NoAim 0 Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 I ended up trying out a Belarus BP-02 AK rail to Weaver mount on my Saiga-12. On top I placed an EOTech. I also had a cheek piece to avoid a "chin weld". Problem was, when I was shooting slugs, even low-recoil ones, the groups were all over the place...something like 12" at random (50 yards) Took off the rail, used the irons, and proceeded to get a 4-shot 3" group. This was my second outing trying the mount. I double checked and made sure all screws were tightened down (still are) and that it took two hands to close the clasp. Speaking with a friend, he remembers some company saying not to use these mounts on the .308 power and higher due to zeroing problem. Anyone use one of these successfully? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
acercanto 6 Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Maybe that's my problem..... I have the Belarus hi mount, and the groupings with my S-38 are very large, like 10"-off the paper at 100 yds. And I can't use the irons worth spitting at. I did have to crank the screws holding the top rail on down after the first range trip, but they haven't loosened back up... Acer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GTwannabe 1 Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Yep, here is my setup: I did have to loc-tite the rail screws, as the factory epoxy crap was poorly applied. The gun will cloverleaf Wolf slugs at 50 yards, and is quite accurate at 100. Is your mount pinned? The ones without pins are Q/C rejects and can have problems holding zero. You might also want to test your EOtech on another weapon to see if it holds zero. EOtech has been having a lot of quality control problems lately. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavePAL84 1 Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 (edited) I use that exact setup (BP-02 /w EOtech) Works for me, so I don't know. Edited June 24, 2008 by DavePAL84 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
whatmanual 44 Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Hehehe... a punisher graphic on the AGP mag. I like it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HarvKY 72 Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 It might be helpful to read through the optics section on the Tantal site. Here's the specific optics page: http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/bstmounts.html At the bottom it states: "The first thing that must be done after receiving a new optic for any rifle, is the attachment clamp adjustment to ensure a rock tight fit to any side plate design. In many cases, there are variations in rails, and these must be taken into consideration by the optic mounting clamp design. Please study this link and make adjustments as necessary until you have a satisfactory fit to your rifle. In all cases, our Russian scopes and sights are fully adjustable to be perfectly fitted to any European side rails based on the Soviet designs. " Here is the page that describes how to adjust the mount: http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/pso/clamp_adjustments.htm As mentioned above, there are BP-02 mounts that are cheap/or reject versions - not pinned correctly or something. Good luck Cheers, HarvKY Quote Link to post Share on other sites
methical160 0 Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 I attached a rail to the fore end of my S12 to allow mounting the BP-02 up front. It holds its zero just fine, but is a little tricky getting on and off, since the rail is mounted backwards, and the mount has to be adjusted down very snugly to stay in place under recoil. I've shot 1" groups at 30 yards with the set up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) If your all over the place something is loose, and it sounds like it's not the mount and rail connection. I don't have any idea but using a PK-01 on the supplied mount mine would clover leaf almost at 50 yards. Sounds like maybe your mount is too tight, Tantel has directions for adjusting it to proper tension. http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/pso/clamp_adjustments.htm if you have those too tight they will crack. Edited June 25, 2008 by topmaul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jettster 0 Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Hehehe... a punisher graphic on the AGP mag. I like it Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. They'll look fucking great once I get my conversion done and cut my barrel down! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RDSWriter 5 Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 I haven't had any issues with mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SinistralRifleman 0 Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 The issue I had with one of these was the ejecting shells would constantly catch on it and cause failures to eject. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoAim 0 Posted June 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 (edited) Thanks for the help. This one appears to be a pinned design. So far, yes, it does appear to be tight, no screws coming loose. I'll redo the screws and swap out the EOTech for a known good one to see if there's a change. Edited June 27, 2008 by NoAim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavePAL84 1 Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 The issue I had with one of these was the ejecting shells would constantly catch on it and cause failures to eject. Holy shit, you may have just fixed my FTE problem--I had no idea that could be the problem. I just checked my mount and it's dinged all to hell I have a 3-gun on Sunday. Shit. I need to change my setup tonight and re-zero. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoAim 0 Posted June 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 (edited) The issue I had with one of these was the ejecting shells would constantly catch on it and cause failures to eject. Holy shit, you may have just fixed my FTE problem--I had no idea that could be the problem. I just checked my mount and it's dinged all to hell I have a 3-gun on Sunday. Shit. I need to change my setup tonight and re-zero. Hmmm...You know....I was having issues with some of the slugs not ejecting. Then when I pulled the mount off, no more problems. I figured it was me "limping" it from the higher cheek weld from the bench. I'll have to double check that. And actually....it seemed to only be that way with the slugs...which has a higher bolt speed, higher ejection...causing a rim-in-bolt stovepipe. I think for my 3-gun I'm going irons. Supposedly LaRue is coming out with an AK/Aimpoint mount, but he's been saying that for almost a year now. Is there any way I can tell if I have the cheap/reject mount, aside from the presence of the pins? Sinistral, do you still use the Kobra sight on your rig? Edited June 27, 2008 by NoAim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SinistralRifleman 0 Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 I use the Aimpoint T-1 Micro on Ultimak Rail. It meets my requirements for cheek weld, removal not required for cleaning, and durability. The problem with all the various optics mounts for the side rail on the Saiga is they either sit high enough to be able to disassemble it, and you have crappy cheek weld, or they are too low to be able to disassemble it and you have good cheek weld. None of the ones I tried retained zero after removal. Zero shifted with the Kobra as much as 3-4" at 25 yards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoAim 0 Posted June 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Thanks for the experienced info Sinistral. FYI, I did check my EOTech and rail. It has dings all over it right by where the shells are ejecting. Maybe Ultimak/forward rail is the way to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavePAL84 1 Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 So, just got back from the match. I didn't use the BP-02 mount. Guess what? Not one fucking problem! She chugged along all day long and worked great! You're lifesaver SR Yeah, I guess the BP-02 mount is going back on a regular Kalishnikov. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoAim 0 Posted June 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 So, just got back from the match. I didn't use the BP-02 mount. Guess what? Not one fucking problem! She chugged along all day long and worked great! You're lifesaver SR Yeah, I guess the BP-02 mount is going back on a regular Kalishnikov. Good to hear. Our next multigun is the weekend after July 4th. I need to drift the rear sight slightly, but otherwise...irons baby. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IPSC_GUY 3 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 So, just got back from the match. I didn't use the BP-02 mount. Guess what? Not one fucking problem! She chugged along all day long and worked great! You're lifesaver SR Yeah, I guess the BP-02 mount is going back on a regular Kalishnikov. Good to hear. Our next multigun is the weekend after July 4th. I need to drift the rear sight slightly, but otherwise...irons baby. Does anyone have any pictures of where on the mount the shells are hitting? IPSC_GUY SIERRA II ALPHA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SinistralRifleman 0 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 If you took the first inch off from the front, it would probably work... but, then you'd still have the problem of needing to take it off to clean the gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavePAL84 1 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Does anyone have any pictures of where on the mount the shells are hitting? I'll take some this afternoon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavePAL84 1 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 (edited) Most of the damage is on the EOtech. However, even when I removed the EOtech but kept the mount in place I experienced the same problem, although about half as much (still unacceptable) Also, the mount is now loose (I guess a hundred shells or so hitting it at high speed with do that) and I have to tighten and re-stake the rail itself. Edited July 1, 2008 by DavePAL84 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavePAL84 1 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 If you took the first inch off from the front, it would probably work... but, then you'd still have the problem of needing to take it off to clean the gun. I never had a problem maintaining zero when taking the mount on and off. However, judging from how far back the dings are on the mount, I think one would still experience problems even if the rail was taken off down to the mount itself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoAim 0 Posted July 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 ...... Most of the damage is on the EOtech. However, even when I removed the EOtech but kept the mount in place I experienced the same problem, although about half as much (still unacceptable) Also, the mount is now loose (I guess a hundred shells or so hitting it at high speed with do that) and I have to tighten and re-stake the rail itself. I don't have the pictures, but mine looked EXACTLY the same. Same hits in the same places. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Wow, I was actually considering buying one of these but now I'm not sure. So the general consensus seems to be that the BP-02 mount causes ejection failures in the S-12? Thats disappointing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavePAL84 1 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Wow, I was actually considering buying one of these but now I'm not sure. So the general consensus seems to be that the BP-02 mount causes ejection failures in the S-12? Thats disappointing. I highly recommend the BP-02 mount--on anything but a S12. Mine is going back on my .223 Saiga now Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IPSC_GUY 3 Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Wow, I was actually considering buying one of these but now I'm not sure. So the general consensus seems to be that the BP-02 mount causes ejection failures in the S-12? Thats disappointing. I highly recommend the BP-02 mount--on anything but a S12. Mine is going back on my .223 Saiga now THANK YOU VERY MUCH for posting the pics I appreciate that. Your EO tech is getting beat up there. I had planned to mod the BP-02 by cutting the rail down and mounting it INSIDE the two little raised areas, to get the optic that much lower. WELLLPP back to the drawing board. IPSC_GUY SIERRA II ALPHA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ilsrwy27 0 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 (edited) Hmmmm.... Ejection problem was my first thought when I saw these mounts with Eotechs on them, but I did not find anything on it before this thread. Wonder if it is something that only affects some guns or most Saiga 12s... There are so many others with this setup out there, it would be nice to hear from them too. Edited July 10, 2008 by ilsrwy27 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavePAL84 1 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Hmmmm.... Ejection problem was my first thought when I saw these mounts with Eotechs on them, but I did not find anything on it before this thread.Wonder if it is something that only affects some guns or most Saiga 12s... There are so many others with this setup out there, it would be nice to hear from them too. It seems to be just the Saiga-12's. I've used Belarus mounts on several AK's and never had a problem at all. Of course, a regular AK spits brass more laterally than a S12 spits shells. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ilsrwy27 0 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 (edited) I meant is it a problem for most Saiga 12s or just for a few of them -they're all ejecting shells but ejectors can work differently from one gun to the other. I have no doubt the Belarus setup works perfectly fine on AKs for the very reasons you mentioned -brass and a more horizontal path. From the pics I have seen posted in various threads it seems like quite a few Saiga 12 owners use Eotechs. It would be nice to hear from them, know what mount they use and if they have encountered any of the issues you and others encountered. Edited July 11, 2008 by ilsrwy27 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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