. Looks a little crude, cause it is, but shoulders nice and lines up with the scope. nice bedspread huh Happy New Year, Havoc To late, Havoc already ordered some extras so I'll have half a dozen for you later. I don't even own an AR. You did a great job on your stock but on a scale of custom cedar craftsman down to plywood plunderer I'm about a Hickory Hacker. The only woody Saiga I'm doing is replacing the factory stuff to make a Galaz imposter of my long .308. I've already contracted w/BRG3 for the fore-end and I cut down a Maddi or MISR thumbhole for the butt end. Did you just use shaped aluminum sheet for the cheek rest? That's what I was thinking. How did you "upholster" it? Is it height adjustable? Ambidexterous? Inquiring minds want to know, at least half a mind, anyway. The bedspread? UH.....Your wife must really be something..Your a lucky man. Happy New Year, thanks again, bikes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
inparidel 4 Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 I have a problem with the bolt missing the base of the cartridges when using all five of my bulgarian poly ak-74 magazines and robarms followers. They lock in fine and only have a problem when loaded with 20 + cartridges. The base of the cartridges seems to dip and only the front of the feed lips hold them. Is there some place I can grind on these to make them work or should I buy some .223 mags? Havoc The rear of the follower in the '74 mags is too low. It has to be raised about 3/16th's of an inch to make up the difference in the cases between 5.45 and 5.56. You'll need to either switch out the followers for the Robarms followers made for the conversion, or use the grey kneading epoxy to build up the rear of the follower yourself. This is the method I used, and it works great. There is a tutorial w/pics in the tech section. Once you see the pics, it's really easy. I am glad that my brainchild of five years ago is still out there! That is the fix. Search this site and ak-47.net to find even pics and schematics of the process. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
inparidel 4 Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Don't worry about it Bikes, the follower came out of a bent up mag. Have you considered making your own stocks? I bought some birch ply wood and made my own. Total cost about 15 bucks minus the recoil pad. Looks a little crude, cause it is, but shoulders nice and lines up with the scope. nice bedspread huh Happy New Year, Havoc Bro. . .that wood stock is one helluva way to answer--and beat-- the BS, now dead, '94 AWB. That's how I gotr near PGs on my rifles and Saiga shotties. VERY COOL!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Havoc308 3 Posted December 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 (edited) The cheek piece is bent 3/8 aluminum. That was a real pain to bend. The cover on the cheek piece is just a mouse pad top side down. Its on there with #90 spray adhesive from 3M. I "designed" the stock by picking one on the Mcmillian website, printing it and blew it up on a copier. Used that as a pattern, cut 2 pieces of 3/4 ply and laminated them together with Gorilla Glue and my 110lb anvil. Shaped it using a dremel and a belt (bench) grinder from Sears. Finished poorly in leftover Pecan Minwax stain/polyurathane. It's not ambidexterous there is a dished cutout on the other side for your thumb. The cheek piece is adjustable in that you can take the woodscrews out, move it and put them back in. Here are some more pics, just don't look too close. I think the knot give it some character. It's taken some dings in the 4 years since I made it. Makes a Saiga 308 a very serious impact weapon. It's not long for this world, just got in my laminate stock blanks from Sarco. I am thinking either RPK or Valmet M76 style stock when I convert this rifle. I am developing a design for a handguard that requires no handguard retainer. Will post pics when I'm thru. My wife is something, married me at 17, and has stuck with me for 16 years and still puts up with my ideosyncracies. She has learned not to cringe when I say I've been to the gun shop or when UPS arrives. Good woman. Edited December 30, 2006 by Havoc308 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
40bikes 0 Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 Havoc, the stock looks good to me(think of the knot as Cindy Crawfords mole or Lauren Huttens gapped front teeth). I appreciate your cheek rest ideas but 3/8 aluminum?, I guess you found that "bigger hammer." My better half is just that and has seen me through nearly 30 yrs, 2 fine sons, 40 fireams, and 50 motorcycles that have kept us in the same neighborhood as the poor house most of the time. Same mold as your beloved, We are lucky men. Interested in your hand guard when you get it together. You may inspire me to try some wood butchering yet; but since I don't have that big anvil I may have to get my 170lb. kid to do lamination press duties: insert food regularly, provide game controller. Thanks for the details on your stock design. Again Happy New Year, bikes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Havoc308 3 Posted January 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 (edited) Bikes, Got your package. My 9yr old has been getting the mail while I've been on nights. It was stuffed in with all the other mail. Thanks a bunch. I will be hacking on these real soon and give a report. As far as the 3/8 aluminum, It was handy and my nickname from the USAF is "the Vanilla Gorilla". Havoc Edited January 20, 2007 by Havoc308 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 ...I will be hacking on these real soon and give a report. Looking forward to hearing what results you get - reliable US-made followers for the Orlites would be pretty slick! Combine the US-made follower with US-made floorplates & FCG (plus muzzle device, if threaded), and you could put any furniture you want on the rifle... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
40bikes 0 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Havoc, sorry I didn't get back to you, I've been hanging out with my son before he leaves the nest to move to Denver. HAD to buy another project bike so we've been busy with that. I butchered a couple of the followers before I went off the grid and don't have it down yet. I'm getting closer and will need to armorall the mags before I proceed. If I have a breakthrough I'll post a new thread. BTW two ?s: How is the forearm project coming and did you use 3/4 in. or 1 in. plywood for your stock? Glad you got the package, my pleasure, 40(52 and counting)bikes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 ...I think with the green followers and the proper motivation it just might work... Anything to report on using modified green followers in the Orlites, Compadre? ;>) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Havoc308 3 Posted February 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 They work. I went through about 4 of them before I got one that really worked well. Trim off the tab at the rear flush with the rest of the follower. Then, gently dremel the front corners until it almost goes in to the mag. Just cut them oversize compared to the Galil follower and sand with progressively finer sandpaper until they cut parts are very smooth otherwise the follower will hang. Also, an application of dry graphite seems to help the movement of the follower. Sorry, no pics, the mag is in my range bag, which I left in my brother in law's car. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 They work. I went through about 4 of them before I got one that really worked well. Trim off the tab at the rear flush with the rest of the follower. Then, gently dremel the front corners until it almost goes in to the mag. Just cut them oversize compared to the Galil follower and sand with progressively finer sandpaper until they cut parts are very smooth otherwise the follower will hang. Also, an application of dry graphite seems to help the movement of the follower. Sorry, no pics, the mag is in my range bag, which I left in my brother in law's car. Congratulations, Sir! You've just proved-up another low cost 'compliance' part for .223 Saiga use! I'll have to order some green followers ASAP! (But now I'm wondering if I should also get some of the Magpul 4-way anti-tilt followers, for a little experimentation, too - now that you've shown the green followers can work? ;>) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 They work. I went through about 4 of them before I got one that really worked well. Trim off the tab at the rear flush with the rest of the follower. Then, gently dremel the front corners until it almost goes in to the mag. Just cut them oversize compared to the Galil follower and sand with progressively finer sandpaper until they cut parts are very smooth otherwise the follower will hang. Also, an application of dry graphite seems to help the movement of the follower. Sorry, no pics, the mag is in my range bag, which I left in my brother in law's car. Some more info & photos here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=21087 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Messiah Jones 2 Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 I have a problem with the bolt missing the base of the cartridges when using all five of my bulgarian poly ak-74 magazines and robarms followers. They lock in fine and only have a problem when loaded with 20 + cartridges. The base of the cartridges seems to dip and only the front of the feed lips hold them. Is there some place I can grind on these to make them work or should I buy some .223 mags? Did you ever solve this? I want my 5.45 mags to work in .223/5.56 AKs and still be functional in 5.45 too... without spending too much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 I have a problem with the bolt missing the base of the cartridges when using all five of my bulgarian poly ak-74 magazines and robarms followers. They lock in fine and only have a problem when loaded with 20 + cartridges. The base of the cartridges seems to dip and only the front of the feed lips hold them. Is there some place I can grind on these to make them work or should I buy some .223 mags? Did you ever solve this? I want my 5.45 mags to work in .223/5.56 AKs and still be functional in 5.45 too... without spending too much. An EXCELLENT question (even though I don't use 5.45 mags ;>)... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Genocide 0 Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 I got some robarm followers for my '74 mags and they too wont feed when loaded with 20+rounds. Any idea of how to fix this yet? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Havoc308 3 Posted February 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 It turns out that it was just the British SS109 ammo I was using. It is the only thing that jammed up converted 74 mags with Robarms followers. The ammo worked fine out of converted Galil Orlites. Once you convert your 74 mags, I don't know how well they will function in a regular 74. You have to grind the area on top of the rear latch and modify the front to clear the Saiga trunion and feed ramp. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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