[SuA]

So, I was wondering, what is considered as the "best" production AK worldwide. price, legality and whatnot are not the issue. Any member of the AK family goes, although please don't go as far as naming the Galil. Preference goes out to 7.62x39mm, but other calibres are acceptable if you wish to nominate one such as the Beryl or whatnot.

The first that jumps to my mind is the Valmet/Sako Rk.95 (or it's ancestors Rk.76 & Rk.62). Anyone willing to put another rifle up against the Valmet?

[Folkien]

For pre-ban Soviet weapons, Bulgarian made AK's tend to have the best reputation and reliability. For pre-ban domestics, the IMI/MR Galils are -incredible- though they stretch the envelope for what can be considered an AK.

For post-ban and current foreign variants, Russia maintains that their 103 is the top of the line (believable, since their special forces seem to have no problem using these finely tooled, modernized guns that are -funnily enough- relatively unchanged from their counterparts 60 years ago). If you can't get an import of a civilian 103, which is likely, VEPR's and their variants are quickly developing a great reputation at a point in their service lives when most carbines would start running into problems.

As for post-ban domestics...
(But if you must, Century Arms stays pretty tight and true to the Kalashnikov tradition)

PS. I resent that Galil comment...

This post has been edited by Folkien: 22 February 2008 - 04:47 PM

[6500rpm]

Milled receiver Bulgarian gets my vote, but if you have to throw out the Galil, the Valmet's and R4's go out with it in my world

[Vultite]

as far as the bulgarian comment, i'll let that one slide....check it


http://www.ar15.com/...&...64&t=100547

PS: yes yes, its a crappy forum, but let it be known, a lot of them deep down inside love AK's, and they love to get schooled by us....nothing beats the real russian

[Combat Medic]

id have to say Zastava has a great offering when it comes to stamped receivers. im not a AK pro but i love mine and im not sure i want anything else.
 l_7be4f97f61c75e244db2743dd4120587.jpg (64.16K)
Number of downloads: 29

[Azrial]

The Valmet, R4, and the Galil in that order. I guess that the Saiga and the Arsenal would be 4th and 5th. Considering how many countries have produced the rifles that is not bad!

[saigaboy]

Interesting discussion.

On a closely related topic.

If you were to buy one more AK with price as a consideration what would it be?

I would like to keep the price below the 600 range.

On the list so far:
MAK 90
SSR 85C Bulgarian stamped receiver

Thanks.

This post has been edited by saigaboy: 23 February 2008 - 08:52 AM

[SuA]

Folkien, your thinking if far too much restricted by what is available or was available in the USA.
6500rpm, a Valmet still has the AK look & feels, while a Galil jumps calibre and looks vastly different. it also borrows much from other designs than the AK.
Combat Medic, i must admit i know fairly little about the Zastava rifles (well, the AK variants anyway, the bolt actions and whatnot are rather common in the EU).
Azrial, bulgies are fifth in your count? i must admit i've never given Arsenal a closer look.
saigaboy, how can you fail to list Saiga?

[TonyRumore]

Valmet is #1 in my book. I had a couple of original Galil's and they are nice guns, but heavy and not as accurate as the Valmet. I had a sizable collection of Valmets at one time, but only kept one....a .223 folder that averages 1.5" groups and occasionally will toss out a Sub-MOA group. (Pic - 3rd from the right) About 8 years ago, I took this gun to a CMP match and kicked everyone's ass with it. Out of about 40 shooters, that gun ended up #1 by a big margin.

Here's a small portion of my past collection.

Edited to add - L to R in the pic.
76 .308 Wood Stock
76 .308 Folder
76 .308 Plastic Stock (POS)
76 .308 Folder
62 x39 Fixed Tube
76 .223 Wood Stock
76 .223 Folder (The one that I kept)
78 .308 Wood
71 .223 Plastic Stock (POS)

[SuA]

ow man, that's just too friggin' sweet Tony...

i've been looking for a semi RK-95 forever, but those things are near impossible to find out here (EU). i'd certainly settle for an Rk76 or Rk62, as long as the furniture is right. i utterly hate the 'tube' stock though.

which Valmet/Sako do you prefer Tony?

PS: such a shame that you got rid of most of em!

This post has been edited by SuA: 23 February 2008 - 01:50 PM

[D.ID]

DAMB NICE collection, Since nobody brought up the lowly chinese milled receiver guns, I would like to offer a public service and suggest you don't muck up your collections with those things, just send them to me and I'll see that they get a good home........... You'll owe me but trust me in the long run its what is best for everyone..............

[Vultite]

milled receivers go kaboom just like a crappy made stamped one, stick with what works, get a heavy RPK receiver gun or a saiga, if i was going to go stamped, i'd roll with a thick receiver one or a newly made one

[Devil in Baggy Pants]

I would say....Valmet or the R4. I have a NHM-91 that I think is pretty nice. I have read that the AMD is the worst. That being said it is still prolly great.

[nalioth]

What is the cut off here?

Valmets are 2nd gen Kalashnikov designs.

Galils/R4 are 3d gen designs..


When does it stop being an AK?

Is a Robinson XCR considered an AK?

How bout the Kel-Tec SU-16?

The Daewoo K1 or K2 ?

[Gaddis]

Everything could be considered an AK by the news media.

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Number of downloads: 12

[Cryptkeeper]

RPK type AK's is what you want. here is a list of most all AK's http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/index.html

here is my perfered non saiga AK http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/nhm91.php

[Juggernaut]

Weren't Valmets the first ones to make it to the states?

[MCASSgt New River]

What about the Norinco MAK-90?......yeah, ok so it's all I got in 7.62x39

[Twinsen]

I haven't handled as many most of you guys, and I live in a ban state. So of the few that I get to see at out of state gun shows and shoots, I've liked the Galils the best.

[D.ID]

MCASgt Don't be frowning about a mak, I have a milled receiver mak-90 still holding the title for most accurate 7x62x39 ak I have shot and that includes probably fifty guns from seven or eight countries.........

[MCASSgt New River]

D.ID, on Feb 27 2008, 06:11 AM, said:

MCASgt Don't be frowning about a mak, I have a milled receiver mak-90 still holding the title for most accurate 7x62x39 ak I have shot and that includes probably fifty guns from seven or eight countries.........

Frowning because it's my "ONLY" 7.62x39 that I own.

[Combat Medic]

is it just me... or does anyone else find it a little more difficult to magazines in the Norinco? i passed over a Norinco RPK because i found it difficult to seat the mags....it this common or just me?

[MCASSgt New River]

Mine rock'n locks with ZERO problems.

[D.ID]

all my chinese AK guns lock up solid, I have not had any troubles of any kind.....Seams the ak series is one of the things the chinese do well (wonder how much of that is from soviet advisers) oh well it works, Everybody needs two 7.62s

[nib]

TonyRumore, on Feb 23 2008, 02:46 PM, said:

Valmet is #1 in my book. I had a couple of original Galil's and they are nice guns, but heavy and not as accurate as the Valmet. I had a sizable collection of Valmets at one time, but only kept one....a .223 folder that averages 1.5" groups and occasionally will toss out a Sub-MOA group. (Pic - 3rd from the right) About 8 years ago, I took this gun to a CMP match and kicked everyone's ass with it. Out of about 40 shooters, that gun ended up #1 by a big margin.

Here's a small portion of my past collection.

Edited to add - L to R in the pic.
76 .308 Wood Stock
76 .308 Folder
76 .308 Plastic Stock (POS)
76 .308 Folder
62 x39 Fixed Tube
76 .223 Wood Stock
76 .223 Folder (The one that I kept)
78 .308 Wood
71 .223 Plastic Stock (POS)

[nib]

nib, on Feb 27 2008, 04:21 PM, said:

TonyRumore, on Feb 23 2008, 02:46 PM, said:

Valmet is #1 in my book. I had a couple of original Galil's and they are nice guns, but heavy and not as accurate as the Valmet. I had a sizable collection of Valmets at one time, but only kept one....a .223 folder that averages 1.5" groups and occasionally will toss out a Sub-MOA group. (Pic - 3rd from the right) About 8 years ago, I took this gun to a CMP match and kicked everyone's ass with it. Out of about 40 shooters, that gun ended up #1 by a big margin.

Here's a small portion of my past collection.

Edited to add - L to R in the pic.
76 .308 Wood Stock
76 .308 Folder
76 .308 Plastic Stock (POS)
76 .308 Folder
62 x39 Fixed Tube
76 .223 Wood Stock
76 .223 Folder (The one that I kept)
78 .308 Wood
71 .223 Plastic Stock (POS)

[nib]

Is that first one a stamped 76w in .223 or is it a stamped 76w in 308. I know it has been 8 years since the pic but I have never seen a stamped 76 308. So that was a rare one.
I curently have over 40 of your Bulgi mags and 17 Valmets. Your mags made me loose it and get into Valmets again.

62ribbed 62 wood 62 wood plastic 71p 71w 76tf 308 76milled x39 76wood 308 76 tf 76 tf 76w 78/83 78.223 78 x39 78 308 82 and a fricken 308 hunter.

All I need is a 76 milled folder in 7.62x39 and I swear to god I will quit.

[macbeau]

I consider the evolution of the AK to be as follows.

Gen1 AK-47 (late 40's - early 50's)
Gen2 AKM (mid 50's - early 70's)
Gen3 Valmet 62 (60's)
Gen4 Valmet 76 / Galil AR & ARM / AK-74 (mid-70's)
quasi-Gen5 AK-103 (90's)

Beyong that - you get into stuff that is a hybrid that uses AK sub-systems (usually the gas system) incorporated into AR sub-systems (usually the upper/lower receiver arrangement and/or sight system). The perfect example that comes to mind is the FNC and, more recently, the Robinson XCR (The latter of which I have not heard very much positive press on by competition shooters or "operators").

I have owned 2 FNC and really liked them, but I prefer my AA Galil ARM and it is probably the most accurate semi-auto rifle I own - out to about 250 yds. (The very first Galil's were build by Israel on un-marked stamped Valmet receivers - later on they were milled "in-house"). I sold my first FNC for $450 to get my Galil - back in 1988 - for $750 NIB w 3 mags.... (My - how times have changed!). The Second FNC I traded in on an HK 33 which turned me off of HK rifles for good (very uncomfortable to shoot and accuracy was never better than ...)

When talking of calibers... which production caliber in the last 30 years are you refering too? Tried and true 7.62x39, 5.45x39, 5.56x45, 7.62x51, 7.92x57 (8mm Mauser) or 7.62x54R. I have even seen ones in 6.5x55 Swede and 7.62x45 Czech, though I would hardly view these as "standard production" guns.
That said - for the money, I really like the quality of the Russian and Chinese AK's. The Yugo, Romanian (real stuff - not WASR stuff) and Bulgy AK's a really pretty decent too.

Just my humble honest opinion...

Macbeau sends...

[nalioth]

macbeau, on Feb 27 2008, 05:37 PM, said:

I consider the evolution of the AK to be as follows.

Gen1 AK-47 (late 40's - early 50's)
Gen2 AKM (mid 50's - early 70's)
Gen3 Valmet 62 (60's)
Gen4 Valmet 76 / Galil AR & ARM / AK-74 (mid-70's)
quasi-Gen5 AK-103 (90's)

I have to disagee. I was not referring to generations in regard to issue or manufacture date, but in terms of features and parts intercompatiblity.

Gen1 = AK47
Gen2 = AKM/AK74/AK-100 Series
Gen3 = Valmet
Gen3.1 = Galil

[macbeau]

nalioth, on Feb 27 2008, 06:47 PM, said:

macbeau, on Feb 27 2008, 05:37 PM, said:

I consider the evolution of the AK to be as follows.

Gen1 AK-47 (late 40's - early 50's)
Gen2 AKM (mid 50's - early 70's)
Gen3 Valmet 62 (60's)
Gen4 Valmet 76 / Galil AR & ARM / AK-74 (mid-70's)
quasi-Gen5 AK-103 (90's)

I have to disagee. I was not referring to generations in regard to issue or manufacture date, but in terms of features and parts intercompatiblity.

Gen1 = AK47
Gen2 = AKM/AK74/AK-100 Series
Gen3 = Valmet
Gen3.1 = Galil

Okay - Fair enough. I think that beyond the Galil / Valmet 76, you get into the hybrid stuff like the FNC, Robinson XCR, and piston-driven AR stuff.

A. Lots of folks like the AR's fine machining, mag well, mag release, trigger group, upper/lower receiver arrangement and selector.
B. Lots of folks also like the AK's simplicity, direct gas piston, positive extraction/ejection of cases, light weight steel construction, gas-ringless bolt and under/side folding stock.

Much of what you see "new" today (in whatever caliber) is basically an almagimation of both systems, trying to acheive the best of both worlds...
...for what it's worth...

The choice is yours...

Macbeau sends...