[Moe Zambeak]

I am defintely holding on to my x39. I love it.

If I got the Draco, I would want to throw a MWI front end on it (like the one I have on my x39, and like the one pictured above), and stamp it and put a stock on it.

I was under the assumption that because the Draco was manufactured without a stock, as a pistol, that putting a VFG OR a stock on it would make it an AOW.

Am I wrong for thinking this?

[thehopping1]

I was told by my FFL that it would be an SBR. But that was for the stock, if you do a VFG only it might be an AOW. I thought AOW pertained to shotguns only though. This would be a good question for the new NFA section.

This post has been edited by thehopping1: 04 November 2009 - 07:45 PM

[Moe Zambeak]

thehopping1, on 04 November 2009 - 07:42 PM, said:

I was told by my FFL that it would be an SBR. But that was for the stock, if you do a VFG only it might be an AOW. I thought AOW pertained to shotguns only though. This would be a good question for the new NFA section.

Great idea. I just made this thread of there to see if someone could offer some guidance.

[Jpanzer]

thehopping1, on 04 November 2009 - 07:18 PM, said:

Moe Zambeak, on 04 November 2009 - 05:55 PM, said:

I am so torn!

I have been thinking about going 5.45, then the SGL20's went on sale. Then I saw this pistol.

This thing looks pretty sweet. I already have everything I need to convert another Saiga rifle, but I don't think I am going to see a deal on the SGL's like this again. Then on the other (third, lol) hand, that Draco pistol looks so bad ass

What do you guys think? SGL, or draco?

I feel the prices on the Saiga rifles won't be climbing up any time soon. I was going to get a 5.45 to get cheaper ammo, but prices on x39 has been creeping back down. That is why I am looking to just stay in the same caliber now. I guess I could get a x39 to convert and a Draco for around the price of the SGL, but it would be nice to have at least one rifle welded up right.

UGH, this is killing me, LOL!

IMO
If you get a Draco, count on a $200 tax stamp and an Ace style stock so it can be an SBR. The SGL series is a smoking deal though and I have been thinking about getting one, even though funds will not allow for a while. If you already have a X39, maybe you can sell it and get both. Just keep in mind that the Draco has no rail mount on the side of the receiver, so optics are going to be more tricky. But if LaRue re-releases the Iron Dot, the Draco would be a perfect candidate. Again just my opinion.

OR


If you are going to keep your X39 than go for the Draco. Who doesn't need an SBR?

That pic of the SBR is exactly what I would want to do, except with East German furniture. The problem is I've never done my own conversion, and though supposedly putting in a new rear block for a stock is simple, I've got no experience in putting rivets in a receiver. I figure a gunsmith would rape me even for a simple job, plus the headaches associated with SBR restrictions...

[post-apocalyptic]

Moe Zambeak, on 04 November 2009 - 07:37 PM, said:

I am defintely holding on to my x39. I love it.

If I got the Draco, I would want to throw a MWI front end on it (like the one I have on my x39, and like the one pictured above), and stamp it and put a stock on it.

I was under the assumption that because the Draco was manufactured without a stock, as a pistol, that putting a VFG OR a stock on it would make it an AOW.

Am I wrong for thinking this?

If you put a stock on a Draco, it becomes a SBR under the NFA. If you put a fvg on a Draco, it becomes a AOW under the NFA. I disagree with this law in general, (it's unconstitutional), but the fact that simply putting a fvg on it makes it require a NFA stamp is downright ridiculous. It's just a grip. Buncha bullshit, but not worth risking 10 years in Federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison over, obviously.

My advice is to buy a SGL21 while they last at ~$500. I seriously doubt you'll see a deal like this from Arsenal again anytime soon.. and objectively, the SGL21 is most definitely worth a hell of a lot more than any other AK type rifle selling for ~$500 in today's market.

I recently picked up my $500 plum Warsaw SGL21, and she's even a little nicer than my SGL20. All SGL rifles seem to be damn excellent, but this one is as close to downright perfect as any AK I've ever seen. She's dead on, (basically one big hole at ~50 yards), right out of the box and mag-wobble, (you expect some), is really non-existent. I'm about 80% sure I'll be buying another one, (to leave NIB), in the next few days, purely as an investment.

This post has been edited by post-apocalyptic: 04 November 2009 - 11:53 PM

[Moe Zambeak]

Thanks for clearing up the AOW SBR thing. So a stock and a grip make it an SBR with a VFG and not an AOW, right? I would want the VFG so I don't poke a hole in my front hand, LOL!

I'm starting to regret not picking up one of the SGL's with the MWI FHG. I have that FHG on my x39 and really like it.

I'm still torn on which one to buy, LOL!

[post-apocalyptic]

Those MWI railed handguards aren't that amazing, imo. I know it's subjective, but I try to keep my rifles as light as possible. What would you really attach to a railed handguard? A grip? Use the front of the magazine, (Spetznaz style). A light? Usually not necessary on a battle rifle, (close-quarters are what your S-12 and/or sidearm are for). A laser? C'mon now.. don't go all mall-ninja on us. If you want a forward-mounted scope, get an Ultimak product, (which allows you to co-witness with irons). Alternatively, get a LaRue AK Irondot, (great combo of red dot and replacement rear iron sight which mounts where your stock rear sight is). Personally I like to use the scope side-mount that is built into the receiver, but preferences will vary.

I'll make this simple. Buy a SGL21, (in any color). You will not be disappointed.. They are that superior to anything else out there in the ~$500 price range, (or most any price range, for that matter).

[Moe Zambeak]

Lol, just because you don't like the railed FHG doesn't mean everyone has to hate them.

I think I was pretty clear for my reasoning on putting it on the Draco (after I get a stamp), and I have an optic mounted on my x39.

All of the other alternatives you mentioned for optics cost well over teh price I paid for the MWI FHG and my optic combined. The LaRue Irondot is on hold right now while they redisgn it to work with the new optic, so that isn't an option unless I want to wait.

[Moe Zambeak]

I have to add that it is hardly a way to sway someone's opinion by bashing their ideas.

[thehopping1]

Hell the only reason I put a UTG quad rail on mine was to help keep it cool. I get shit for it all the time. I wish that MWI one was out before I bought it though, it would be on there right now. Remember it's you gun and to do with it as you please.

When that LaRue comes back out though. That's going right on the Draco. It's like it was meant for it.

[post-apocalyptic]

Moe Zambeak, on 05 November 2009 - 01:57 AM, said:

Lol, just because you don't like the railed FHG doesn't mean everyone has to hate them.

I think I was pretty clear for my reasoning on putting it on the Draco (after I get a stamp), and I have an optic mounted on my x39.

All of the other alternatives you mentioned for optics cost well over teh price I paid for the MWI FHG and my optic combined. The LaRue Irondot is on hold right now while they redisgn it to work with the new optic, so that isn't an option unless I want to wait.

Well, K-Var has some SGL21's with the MWI railed handguards in stock again. Check their website.

[vitamink]

I'd like to thank hops and postA for helping me with the decision to purchase a draco. Mine is currently on the way and hand picked (again thank u PA) from classic arms. I plan on SBRing the thing and i'd like a rail over the dust cover like the beryl rail, however there is no tang. Is there anyway around this? I guess i could put a new tang-havin' trunion in place, but then i couldn't use an ace folding stock. I'm open to suggestions.

[nalioth]

vitamink, on 05 November 2009 - 11:54 PM, said:

I'd like to thank hops and postA for helping me with the decision to purchase a draco. Mine is currently on the way and hand picked (again thank u PA) from classic arms. I plan on SBRing the thing and i'd like a rail over the dust cover like the beryl rail, however there is no tang. Is there anyway around this? I guess i could put a new tang-havin' trunion in place, but then i couldn't use an ace folding stock. I'm open to suggestions.

When you SBR it, it'll have a tang (unless you go with an ACE "cut the tang" stock mount).

[vitamink]

I'm not sure i understand. when you look at the pictures the rear of the draco appears to be blocked off and has no tang for a stock to mount to. I'm sure you know more than i do as i've never even held one before, so if you could elaborate as to where the tang comes from, unless your saying in the process of turning it into a rifle i'll be adding a trunion with a tang. I'm tired, sorry for the run on sentences.

[nalioth]

vitamink, on 06 November 2009 - 12:15 AM, said:

I'm not sure i understand. when you look at the pictures the rear of the draco appears to be blocked off and has no tang for a stock to mount to. I'm sure you know more than i do as i've never even held one before, so if you could elaborate as to where the tang comes from, unless your saying in the process of turning it into a rifle i'll be adding a trunion with a tang. I'm tired, sorry for the run on sentences.

Yes, one option is to completely remove the existing rear block, weld up the holes left by it's mounting and then install a fixed stock tang. This method will allow you to bring the Draco back to the same appearance as it's military brethren (see post #10 in this thread).

Another option is to drill and tap the existing rear block for an ACE compatible stock or folding mechanism. If you go this route, obviously you won't have a tang.

[post-apocalyptic]

...nm... (wish I could just delete posts)

This post has been edited by post-apocalyptic: 06 November 2009 - 01:23 AM

[Moe Zambeak]

post-apocalyptic, on 05 November 2009 - 02:10 PM, said:

Well, K-Var has some SGL21's with the MWI railed handguards in stock again. Check their website.

Thanks. I just saw that. It looks like the prices are already starting to creep up.

[Moe Zambeak]

Tx1021, on 28 October 2009 - 05:46 PM, said:

Don't know if yall have seen this one but its one of my favorites. BTW its not mine, these came from the calguns forum.

I was wondering if anyone knew what type of sling this guy has on his setup? It looks like the perfect single point for this!

I've been looking all over at single point slings. Most of the ones I have seen are all bungee style. I want something static.

If anyone has any other suggestions, I would be happy to hear them!

[Moe Zambeak]

^^^

I figured it out. The one pictured is a Troy Industries One Point Sling.

[Tx1021]

Yeah its the troy sling

heres the original link

http://www.calguns.n...t=146955&page=9

[Moe Zambeak]

Tx1021, on 11 November 2009 - 05:41 PM, said:

Yeah its the troy sling

heres the original link

http://www.calguns.n...t=146955&page=9

Thanks for the link. There were some pics on there that showed a bit more detail of the way he had it mounted. He used a piece of nylon webbing between the PG and receiver. Nothing permenent.

[post-apocalyptic]

Moe Zambeak, on 11 November 2009 - 10:45 PM, said:

Tx1021, on 11 November 2009 - 05:41 PM, said:

Yeah its the troy sling

heres the original link

http://www.calguns.n...t=146955&page=9

Thanks for the link. There were some pics on there that showed a bit more detail of the way he had it mounted. He used a piece of nylon webbing between the PG and receiver. Nothing permenent.

Yeah.. that's actually a pretty good idea imo. Obviously drilling and tapping the rear plate for a sling swivel is more ideal, but that is a permanent change, (and harder to accomplish).

Anyway, I'd still like to pick one of these Dracos up, (fucking perfect truck gun if nothing else imo), down the line. Hopefully they'll still be available in a month or two.

[Moe Zambeak]

post-apocalyptic, on 12 November 2009 - 12:22 AM, said:

Yeah.. that's actually a pretty good idea imo. Obviously drilling and tapping the rear plate for a sling swivel is more ideal, but that is a permanent change, (and harder to accomplish).

Anyway, I'd still like to pick one of these Dracos up, (fucking perfect truck gun if nothing else imo), down the line. Hopefully they'll still be available in a month or two.

That's probably what I will be doing with mine until/unless I SBR it. The nylon webing will let me keep the receiver virgin until I put a folder on there.

On that same thread the guy mentions the VFG that is teeny tiny on there. I looked it up and according to the manufacture it IS considered a VFG. Do you think putting a small nylon loop on bottom of the FHG would be considered a VFG? Or could I get away with it with out getting in trouble? I'm just looking to get the best control of this baby before I get my paperwork together.

[nalioth]

Moe Zambeak, on 12 November 2009 - 02:08 AM, said:

That's probably what I will be doing with mine until/unless I SBR it. The nylon webing will let me keep the receiver virgin until I put a folder on there.

On that same thread the guy mentions the VFG that is teeny tiny on there. I looked it up and according to the manufacture it IS considered a VFG. Do you think putting a small nylon loop on bottom of the FHG would be considered a VFG? Or could I get away with it with out getting in trouble? I'm just looking to get the best control of this baby before I get my paperwork together.

[Moe Zambeak]

[chupa]

I need one, bad. Been wantin' to build myself a "krink".

[Moe Zambeak]

I just picked mine up from my FFL today.

As soon as I got it home I checked everything out to make sure it was straight. It wasn't. The RSB is off pretty bad. I tried to take a pic of it. You can see the hum on the dust cover, and tell how bad the RSB is.

I called up the place I bought it from and the said to ship it back with a note saying what is wrong and they will replace it. I hope I get it back in time for the FL Saiga shoot.

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