SaigaNoobie 66 Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 It's been a while since I looked at my .308's bolt. If I recall correctly, there are 2 large lugs and a third smaller lug which also rides over the rounds in the mag (you know the one). do I REALLY need that little one? As far as I can tell, it doesn't look too important. I want to grind that sucker off (Mostly). Any reason not to? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Your health? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Your health? LOL that little one is saving me? The other two big ones aren't enough? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Your health? LOL that little one is saving me? The other two big ones aren't enough? How much money do you think Izhmash would save if they didn't have to include the 'little one'? Wonder why it's there, if it's 'not important'. . . . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 (edited) Edited September 12, 2008 by madmilo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 LOL milo.... I'm serious. Heck, my little one doesn't even touch the barrel trunnion when the bolt's closed. It's a free-floating lug.... My only gripe is that it hits the rounds and slows the bolt's rearward travel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 It also cocks the hammer. Leave it alone. Make NO madification to a reciever or bolt untill you know EXACTLY what each part does for a living. Some of these parts have functions that are not redibly evident. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GPalmer 1 Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 I'm serious. Heck, my little one doesn't even touch the barrel trunnion when the bolt's closed. Hey that's her problem, why are you telling us... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunnysmith 4 Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 If you don't mind, read this one all the way through. Then decide if minor changes are worth it. Small things accomplish big tasks sometimes. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=21769 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted September 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 It also cocks the hammer. Leave it alone. Make NO madification to a reciever or bolt untill you know EXACTLY what each part does for a living. Some of these parts have functions that are not redibly evident. GOB, The bolt carrier cocks the hammer. that little 3rd lug does nothing but scrape the rounds and "lock" as a lug. Although I have found wierd marks on my hammer that i've attributed to the 3rd lug. If Mausers etc. are just fine with 2 Lugs, AK's are fine with 2 lugs, why can't the .308 be fine with 2 lugs? I want to be safe, but I just don't see the necessity of a Lug that doesn't even contact. But if you guys are dead set on me keeping it, I will... for now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 But if you guys are dead set on me keeping it, I will... for now. We don't want you in the 'dead set' at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted September 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 But if you guys are dead set on me keeping it, I will... for now. We don't want you in the 'dead set' at all. LOL nalioth! Kabooms are bad, Mmkay class? maybe I can attach a ramp to the bolt that will allow the rounds to more easily clear the lug without removing the lug. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 (edited) Edited September 12, 2008 by madmilo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevymann 13 Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 If you do decide to modify anything you aren't 100% sure about. I would at least hug a tree the first few magazines.. Once these things heat up, who know what tolerances may be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
santanatwo 1 Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 (edited) WTF, are you seriouse? I have never seen another gun board where posters come up with so many retarded, unsafe ideas. referenced for further asshattery http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...=30#entry263410 locking lugs are good, drugs are bad, Mkay? But don't take the word of gunsmiths with decades of experience under their belt, you obviously stayed at a Motel 6 last night. Edited September 13, 2008 by santanatwo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
santanatwo 1 Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 (edited) It also cocks the hammer. Leave it alone. Make NO madification to a reciever or bolt untill you know EXACTLY what each part does for a living. Some of these parts have functions that are not redibly evident. GOB, The bolt carrier cocks the hammer. that little 3rd lug does nothing but scrape the rounds and "lock" as a lug. Although I have found wierd marks on my hammer that i've attributed to the 3rd lug. If Mausers etc. are just fine with 2 Lugs, AK's are fine with 2 lugs, why can't the .308 be fine with 2 lugs? I want to be safe, but I just don't see the necessity of a Lug that doesn't even contact. But if you guys are dead set on me keeping it, I will... for now. it's not just the number of lugs, but also the size of the lug and the strength of each lug that matter also. Thank you for posting this before you went and did something your parents will regret... (because you won't be around to regret it, you'll be dead) We are TRYING to educate you, please listen carefully. I'm going to go home now and look at my saiga 308 bolt and try to figure out exactly what you are up to. I will post again as soon as I get home. Edited September 13, 2008 by santanatwo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Wow SN....you've really outdone yourself on this one...lol. You are one strange individual bro. Why are you constantly trying to redesign Izhmash's proven systems? Hey I know some hillbillys in Indiana that would probably love to have some of this kind of input! You should try and sell them your idea Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Hell, you don't even need the Saiga.... just a nail, hammer and a .308 round! Have Fun!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Falls into the "Hey y'all watch this!" category, followed by "Who'd a thunk it?" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
santanatwo 1 Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 (edited) I edited out the cuss words from my post above, I should have left them it. So, I just got home and verified what the original poster is talking about. EPIC FAIL Do you WANT to die? If so, please continue. If you value your life... PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS that "third lug" is part of what holds your rifle together when 50,000 PSI slams into the bolt face. It may take 5 rounds or 500 rounds, but one day the bolt will shear off and send the bolt carrier flying through your head!!!! YOU will fucking DIE!!!!! Mods, please forgive the cuss word, but the circumstances warrent something to make the OP wake up... before he kills himself, or causes someone else to follow his lead and they get killed too, or worse yet, an unsuspecting third party buys said gun, and ends up dead!!! I posted a link from the "grind down your 223 bolt face thread... (change your headspace, for the lose!) There is a reason the ruskies put three lugs on there! Because two lugs are needed for a low pressure round like the 7.62 x 39. 308 is much higher pressure, and the AK lugs are not that thick and strong compared to the other rifle you mentioned as "only needing two lugs!" You WERE ignorant... ignorance can be fixed through education. Luckily you were smart enough to post a thread about it, to ask the profeshunals.... thank you. However, people who fail to learn are often given awards by someone called Darwin! Edited September 13, 2008 by santanatwo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
santanatwo 1 Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 (edited) LOL milo.... I'm serious. Heck, my little one doesn't even touch the barrel trunnion when the bolt's closed. It's a free-floating lug.... My only gripe is that it hits the rounds and slows the bolt's rearward travel. remove the bolt from the bolt carrier (unload your gun first) insert bolt into trunion and rotate, look at it fromt he underside, the 3rd lug DOES make contact. Edited September 13, 2008 by santanatwo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunnysmith 4 Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 To continue about small things: There was recently a Kaboom on a 7.62 X 39 Home built AK. In riveting the receiver, one of the ears on the front of the receiver was too long. rather than repair the problem the it was riveted to the front trunion. The receiver had a slight twist in it which appeared to be of no major consequence. That allowed the carrier to to not align correctly and was operating at an angle to the bore. The rifle was finished and headspaced without reguard to the twist.. In outward appearance all seemed well, except for the slight twist. In testing the firearm, at about 75 rounds, there was a major explosion. It blew the top cover off, jammed the carrier t the rear, ejected the magazine forcefully from the receiver while forcing the floorplate of the magazine off the bottom of the hag body. The shooter was not injured badly, shooting glasses took the major force of the gas, although the top cover did strike the the shooter in the forehead as it was ripped for the action. Bottom line investigation was there was only one lug engaging correctly on the trunion. This was due to the twist in the receiver caused by the builder not correctly fitting the trunion/receiver area. After a number of rounds were fired. the working lug gave way. The impact of the second lug under pressure, caused a crack and bending of the unengaged lug. The escaping gases caused the rest of the damage described. In life some people are just lucky, in this case luck won the day. Although the experience was lasting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Nasty, guy is lucky the second lug didnt also break and sent the carrier and all in through his skull. i dont think the glasses would have helped him there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
santanatwo 1 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 ok, class, is EVERYBODY paying attention? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunnysmith 4 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 (edited) Look at the explosion on this video and guess what happened. Hint: it was not an out of battery firing and was ammo related. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRQGvisRxU ANSWER: The Iraqis were receiving ammo from a kurdish ammo plant. The Kurds were sabotaging rounds by filling them with plastique. The video certainly shows the strength of the AK. It also illustrates what can happen if critical dimensions or changes to critical components are inserted into the equation. Edited September 14, 2008 by gunnysmith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 It also cocks the hammer. Leave it alone. Make NO madification to a reciever or bolt untill you know EXACTLY what each part does for a living. Some of these parts have functions that are not redibly evident. Yes, it also keeps you from having to take the time to pull the bolt out of your forehead between rounds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Azrial gets it. SN is in the middle of an extended brain fart! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
7.62x39 0 Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Saiganoobie quote "If Mausers etc. are just fine with 2 Lugs, AK's are fine with 2 lugs, why can't the .308 be fine with 2 lugs?" Sorry dude, Mausers have 3 locking lugs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted September 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 The third isn't in pre K98 mausers. And it's in the rear as a safety Lug if the front two fail. I don't get why you all are so attacking, I asked first because there is ALOT of metal on these saigas that are "extra". One can look at the shotgun tweaks about filing and grinding off parts of the bolt to smooth it out. I asked FIRST so I could get answers not attacks and insults. My .308 still has 3 lugs. Now I'ma have to get me a .308, file off all the lugs and test shoot it to see if the lugs really do anything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunnysmith 4 Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 The third isn't in pre K98 mausers. And it's in the rear as a safety Lug if the front two fail. I don't get why you all are so attacking, I asked first because there is ALOT of metal on these saigas that are "extra". One can look at the shotgun tweaks about filing and grinding off parts of the bolt to smooth it out. I asked FIRST so I could get answers not attacks and insults. My .308 still has 3 lugs. Now I'ma have to get me a .308, file off all the lugs and test shoot it to see if the lugs really do anything. My posts were at best informative but not all inclusive. There were no attempts to attack. The short video I posted shows the strength of the AK system. That being said, the system requires all component parts work in unison. The Russians are a frugal people, If the third lug was not needed, it would not be there. Let's just say the third lug on the .308 is a safety lug and call it good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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