G3 Mag Adaptor Finished - Survey

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Ok guys, I have my mag adaptor prototyped. I have it and a modified G3 mag in my Saiga 308.

 

 

Now that the ban is sunsetted and we're not restricted to existing pre-ban mags only, there are options besides this, so I want to to another survey of interest.

 

Here's the scoupe:

This is not a plug-in adaptor. This requires a serious, irreversible conversion of your rifle. It's a step or two up in difficulty from a conversion of a Saiga 223 to hi-cap. Consider this a custom part for YOUR project that ultimately is a product of YOUR work and skill, using my adaptor as one component. You may wish to modify it to suit your needs. I recommend this only to those who have already done Saiga conversions to P-grip.

 

Bottom line is that you're responsible for the end result. I can show you what I've done and what advantages and limitations there are, but I cannot be responsible for what will ultimately be your project and your bragging rights. I had a bigger project in mind, as you can see with the homemade stock, and I hope you can have just as unique an idea for which my adaptor would only be a small part.

 

Unlike other systems, this conversion DOES NOT involve modification to the trunion, a major concern of many. It does, however, require the removal of the post accross the receiver. If you are comfortable doing this, as I am, then this is for you. If not, then this system will not work, period. This is the tradeoff - save the trunion, lose the post. I have seen no ill effects from this myself.

 

These will be machined by hand one at a time. This is completely a custom job. So production will be very low. What I can do is if anyone has any quirky preferences I can at least try to serve them. Also note that subsequent models will be flush with the ridges on the G3 mag, not spaced out like this one is.

 

I will also be finishing engineering school next semester, so my time is now or extremely limited afterwards.

 

I cannot promise a specific quantity to be available. I cannot promise when they will be available. I expect to make one at a time on an individual basis, with people served in turn. What I CAN and WILL promise is that I will not take anybody's money until I have a mag adaptor with their name on it (I mean figuratively, sorry I'm not monogramming them). I will offer a ten day inspection and return period if unmodified. I obviously cannot be responsible for what you do to your Saiga though, as this process is irreversible (though I'm sure some of us could figure out a way to go back to the original mag if we really wanted to.)

 

And now, what you've all been waiting for - the price: $80 for the complete, assembled adaptor and ONE modified G3 mag to use as a template for other converted mags. Since this system was developed before the ban died, they will still work in a G3.

 

So, with all that said, I would like to know who is interested in a magazine adaptor for your project. Please post questions and interest on this thread so that it's clear who's in line and how long or short the line is. I know a couple people were interested in being guinea pigs, well here's your chance.

Edited January 4, 2005 by BattleRifleG3

[RooK 0]

I'll do the question bit first, got a lot of questions after seeing that pic...

 

How does it actually attach to the rifle? Did you remove the defaul mag release to accomplish this, or is it just hidden?

 

Is removeing the center support the only modification needed? Why is the center post remove specifically? If it conflicts with the mag (as I suspect), could the mag be trimmed to avoid it's removal?

 

How does the mag release work?

 

Got a pic of one of your altered mags compared to non-altered ones, showing the work that needs to be done?

[screaming eagle 0]

Definite interest in at least one possibly2-4. Rook has already asked my ????

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Ok, to those questions:

 

How it attaches - lock and rock it like an AK mag. But it will be a tight fit by design. There's a big knob/tab at the front that locks into the trunion like the original tab, and doubles as a feedramp. It fastens down at the back using one machine screw through a hole that's already on the rifle, behind the original mag catch.

 

Mods required to rifle - Must remove center post and use dremel or milling machine to open up the receiver bottom to permit use of a wider mag. You would do this by placing the adaptor on as you would eventually attach it and marking the receiver on the inside of the mag well. Trim with Dremel until it's flush with the mag well (probably taking the mag well off first). This requires that the mags clear, but it's not a precision job. You will also have to reach into the receiver and grind down the magazine guide rails until they're flush with their original plate.

 

Original mag release - Removed as first mod to rifle.

 

New mag release - A crude right side push button release similar in technology to the AR-15. The push button is a modified carriage bolt. Main problem so far is finding a way to recess it so that it won't be bumped accidentally. That could be one of the simplest user mods, figuring out a better push button system. If people REALLY want it, I could see about doing a left side lever type push button or paddle type release.

 

Removing the center post - This is absolutely necessary. The only way I could avoid touching the trunion was to move the mag well backwards. The center post would interfere not only with the mags but the ammo too. The mag is immediately in front of the hammer. I would not recommend letting the hammer fall unassisted without the bolt carrier in place. Letting it down by hand, it rests on the rails when there's no mag inside.

 

I regrettably have no pic of the modified mag, but this is the modification: The mag must be thinned at the front to clear the inner lower trunion rivets. This is done by removing a roughly square section of the outside sheet of the mag on either side. The inner sheet that comprises the mag body need not be compromised.

 

Here's the main limitation: While the bolt WILL cycle all the way back behind the mag well, the weaker spring of at least this G3 mag does not always seem to raise the rounds in time. Alternately, the problem may be that the rounds tend to point too far upwards and thus their rear ends are too low for the bolt to catch.

 

That's the speal with all the drawbacks plain and simple. I can't flex on the price unless people want them less finished, to fine tune the certain specs yourselves. Only finish I can really offer is plain bare aluminum "in the white", but if people really really want I'll see about painting them. But so could you.

 

Hope all this helps. Please post if still interested.

[smithy5160 0]

i read that your doing engineering, nice, where you goin?

[BattleRifleG3 16]

I don't post my real name or exact location on an open forum. I only discuss that on PM or E-mail, and only do so when it seems prudent, ie for transactions and such.

 

I am present and have a consistent identity on several major forums, such as Gunandgame.com, gunsnet (though I'm minimizing my participation there due to administrative antagonism), gunco.net, and akfiles.com.

 

I graduate this year, so I'll post on stuff that's after the fact. All I'll say about my school is that it's one of the last bastions of civilized conservatism.

[PM2790 0]

So how many rounds thru the tester/sample rifle?

I would foresee this as useful for my 16" carbine. My 22" is more of a designated marksman piece and the standard 8/10 rd mags are not a hindrance.

 

The $80 price seems reasonable, IF there is a reasonable assurance of reliability. I think you have been fairly diligent in updating the boardmembers of your progress with this project. You might want to consider a disinterested tester that would take a Saiga .308 and your kit and go thru the conversion and give a write up on the experience. Something for you to consider. I'm in for one if it works.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

"Call it whatever you like, the question is does it work? Does it really mighty my... ...because I've tried that sort of thing before, spent a pretty penny and I don't mind telling you... if this one works I'll order a dozen!"

 

Far as reliability goes, it's as I've explained with the drawbacks. And the biggest constraint on any promises of reliability is the fact that you're converting your own rifle, which I encourage but cannot take responsibility for.

 

Far as round count goes, the speed of feeding issue has kept that limited. I'm still working on that.

 

Since this makes use of your work, assuming you are not only skilled with tools but intelligent as well, I'm hoping that project builders can take these problems on themselves.

 

This is definitely not for everyone. I'm sure that given time I could produce something a bit better. But we all want to make things our own, so I'm ofering this model for those who want to take it the rest of the way. I have offered in a couple cases to make unfinished adaptors for $10 to $20 less that have the complete mag well and locking system but can be fitted by the buyer to their own rifle. Some suggest that modded G3 or CETME mags would work in the S-12. If this adaptor can help there, great. I don't have an S-12 myself.

 

Hi-cap AKs in 308 generally start at $1000 for pre-bans that use expensive pre-ban mags. The VEPR 308 has been modded to hi-cap with some success.

Alternately, there are Century G3s and FALs and builds thereof that will probably cost the same in the end as a Saiga 308. I have a G3 myself and would really like a FAL too. If after some consideration you find those to be better for you, you'll get no arguement from me.

 

My adaptors are aimed to help YOU make YOUR projects happen. This is to provide the missing link for your ideas to take form. If you have other ideas, more power to you. I certainly have a variety of ideas myself.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

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[BattleRifleG3 16]

BTT by request