[sjgusmc21]

Being my first post, sure I will sound very noobish, as I am! Not new to rifles, as I am a 21 year retired Marine Infantryman, just new to AK’s. I wanted something different other then a M16A2/M4, and didn’t want to spend the money on one of them (IMO way overpriced). Regardless, I have decided to go with the Saiga in 7.62, instead of buying a WASR. I have read, read, and read some more and am now somewhat 'cloudy' on pretty much all of the conversion. I will order the Saiga at the end of the month, but for now I ordered some parts because of the K-Var sale going on. Basically the OD Stock and pistol Grip, with a few minor misc screws, etc. I haven't made up my mind on the fore-end yet. But here are my questions:

1. Which 'EXACTLY' trigger guard replacement should I use? I have seen the type for saws, exact drop ins, etc. I am mostly confused on this part.
2. I will purchase and install the G2 double trigger group. Shouldn't be a problem.
3. I will replace the 'Sheppard hook'. Again, no problem.
4. I don't see the conversion being a problem. I am good with tools and pretty much have what I need. (Purchased a punch kit from HD yesterday).
5. I will be doing the magazine bullet guide conversion. I will have to wait and see what type I need after I receive my Saiga (flat or rounded).
6. Still debating on the extended magazine release (sorry if I didn’t get the name of it exactly correct).
7. If I order a regular hand guard (in the tradition shape, just not wood), do I only need the lower retaining plate, or an upper as well? Have located the lower one, but not the upper one.

I am not concerned about it looking original. There will be no wood on it, although I think in the future I might get a set ‘just because’. I plan on the furniture being Olive Drab, and I will Duracoat the body in Flat Dark Earth. I would like the option to mount a bayonet on it, but for now that is a future project, as I know it will involve removing and replacing the FSG.

Again, thank you all for your input, and I have thoroughly enjoyed ready all of your post. Just think I ‘over-read’ and now my brain has ‘AK-Lockup’ Semper Fi and Take care!

BTW, I will be in compliance with the appropriate parts. I know that is a very large legal issue.

This post has been edited by sjgusmc21: 14 September 2009 - 09:24 AM

[n102788]

welcome, you can reuse the trigger guard so you dont need to buy one. there will need to be modifacations to the reciever if you buy the double hook g2, the single hook g2 is a "drop in" instalation. lastley you will need a regular ak gas tube ramanian ones seem to be "drop in" and a modified regular ak retainer or if you got the doe a bolt on one from dinzagarms.com (get the bullet guide from dinzag). K-var is a good place for furniture. im pretty sure k-var is a conributer here as well as dinzag if not mods im sorry.

[sjgusmc21]

n102788, on 14 September 2009 - 10:02 AM, said:

welcome, you can reuse the trigger guard so you dont need to buy one. there will need to be modifacations to the reciever if you buy the double hook g2, the single hook g2 is a "drop in" instalation. lastley you will need a regular ak gas tube ramanian ones seem to be "drop in" and a modified regular ak retainer or if you got the doe a bolt on one from dinzagarms.com (get the bullet guide from dinzag). K-var is a good place for furniture. im pretty sure k-var is a conributer here as well as dinzag if not mods im sorry.

n102788: Thanks for the reply and help. I did not know I needed to replace the stock gas tube. First I read of that. This is the handguard I am debating on buying...

https://www.k-var.co...productid=17034

So I will need a new gas tube for this one? Will this one work, minus the wood?

https://www.k-var.co...productid=16770

If I have to convert the gas tube, I might just go with one of these...

http://dsgarms.com/i...---od-green.cfm

Somewhere, I saw one that I don't believe needed the retainer...can't remember right now.

Also, didn't know the g2 double hook needed modification. Guess I will go with the single hook.

Yes, I will be buying the bullet guide from Dinzag, no doubt.

[thehopping1]

And I would suggest a retaining plate instead of a shepherds crook. They are quicker and easier.

[vbrtrmn]

sjgusmc21, on 14 September 2009 - 09:45 AM, said:

Being my first post, sure I will sound very noobish, as I am! Not new to rifles, as I am a 21 year retired Marine Infantryman, just new to AK’s.

First off.. thanks for serving!

Everyone is a noob at something, you've done the first best thing to fix that problem, asking some questions

0. Please buy your parts from our sponsors, they pay the forum for a business membership and most of them have provided much help to many people.
1. There's no "EXACT" answer. There are three possibilities with the trigger guard; get/do which ever one you prefer.
I used the RAM STG on a 410, a Saiga Tech (non-sponsor) on an S12, and a Tromix DIY on another S12.
a. Modify and re-use your original trigger guard. See http://www.cross-con...sion/Step_5.htm
b. Get a weld-on trigger guard, if you know how to weld go for this.
c. Get a bolt-on trigger guard, if you don't know how to weld (like me) get this.
2. Remember you'll need to grind off a bit of the back of the Tapco G2 hammer, I use a bench wheel grinder to do this, just make it match your factory hammer. The Tromix FCG (fire control group) already has the hammer cut down.
3. I used the stock shepard's crook in one conversion, a retaining plate on another, and the original wire on a third.
4. Yup!
5. Cool
6. If you don't like the stock one, you can always add it in the future... at least you didn't say "extended clip release"
7. Not sure, I haven't done a 7.62x39 conversion, yet.

The main thing you want to think about is 922r compliance; I like to think of it as "10-or-fewer" foreign parts, strip your rifle down to 10-or-fewer Russian parts and re-build it using US-made parts.

Good luck!

[n102788]

sjgusmc21, on 14 September 2009 - 12:49 PM, said:

n102788, on 14 September 2009 - 10:02 AM, said:

welcome, you can reuse the trigger guard so you dont need to buy one. there will need to be modifacations to the reciever if you buy the double hook g2, the single hook g2 is a "drop in" instalation. lastley you will need a regular ak gas tube ramanian ones seem to be "drop in" and a modified regular ak retainer or if you got the doe a bolt on one from dinzagarms.com (get the bullet guide from dinzag). K-var is a good place for furniture. im pretty sure k-var is a conributer here as well as dinzag if not mods im sorry.

n102788: Thanks for the reply and help. I did not know I needed to replace the stock gas tube. First I read of that. This is the handguard I am debating on buying...

https://www.k-var.co...productid=17034

So I will need a new gas tube for this one? Will this one work, minus the wood?

https://www.k-var.co...productid=16770

If I have to convert the gas tube, I might just go with one of these...

http://dsgarms.com/i...---od-green.cfm

Somewhere, I saw one that I don't believe needed the retainer...can't remember right now.

Also, didn't know the g2 double hook needed modification. Guess I will go with the single hook.

Yes, I will be buying the bullet guide from Dinzag, no doubt.

I have the same gas tube and the black version of those handguards on the way from k-var i also bought the handguard retainer in the saiga conversion on the way. when i get them in i will tell you how well and easy it was. the onlly somewhat hard thing i will need to do is cut off the top part of the handguard retainer so i dont have to take off the gas block and the FSB. k-var's sale is a really good one now, i got everything i just mentioned for $72 shipped.

[1mile50]

Quote

2. I will purchase and install the G2 double trigger group. Shouldn't be a problem.

The Saiga receiver is not constructed properly to accept the double hook trigger...but, you can grind down on the bottom of the 2nd hook until the trigger will fit, and then a little more, for minimal overtravel. Makes for a better trigger. The receiver need not be modified.

[Tacticool]

sjgusmc21, on 14 September 2009 - 06:45 AM, said:

I am not concerned about it looking original. There will be no wood on it, although I think in the future I might get a set ‘just because’. I plan on the furniture being Olive Drab, and I will Duracoat the body in Flat Dark Earth. I would like the option to mount a bayonet on it, but for now that is a future project, as I know it will involve removing and replacing the FSG.

Again, thank you all for your input, and I have thoroughly enjoyed ready all of your post. Just think I ‘over-read’ and now my brain has ‘AK-Lockup’ Semper Fi and Take care!

Semper Fi! Is that OK coming from an Army guy?



1. You can reuse your existing trigger guard. There's a hole right near the pistol grip hole that you can bolt the rear of it through and then just stick the front under the magazine release. It will be solid. I bought a RAM Saiga Trigger Guard sold by Carolina Shooters Supply. Once that's installed I'll let you (the board) know how I like it. It's more a vanity thing than anything else.

2. To use the G2, you will need to mill/file/dremel out a matching slot in the trigger hole on the receiver. Not a big deal to do. You will also need to remove some metal from the right side of the hammer if you want to reinstall your Bolt Hold Open.

3. The Shepard's Hooks are fine. I've used them, hitch pins and the retaining plates. The retaining plates are by far the easiest to use.

4. You can dremel off the rivets or use a cold chisel if you don't have a dremel. I haven't used the chisel method myself but I will on my next Saiga.

5. You're squared away on the bullet guide. Dinzag is the best source.

6. An extended Mag Release is a personal preference. I have the RAM version of that also.

7. If you order a traditional handguard, you will need a new gas tube with the upper retainer and a lower retainer. Dinzag has bolt on lower retainers. These would be easiest unless you have a way to press off your front sight and gas block to put the mil spec one on. PersonallY I would go with the bolt on. If you want to save some money and hassle you can get the SGM Tactical tri-rail. I have two of them and I think they're great.

[sjgusmc21]

Thank you all for your help and guidance. I did not know that the gas tube came with a shield tacked on it (never saw a pic of it). I read that you can cut it off very easily. Is this true? It appears that the sales are over at K-var, so that hand guard is out. I was looking at this one earlier..

http://www.veriforce...ccessories/850/

Yes, I always try to support the vendors, as I am very heavy into Radio Control and the sponsors (for the most part) always go out of their way to help the members. If they have it, they have my business. unless they are way out of the ballpark in price.

Yeah, I am kind of picky on the correct installation, so I will probably buy one of the ready made trigger guards.

As for the rest....well its pretty much all up in the air for now. But I am slowly gathering my parts and finalizing my decisions on the ones that I am on the fence about.

Again, thank you all for your opinions and I will post as my progress moves forward. Buying the rifle is the easy part!

Semper Fi! BTW, Go Army!!!!

[imarangemaster]

That one you post the link for would still probably require a modified standard or bolt on lower handguard retainer.

[sjgusmc21]

I can't tell what model or make this hand guard is. Does anyone here know? Thanks.

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[Tacticool]

sjgusmc21, on 16 September 2009 - 03:42 AM, said:

I can't tell what model or make this hand guard is. Does anyone here know? Thanks.

It looks like a DPH with a bunch of rail covers on it.

[sjgusmc21]

Tacticool, on 17 September 2009 - 01:32 PM, said:

sjgusmc21, on 16 September 2009 - 03:42 AM, said:

I can't tell what model or make this hand guard is. Does anyone here know? Thanks.

It looks like a DPH with a bunch of rail covers on it.

Thanks Tacticool. Having a real tough time deciding on what hand guard I am going to use.

[sjgusmc21]

Well, so far I have received...

Gas tube with wooden upper hand guard...Wow, what a lot of cosmoline on it! Boiling hot water works wonders! That wood is really nice....
G2 double tap trigger
Bolt on trigger guard
K-Var OD pistol grip (with bolt and nut) and butt stock (NATO)
Plastic plugs
Retaining Plate
Bulgarian lower hand guard retainer (jury is still out on whether I will fork out the $80 bones for the bolt on or not or just modify this one)

So for now, just still debating on the hand guard. Decisions, decisions, decisions! God this Country is great it that is all I have to worry about! Hope all are having a great weekend. Take care.

[usmc_mwroseberry]

sjgusmc21, on 19 September 2009 - 08:26 PM, said:

Well, so far I have received...

Gas tube with wooden upper hand guard...Wow, what a lot of cosmoline on it! Boiling hot water works wonders! That wood is really nice....
G2 double tap trigger
Bolt on trigger guard
K-Var OD pistol grip (with bolt and nut) and butt stock (NATO)
Plastic plugs
Retaining Plate
Bulgarian lower hand guard retainer (jury is still out on whether I will fork out the $80 bones for the bolt on or not or just modify this one)

So for now, just still debating on the hand guard. Decisions, decisions, decisions! God this Country is great it that is all I have to worry about! Hope all are having a great weekend. Take care.

I have the UTG... Everyone talkes crap about them because they are chinese but I haven't had any problem with them so far. All you need to get with them is an AK gas tube (don't need the lower retainer) and you are good to go. You can also do a custom mod on your stock front hand guard like I started out with for the cost of a dremel blade. The UTG cools the gas tube and barrel much faster than the stocker IMO.

UTG rails:


By mwroseberry, shot with FinePix F480 at 2009-06-05

Custom Cut Stock handguard:


By mwroseberry, shot with FinePix A345 at 2008-11-16

Good luck devil,
Merritt
SGT USMC vet.

[sjgusmc21]

usmc_mwroseberry, on 20 September 2009 - 08:38 AM, said:

sjgusmc21, on 19 September 2009 - 08:26 PM, said:

Well, so far I have received...

Gas tube with wooden upper hand guard...Wow, what a lot of cosmoline on it! Boiling hot water works wonders! That wood is really nice....
G2 double tap trigger
Bolt on trigger guard
K-Var OD pistol grip (with bolt and nut) and butt stock (NATO)
Plastic plugs
Retaining Plate
Bulgarian lower hand guard retainer (jury is still out on whether I will fork out the $80 bones for the bolt on or not or just modify this one)

So for now, just still debating on the hand guard. Decisions, decisions, decisions! God this Country is great it that is all I have to worry about! Hope all are having a great weekend. Take care.

I have the UTG... Everyone talkes crap about them because they are chinese but I haven't had any problem with them so far. All you need to get with them is an AK gas tube (don't need the lower retainer) and you are good to go. You can also do a custom mod on your stock front hand guard like I started out with for the cost of a dremel blade. The UTG cools the gas tube and barrel much faster than the stocker IMO.

UTG rails:


By mwroseberry, shot with FinePix F480 at 2009-06-05

Custom Cut Stock handguard:


By mwroseberry, shot with FinePix A345 at 2008-11-16

Good luck devil,
Merritt
SGT USMC vet.

Merritt, thanks for the advice. Yeah, I pretty much go with what I want, not really concerned about what others think. As long as it is reliable and strong, I'm a go for it. You said yours is the UTG, did you cut the top front off and paint it? Thanks and take care! Semper Fi!

[usmc_mwroseberry]

[/quote]
Merritt, thanks for the advice. Yeah, I pretty much go with what I want, not really concerned about what others think. As long as it is reliable and strong, I'm a go for it. You said yours is the UTG, did you cut the top front off and paint it? Thanks and take care! Semper Fi!
[/quote]

Exactly as you stated I cut it off and painted it. Make sure you get a ak gas tube though so it doesn't shift forward on ya.

Semper Fi,
Merritt
SGT USMC vet.

[sjgusmc21]

usmc_mwroseberry, on 20 September 2009 - 08:20 PM, said:

Merritt, thanks for the advice. Yeah, I pretty much go with what I want, not really concerned about what others think. As long as it is reliable and strong, I'm a go for it. You said yours is the UTG, did you cut the top front off and paint it? Thanks and take care! Semper Fi!
[/quote]

Exactly as you stated I cut it off and painted it. Make sure you get a ak gas tube though so it doesn't shift forward on ya.

Semper Fi,
Merritt
SGT USMC vet.
[/quote]

Hey thanks for the fast reply! With that said, and last question, can you still use the iron sights? I read somewhere you could not? Thanks.

[usmc_mwroseberry]

[quote name='sjgusmc21' date='20 September 2009 - 10:00 PM' timestamp='1253498321' post='413889']

usmc_mwroseberry, on 20 September 2009 - 08:20 PM, said:

Merritt, thanks for the advice. Yeah, I pretty much go with what I want, not really concerned about what others think. As long as it is reliable and strong, I'm a go for it. You said yours is the UTG, did you cut the top front off and paint it? Thanks and take care! Semper Fi!


Exactly as you stated I cut it off and painted it. Make sure you get a ak gas tube though so it doesn't shift forward on ya.

Semper Fi,
Merritt
SGT USMC vet.


Hey thanks for the fast reply! With that said, and last question, can you still use the iron sights? I read somewhere you could not? Thanks.

The iron sites work just fine with my setup. I used them today actually. The only thing you won't be able to do is co-witness with an optic..... In otherwords you can't see the irons without removing any optic you would mount to the handguard rail. But if you're mainly using them for cooling purposes like I am it doesn't matter.

Good luck,
Merritt
SGT USMC vet.

This post has been edited by usmc_mwroseberry: 20 September 2009 - 10:34 PM

[sjgusmc21]

Thank again for all of your help. Well, finally ordered the saiga 7.62 through Peach Tree State. Wow, so far, very good service and I will post more once I received the rifle. Lisa is very nice and courteous. Hope you all have a great weekend.

[sjgusmc21]

I received my Dimpled Saiga 7.62x39 from Peach Tree State yesterday! Actually, I picked it up from Va Arms in Mananas, VA. Outstanding service and shipping from Peach Tree State however and it is dimpled as well! Thank you very much! As for the rifle... Well, as said before, I humped and shot the M16A1 and A2 for 21 years. Wanted something different, a little more punch to it, and not as finicky, and much cheaper to repair/upgrade. Didn't really know what to expect from this rifle or an AK (shot a couple of rounds out of one years ago). I have to say it is the crudest, most evil looking, nastiest hunk of metal that I have ever seen. AND I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!!! Got it broken down, inspected and started cleaning yesterday. That by itself says a lot about the platform as I have never broken one down before. Can't wait for all of my parts to arrive. Thank you all for your guidance and help. I will post some pictures as my work progress's. Semper Fi!

[YouWontHearItComing]

Congrats...

If you happen to check in the manual it will have a page with Techinnical Specs that will have your 3 shot groupings at 100 meters in there. Should be in Millimeters btw.... Smaller number is better..

Mine was made Dec 16th and the 'spread' was huge compared to others here (like 148mm) but it don't seem that wide to me so maybe the TESTER was 'vodka specialed' lol

Shoot is 'STOCK' first, then convert so if you need any warranty work it can be dones before you CHOP it up.

I didn't shoot mine first before conversion, just after, but after 200 rounds and no FTF/Jams I feel 'safe' with functionallity.

Take your time tinkering and enjoy..

[sjgusmc21]

YouWontHearItComing, on 01 October 2009 - 08:25 AM, said:

Congrats...

If you happen to check in the manual it will have a page with Techinnical Specs that will have your 3 shot groupings at 100 meters in there. Should be in Millimeters btw.... Smaller number is better..

Mine was made Dec 16th and the 'spread' was huge compared to others here (like 148mm) but it don't seem that wide to me so maybe the TESTER was 'vodka specialed' lol

Shoot is 'STOCK' first, then convert so if you need any warranty work it can be dones before you CHOP it up.

I didn't shoot mine first before conversion, just after, but after 200 rounds and no FTF/Jams I feel 'safe' with functionallity.

Take your time tinkering and enjoy..

Yeah, you are correct, but too late. I am already half way through the conversion. Hopefully, all will be OK. I cycled it, and all seems well. Shouldve, couldve, but didn't. Besides, I figure that if mine doesn't work right, it will be of the small minority that doesn't.

As for the conversion, it took me about 2.5 minutes to drill, and punch out the trigger group rivets/pins. Wow, that was really easy and I didn't make one mark on the rifle! This weekend, I will remove the plate, and finish the conversion. Hopefully that will go as easy. Famous last words I suppose. The hardest part is finding time between this, my wife and 18 month old little girl! BTW, whoever it was that talked up the new Dremel Tool Fiberglass cutting wheels, KUDO's to them! These things are awesome and you don't have to worry about them shattering in a 100 pieces and impaling into your face!

I recieved 4 steel 30 round Bulgarian mags yesterday from Aims. 3 were in descent shape, the inside of the 4th one feels like 100 grit sand paper. So, will work on them this weekend as well (kind of started them last night). Been a few years and brought back memories of stripping and cleaning magazines. I have to say these things are really heavy duty compared to my M16A2 mags. They are damn near weapons in their own right! TGIF and Semper Fi!

[sjgusmc21]

I have just about finished my conversion. Of course, I have to wait on the bullet guide, file down the magazine catch, etc., etc. I would like to put the clip on muzzle compensator on, but will wait until they hammer out the kinks in the clip on part. Absolutely underestimated how easy the conversion was...of course with everyone's help and prior exper.,it went very smoothly. I have even filled in the rivet holes with the plastic 'rivets'. Looks awesome. The jury is still out on the Galil hand guard. Like it so far, but will know more after I fire it. For those of you on the fence about converting your saiga, it really is that easy. Of course, with out my trusty dremel, it would have been hell! God, love the new cutting wheels. Took the rivets done in about 2 minutes each! I think the longest time spent was grinding down the Tapco G2 Double Hook Trigger Set. I will post pictures later, as it looks just like any other converted Saiga 7.62x39. A dream finally come true. Now to finish up cleaning the magazines, and wait for my Alumi-hyde II to come in the mail.

This post has been edited by sjgusmc21: 05 October 2009 - 04:58 AM

[YouWontHearItComing]

congrats. post pics when done.. How much did the Alumhide cost??

[sjgusmc21]

YouWontHearItComing, on 04 October 2009 - 01:07 PM, said:

congrats. post pics when done.. How much did the Alumhide cost??

I think they were around $12.00 each. I got Flat Black and OD. Only going to use it on the Mags for now. Shipping was a little high, $11.00 (hazmat).

This post has been edited by sjgusmc21: 05 October 2009 - 04:50 AM

[sjgusmc21]

OK, here are a few pics. She is soaked in clp for now.

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[sjgusmc21]

Dinzag, thank you for such a great and easy product to install! I just completed the x39 bullet guide and it took me no more than maybe 4 mins, which included measuring it 3-4 times! Also, great shipping, super FAST, and just an overall great kit! Thanks for the ear plugs and rivet hole plugs! I will most certainly be a returning customer! Once again, if you are on the fence about doing all of these conversions, then jump right of and 'Get'r Done!'

[warheel]

Nice looking job. I have finally decided to jump in and do the conversion..I've been to the range several times and put a couple of hundred rounds through my rifle and have had absolutely no issues. I had no idea I would enjoy shooting it this much.

Anyway my question to you is was the hole for the trigger there when you took off the plate or did you have to do some cutting? BTW thanks for your service to our country.

[sjgusmc21]

warheel, on 09 October 2009 - 09:39 PM, said:

Nice looking job. I have finally decided to jump in and do the conversion..I've been to the range several times and put a couple of hundred rounds through my rifle and have had absolutely no issues. I had no idea I would enjoy shooting it this much.

Anyway my question to you is was the hole for the trigger there when you took off the plate or did you have to do some cutting? BTW thanks for your service to our country.

Warheel, THANKS! and hope you are having a great weekend! Yap, all of the holes were there, didn't have to make any what-so-ever. I used the RAM TG bolt one, and fit perfectly! The 'hardest' (not really appropriate as nothing was difficult on this conversion thus far) was grinding down the G2 double tap to fit. But like I said, very, very easy and I really enjoyed doing it. Hope you have a dremel tool, and it you do I would suggest getting some of the snap on, fiberglass cutting wheels. Simply amazing!