Installing a Robinson VEPR synthetic buttstock on a Saiga Ver-21

[Chaps 0]

Back in the early part of this year I was hot to get a new Saiga 308 but the only thing I could find in inventory anywhere was a Ver-21 like the one pictured below. At that point not knowing much about conversions or aftermarket upgrades to Saiga rifles in general I figured OK, I'm not crazy about the furniture but I'll start with this and even though it was kind of pricey it was still a lot less than other 308 platforms and, after all, it was AK.

 

 

So I buy it from Gilberts and after it arrives I realize that it won't need a trigger conversion (which would save a lot of time & money) but the ergos of the stock, particularly the thumbhole, were terrible for me and to make matters more complicated there were really no aftermarket buttstocks made for this gun due to it's unique angle cut receiver.

 

Finally after posting up my problem here at Saiga-12 I got a few suggestions but the solutions all looked like they would require some work. The most realistic approach, I decided, was to try fitting a synthetic stock made by Robinson for their VEPR rifles. One of the guys here said he had made one work but it took some fitting. So I took the plunge and ordered one in. It's almost a drop-in but there are about six steps one needs to go through to make it right.

 

The Robinson part is a one piece molded buttstock & pistol grip. As you can see, when you slide it into the Ver-21 receiver it won't go in all the way. Several items on the Robinson stock need to be trimmed in order to make it fit correctly.

 

 

One of the first things that jumped out at me is the tang on the Saiga is about an 3/16th of an inch longer than a VEPR tang so that meant the tang slot on the new buttstock needed to be lengthened.

 

 

The simplest way to do this and have it turn out clean I concluded was to use a nice sharp 9/16" wood spade bit since the slot was 9/16" wide. I clamped the buttstock in a woodworkers clamp and secured it to the drill press table after carefully lining the bit up to get the cut I wanted. The pilot point of the spade bit also created a starter hole that I opened up later with an 11/64" straight drill bit for the original tang screw.

 

 

Next: Notching the top corner of the stock

Edited October 4, 2008 by Chaps

[bayonet lug 1]

Where did you get the vepr stock?

[red_cedar 28]

Robinson is out of the 308 vepr stocks. I inquired a couple of days ago

[Chaps 0]

The next major point of interference keeping the Robinson piece from properly sliding into the receiver was a different pattern at the top of the angle cut between the Saiga Ver-21 and a VEPR. As you can see in the first photo, the Saiga angle is longer and almost comes to a point.

 

 

The VEPR stock needs to be notched to remedy this. I marked my cut with blue masking tape, clamped the stock in my trusty woodclamp and moved the project to my radial arm saw.

 

 

Using a small diameter fine toothed blade and having set the blade high enough to limit its cut depth I trimmed out the required material. Guard removed for photo.

 

 

After the notch was cut there was left remaining a small triangle of material on each side of the stock that had to be removed in order for the angle of the receiver to match up with the stock

 

 

A couple of surgical strikes with a sharp chisel removes these two protruding pieces of plastic

 

 

Next: Trimming the step

[gtnichols 51]

Very nice, I see where you are going!

Nice shop tools too!

:devil: :devil:

once again, why didn't you like the wood stock it came with?

[Reverendfranz 160]

Very nice writeup, and good info

 

once again, why didn't you like the wood stock it came with?

 

Id guess its not black enough to really piss off McCarthy. Blacker the better.

[Chaps 0]

Using this picture again, notice the thick steel crossbar inside the receiver. When the Robinson stock is slid into the receiver the top stairstep in the molded plastic hits that crossbar.

 

 

So its back to the radial arm saw to shorten up that top stairstep

 

 

Getting closer. There are a few small areas of interference but this is the first time the stock has dropped in.

 

 

The corners of the tang slot need to be radiused to fit the tang. I removed the bulk of the material with a razor knife then smoothed out the shape with a file.

 

 

Oh yeah . . . coming home to mama

 

 

Drilling the pilot hole for the tang screw. Not shown but needing a hole is the inner top trunion screw which I did a bit later.

 

 

The slot for the pistol grip screw needed to be elongated, the VEPR's nut apparently sits further forward in the receiver and the bolt wouldn't come through at the right angle. I did this with a Dremel ball cutter.

 

 

The stock takes a shorter pistol grip screw. This is an M6 x 1.0, about 1.25" long hex head I picked up at the hardware store. It has a built-in flange that acts like a flat washer. It fit up in the grip access hole perfectly. I cut a notch in the top of the screw so I could use a regular screwdriver to remove the stock

 

Edited October 4, 2008 by Chaps

[Chaps 0]

OK, stock finally fit up with a few other small areas trimmed to get a final tight fit. Man this thing is solid, guess cause its one piece like the wood stock it replaced

 

 

Put everything back together. I'm swapping out the handguard soon as well as adding a few more goodies. A recoil but pad is next.

 

 

Again, the reason I did this was I couldn't get used to shooting with the original stock. I have really small hands and I could barely reach the trigger. That and I thought the gun looked frumpy. I know why they try and make them look like hunting rifles but its an AK for Christ's sakes. I've got the parts to return it to stock form if needed.

 

 

Thanks for the kind comments that got posted while I was doing this. I'm surprised to hear Robinson is out of these buttstocks. I just got this one a few days ago. Are you sure you ordered the right piece? Its a 1502-M, $90 w/frt

Edited October 4, 2008 by Chaps

[red_cedar 28]

I asked for a 308 polymer butt stock with pistol grip and I was told by email that they are out of the 308... I just sent an email indicating the # you mentioned

[ABNAK 1]

Chaps,

 

I see you took the plunge! Hell, you fit it better than I did! Those VEPR stocks are the perfect angle though, eh? And yeah, I didn't like the thumby either (I'm a southpaw).

 

I went to Knob Creek today and bought a standard black stocked sporter version which I was looking for when I got the Version 21. Now that I have the traditional one I was originally looking for I might consider letting the VEPR stocked one go if anyone is interested. I still have the original wooden thumbhole stock and handguard it came with.

[U.S. Pratorean 1,234]

That is very good work. You could also purchase the ACE receiver block for Veprs and put on any type folder or rigid stock. That is what I did on my Veprs, they fit perfectly. I did not really care for the Robinson pistol grip/stock they came with. You do have to remove the tang however.

[Chaps 0]

Chaps,

 

I see you took the plunge! Hell, you fit it better than I did! Those VEPR stocks are the perfect angle though, eh? And yeah, I didn't like the thumby either (I'm a southpaw).

 

I went to Knob Creek today and bought a standard black stocked sporter version which I was looking for when I got the Version 21. Now that I have the traditional one I was originally looking for I might consider letting the VEPR stocked one go if anyone is interested. I still have the original wooden thumbhole stock and handguard it came with.

 

That is very good work. You could also purchase the ACE receiver block for Veprs and put on any type folder or rigid stock. That is what I did on my Veprs, they fit perfectly. I did not really care for the Robinson pistol grip/stock they came with. You do have to remove the tang however.

 

Thanks Abnack & U. S Praetorian.

 

The sporter you just bought needs the FCG conversion, at least you didn't have to mess with that on the Ver-21. Yeah, the angle is perfect on the VEPR stock.

 

The ACE block has the same fit issues on the angle cut Saiga receiver that the Robarms stock has. Since that block is made out of aluminum it would have been quite a bit more work fitting it than the plastic buttstock I used but I considered it for sure. Overall I really like the handling of the rifle with the Robarms stock, its a totally different weapon now and I like the look too.

[Bayoupiper 738]

Excellent job!

[Surly 11]

One of my VEPR .308's came with a modded Choate butthole/drag-type stock. I swapped it out for one of the Robarm stocks that was minus the PG and added a Tapco SAW grip. My point being, the Choate and ATI stocks could be modded to fit the Saiga as well.

[Chaps 0]

One of my VEPR .308's came with a modded Choate butthole/drag-type stock. I swapped it out for one of the Robarm stocks that was minus the PG and added a Tapco SAW grip. My point being, the Choate and ATI stocks could be modded to fit the Saiga as well.

 

I looked at both of those too. I think the Choate is doable though when I contacted them they were adamant that it could not be made to fit a Saiga so I kept looking. I couldn't find an ATI that even came close to fitting unless they have something that is not on their website. Its the angle cut part of it that they don't seem to make.

[Surly 11]

One of my VEPR .308's came with a modded Choate butthole/drag-type stock. I swapped it out for one of the Robarm stocks that was minus the PG and added a Tapco SAW grip. My point being, the Choate and ATI stocks could be modded to fit the Saiga as well.

 

I looked at both of those too. I think the Choate is doable though when I contacted them they were adamant that it could not be made to fit a Saiga so I kept looking. I couldn't find an ATI that even came close to fitting unless they have something that is not on their website. Its the angle cut part of it that they don't seem to make.

 

The Choate covers the receiver where the angle cut is. I haven't had the opportunity to see a standard AK with an ATI stock and I was speculating on it being able to be modified. I have seen alot worse...standard Norinco stocks on slant cut receivers. I'm certain the ATI would probably fit that category. I can attest to the Choate's being doable.