Stacked .410 slugs?

[stiletto raggio 20]

The .410 slug, for many reasons, seems like a waste of time in its current configuration. However, the Brenneke-type slug looks like it has potential (http://www.buckandslug.co.uk/) but at 80 grains it is still extremely light.

 

00 buck weighs about 54 grains. Sellier and Bellot loads five pellets in their 3" .410 load. Winchester loads five pellets of 000 buck in their 3" buck load. Five 00 pellots comes out to 270 grains of projectile weight. Three of the Brenneke-type slugs comes out to 240 grains. With felt wads between each, you should be able to stack three in a 3" .410 shell. Because they are rifled and have a hollow base, all three should stabilize well and fly relatively straight. Has anyone seen a load like this, or, better yet, attempted to make one? I don't have any means to load or crimp .410 ammo, but I think this would be a pretty impressive load from a .410 Saiga.

Edited April 13, 2009 by stiletto raggio

[russianblood 0]

The hard part is finding .410 slugs for loading. Interesting theory. If someone wants to send me some slugs, I'll load them and post a range report of them shot from my S-410.

[stiletto raggio 20]

http://www.geocities.com/doug410slug/bpic2.html

 

I found this site after doing some more digging. The flathead 125 and 90 grain look very promising. A full wadcutter will definitely create a better wound profile than a round ball, and the hollow base should stabilize them well at close range. I have emailed Doug to see if he i still casting these, because the price is far more palatable than those Brennekes.

 

Also, I just did the math and even a standard 9/16 ouce load comes out to about 246 grains of projectile. Figure the wad weighs something, and we should be clear to load two 125 grain flatheads and, perhaps, three 90 grainers. It depends on how long they are, really. But if a .410 can handle a 5 pellet 00 load, these should be quite safe. Cost to load 2x125 grainers in new .410 shells should come to about 90 cents a round, which is cheaper than the Winchester buckshot loads. Cost to load 2x90s and 1x125 will be around $110 per shot. Sounds like a call for experimentation to me.

Edited April 13, 2009 by stiletto raggio

[turbo1889 1]

I have shot twin slug loads out of a 410 -- they work pretty darn well. Wasn't quite doing them the way described but rather took two 148gr. 38-spl. wad cutter bullets and put them through a 0.348" sizer die and then loaded them both inside a standard 410 shot wad with 11/16oz. 3"-mag. load data in 2-1/2" shell lengths. Powder / Wad / Scoop of Shot Buffer / Sized down Wad-Cutter / Scoop of Shot Buffer / Sized down Wad-Cutter / Crimp -- That was the basic load recipe. Used one of the Lee dippers to measure the buffer with, can't remember which one but they worked out pretty darn good. Punch two round holes side by side about an inch apart almost all the time at the 25-yard mark and the 50-yard mark usually one or both key holed but still only about three inches apart.

 

Using full bore slugs as suggested would eliminate the key-hole problem but is also a lot more expensive -- 148gr. Lead 38-spl. wad cutters are cheap and plentiful, just need to be sized down slightly to fit inside the wad without being too tight but still tight enough to make them darn accurate. Accuracy could probably, also, be improved upon using full bore foster style slugs. Buffer between them is probably a better idea than card or felt wads for accuracy considerations, that hard card between the slugs is bound to smugger up the flight path of the trailing slug just a smidgen when it gets smacked to the side by the trailing slug after leaving the end of the barrel.

 

As far as an economical and powerful heavy slug load for the 410 for reloaders you need a single slug that weighs twice as much not two light slugs --- I'm working on it, been working on it for several years now. Here is the best prototype I've developed so far -- center one is the 1/2oz. heavy lifter champ that comes tearing out the barrel at over 1500-fps for a 3"-mag. load and holds it's own in ballistic terms neck and neck with a 44-mag out of a long barreled revolver. Far right was a super-heavy weight 11/16oz. version which proved to be unstable unfortunately and the left hand side is 1/4oz. Brenneke for comparison.

[russianblood 0]

Now you've got me thinking. I have 500 158gr LRN bullets for my .357 coming. I'll try loading them bare in the shell and just use the base of the wad for a gas seal. Hmmm. . .

[turbo1889 1]

Here is a graphical demonstration how to load a double slug load using two 148gr. 38-spl. DWCs sized down to 0.348" with a Lee push through sizer die or similar as I described in my previous post as well as the wadcutters in question:

Edited April 14, 2009 by turbo1889

[ampell 0]

Here is a graphical demonstration how to load a double slug load using two 148gr. 38-spl. DWCs sized down to 0.348" with a Lee push through sizer die or similar as I described in my previous post as well as the wadcutters in question:

 

I think it's awesome you guys are working to advance the ballistics for the .410! Keep up the good work.

[stiletto raggio 20]

I thought about loading wadcutters as well but I didn't know how they would fly. It seems that unless you use a hollow base wadcutter, the projectile would be very unstable and start tumbling pretty soon after exiting the bore.

 

Turbo, is there a specific reason why the bullets have to be turned down to .348? People regularly load larger round ball loads in a .410. Is that due to the specific thickness of your wads?

 

Also, my email to Doug was returned. I think he may be out of the business. I will try again, but wadcutters may be the route for us to take. Unless someone wants to oder a custom mould...

Edited April 14, 2009 by stiletto raggio

[russianblood 0]

I've been happy with my handloaded buckshot loads. I load 4 000 buck into 3" hulls. I shoot mainly Barnaul/Silverbear slugs when I shoot a single projectile with the occasional Brenneke when I want to get 'serious'. I'll see how my lead .357 158gr RN bullets work with the BP 3' hulls and various wads I load with.

[turbo1889 1]

. . . Turbo, is there a specific reason why the bullets have to be turned down to .348? People regularly load larger round ball loads in a .410. Is that due to the specific thickness of your wads? . . .

 

From experimentation I found that using the 38-spl DWC un-sized inside a wad resulted in high pressure loads if I tried to load more than one at a time. The 0.348" die just happened to be the next size smaller and when I ran them through that the resulting double slug load was still accurate and didn't have high-pressure problems. Tried sizing them all the way down to 0.338" and that resulted in a decrease in accuracy when fired from all but the tightest (full) choke guns. Thus 0.348" seems to be the magic number for this set-up. And yes they do tumble, but not near as quickly as one would think -- those big flat nosed flying trash can shaped bullets are pretty stable naturally. As I said 25 yards is almost always nice clean round holes and at 50 yards it's about 50/50 round holes and key-holes.

[stiletto raggio 20]

Anything new on this front?

[mcdandc 0]

how would 1/8" plugs (from sheet stock) act? seems like the tumble would be a good thing at close range.

[saigafan2008 0]

Sorry, I missed this thread back in April due to insane amounts of overtime. I'm just now catching up...

 

Turbo,

 

Thanks for the great explanation and pics. That really helps!

 

Did you cast your own wadcutters, or did you buy them? Also, do you lube just the grooves or do you lube the grooves and then lube the whole bullet?

 

Many thanks,

 

Carl

 

 

 

Here is a graphical demonstration how to load a double slug load using two 148gr. 38-spl. DWCs sized down to 0.348" with a Lee push through sizer die or similar as I described in my previous post as well as the wadcutters in question:

[ML Roak 0]

how would 1/8" plugs (from sheet stock) act? seems like the tumble would be a good thing at close range.

Do you mean in a stack, like the old west $1.20 dime load? The guy at Box of Truth did a test on the dimes theory and found that it made a really nasty flesh wound, and had little penetration, but a 1/8 might have enough mass to make it work, though I think 1/4 might work better. I think Turbo's 1/2 ouncer looks like winner.

[stiletto raggio 20]

Ditto that. Unfortunately, the guy/people that go by "Paraklese" on gunbroker seems to have beaten him to market. It's over a buck a shot, but at least it is out there.