[Petri317]

Howdy everybody. I'm new to posting, but have found this site an invaluable resource. I just wish I would have found it when Saigas were even cheaper! I've been itching to get a 7.62x39 Saiga for the purposes of plinking and hunting (inside of 200yrds.) I've been lurking around, researching 7.62 vs. 5.56, PG conversion, CA legalities, 922R etc. so I'm fairly well versed. My idea for this carbine is to leave it unconverted w/ an improved trigger from dinzag, wood furniture (purely aesthetics), and use it as a kind of semi-auto .30-30 while still in CA. Of course, when I leave, (got school for a couple more years) I intend to make it a polish underfolder look-alike. My questions relate to accuracy and potential conversion issues. I'm looking for opinions from those who've hunted with Saigas, as well as general accuracy impressions with quality optics and iron sights.

1. Will the AK/7.62x 39 match a Marlin .30-30 in the practical accuracy department for the intended use (Plinking/Hunting hogs & deer 0-200yrds)? I know this gun is branded a "hunting" rifle by the Russians, but is it a viable choice when compared to a .30-30?

2. My concern with doing a PG conversion is, although it is legal (With bullet-button or MM Grip) it may elicit not so friendly attention from uninformed game wardens and law enforcement. Are my concerns unfounded? And am I at a huge disadvantage if I leave the carbine unconverted?

I just want to make sure I'm getting the best weapon (value) for the money. I was considering a 5.56 mini-14 or Saiga but I like the extra punch and I won't be doing longer-range hunting with this carbine (for that I have a .270). Also, I can't believe how expensive Mini-14's have gotten. Overall, this firearm will be a plinker(defense if necesary)and a hunting "brush" gun.

Regards from Wine Country,
Peter

[SpetsnazGRU]

"1. Will the AK/7.62x 39 match a Marlin .30-30 in the practical accuracy department for the intended use (Plinking/Hunting hogs & deer 0-200yrds)? I know this gun is branded a "hunting" rifle by the Russians, but is it a viable choice when compared to a .30-30?"

I am not familiar with the accuracy of a Marlin .30-30, but both of the Saiga 7.62x39's that I own(ed), at their best, did about 2.5" groups at 100 yards. From everything I read, the ballistic performance of the rounds is similar - the .30-30 round initially got a little more punch to it, but the 7.62x39 mm round compensates for that with its more aerodynamically shaped bullet.

I took a deer with my Saiga (equipped with the Russian skeleton stock and a 4x24 illuminated reticle POSP scope) last Fall. Fired a Silver Bear 123 gr soft-point round from about 70 yards and hit it in the shoulder. It ran for about 25 yards, fell, kicked around for about ten second and died. The internal damage was pretty horrific. The bullet almost completely shattered the shoulder bone (I didn't have to cut through the bone to get the leg off when butchering the meat), sending multiple fragments into the lungs and made an ugly, golf ball-sized exit hole on the other side. For some reason, there practically wasn't any blood from either hole. The deer did bleed quite a bit from its snout though. I trust my Saiga as a deer gun for up to about 150... maybe 200 yards. I remember reading that at 200 yards, a 7.62x39 mm bullet still has about twice the amount of kinetic energy of a P+ 9 mm bullet exiting the muzzle.

This post has been edited by SpetsnazGRU: 03 November 2009 - 08:51 PM

[Rhodes1968]

It will not best a true hunting rifle but it will get the job done. The Marlin is an excellent hunting rifle and the 30-30 is close to the x39 ballistics its just going to be better than the Saiga. Boar drop very nicely from the Saiga so dear will also. I far prefer the 308 for hunting but will be comfortable with the x39 as well as long as the shots stay under 100yds. Just be sure to use good quality hunting ammo dont try to pinch pennys in that dept.

Game wardens are going to be a big variable good luck and stay LEGAL. Make sure you have a 5 round mag not just 5 rds in a 30 rd mag, that's important in some states.

[Petri317]

Thanks for the replies. I'll definitely be dotting my I's and crossing my T's with the legality part. Just to be clear, this will NOT be my primary big game getter. For that I have a Ruger .270. I'm just curious what it'll do in that role as compared to a Marlin. I'm split between buying a 7.62x39 Saiga or a Marlin 336 .30-30. It will be one or the other as they are so similar (ballistics).

[vjor]

I will say I have taken pig with the 7.62x39, it will drop them no problems at all, but something I will say, I had many saigas in 7.62x39
some will hit 2 or 3 inches at 100 meters, one was a put all over bullets, cant hit the side of a barn with it and one was like 1.5 inch at 100 meters
but must did 2 to 3 inches like I say before, when you buy a saiga you may get the cant hit the side of a barn with it or the one that can put
holes in a 2 inch at 100 meters, all in all the saiga rifles are robust and will take abuse no other gun can take, will digest about any ammo out there
and ask for more, with a good red dot or scope things can change a lot that with iron sights. The use of 5 round mags let you empty the gun in no time
and reload it in no time ( I use chicon 5 rounds ) as in my state sometimes you have to empty the gun when you walk on a road even if is
in the middle of no were when you hunt.

Don't take me wrong I love lever actions gun and love a good 30-30 marlin but all in all for all around and
don't worry gun the saiga will be the one as it can be mod in no time to take high cap mags if things
do go bad and have to use it for more than hunt , the gun is and all purpose gun but like all purpose gun
you will don't have the accuracy of a lever or bolt action gun, but you have the easy reload and fire power
you may need one day.


Any way I sound like a sales man, but is really you choice and what you want to do.


Good luck with what you get and enjoy the gun you get as that is the important thing about getting a gun.

[JanusthePhoenix]

Petri317, on 03 November 2009 - 06:58 PM, said:

2. My concern with doing a PG conversion is, although it is legal (With bullet-button or MM Grip) it may elicit not so friendly attention from uninformed game wardens and law enforcement. Are my concerns unfounded? And am I at a huge disadvantage if I leave the carbine unconverted?

An unconverted Saiga is not a bad thing at all. If I ever decide to pick up a Saiga in .308 or something, I might just leave it as is. Probably the most important difference would be the stock trigger, IMO.

California game wardens are absolutely an issue, I'm told. They are prone to shit bricks when they see a guy skulking around the woods with a Kalashnikov loaded with 30 rounds of rock'n'roll. If it were me, I would leave it unconverted for now. It is still a great gun.

[RoughRider666]

JanusthePhoenix, on 04 November 2009 - 10:45 AM, said:

Petri317, on 03 November 2009 - 06:58 PM, said:

2. My concern with doing a PG conversion is, although it is legal (With bullet-button or MM Grip) it may elicit not so friendly attention from uninformed game wardens and law enforcement. Are my concerns unfounded? And am I at a huge disadvantage if I leave the carbine unconverted?

An unconverted Saiga is not a bad thing at all. If I ever decide to pick up a Saiga in .308 or something, I might just leave it as is. Probably the most important difference would be the stock trigger, IMO.

California game wardens are absolutely an issue, I'm told. They are prone to shit bricks when they see a guy skulking around the woods with a Kalashnikov loaded with 30 rounds of rock'n'roll. If it were me, I would leave it unconverted for now. It is still a great gun.

Dude ive heard they tripout with anything over 5 rounds in CA if you're hunting, so even the 10 rounders need not apply in the CA hunting world...

[Rhodes1968]

5 round mags will not get you into trouble anywhere and if you are hunting its a no brainier to have one. Also get a US made one so there in so doubt on parts count just in case. That Marlin is just a fine hunting rifle, almost all marlin Levers for that matter. The only reason to get a Saiga is to fill the MBR role and of course it takes down all manner of life forms. I keep a five round mag for the 308 and the x39 for just hunting boar and the possibility of Washington insanity. If i wanted a strictly hunting rifle the 30-30 or 45-70 Marlin would be my first choice and happy with it.

[Petri317]

I'm definitely leaning towards a Saiga rather than a Marlin. I guess I should mention this gun will be for plinking/SHTF first, hunting a distant second. I have a .270 for hunting. I've got a friend whose plinker is a Marlin 336 his Grandpa gave him, and boy is that gun slick. But somehow I can't resist the Saiga (which is cheaper than a new marlin around here anyhow.) And while I'm in CA I will run only reduced capacity (5 and 10 rnd) mags until I escape to America. Its just nice to hear the experiences of those who have taken game with a Kalashnikov.

The other thing I'm debating is .223 vs. 7.62x39. Although for (future) standard-capacity mag availability, I think 7.62x39 wins.

This post has been edited by Petri317: 04 November 2009 - 10:12 PM

[Gangster]

My 2 cents.
I own both a 30-30 winchester and a saiga and would hunt with both of them. At 100 yards my 30-30 is more accurate, but the saiga is well within hunting standards and I wouldn't hesitate to hunt with it. That being said, 200 yards may be pushing it. If I was hunting with my saiga and a deer came out 200 yards I would definitely take a shot, but if I was expecting to be taking shots around 200 yards I would use a different gun. Out to 150 yards either saiga or 30-30. At 200 yards my 30-30 has the edge. That being said, the saiga is a hell of a lot more fun to shoot and in any self-defense/SHTF scenario, it is far superior to a lever action gun.

[Rhodes1968]

There is just something about a Lever gun. I think its all those Rifleman reruns I watched as a kid.

[Mullet Man]

supposedly the new Hornady LeverEvolution 30/30 ammo will add 75yds to a lever gun.


i would get them both....
 DSC01364.JPG (104.73K)
Number of downloads: 1

[Fluid Power]

I've stated before in this forum, WE NEED A Saiga Hunting Category! This could include Big Game, Small Game, Bird and Varmint!

What's everyone think???????????????

Frosty

[Petri317]

I don't know if enough people hunt with their Saigas, but it would be pretty cool. Would show the uninformed that these "Assault Rifles" can and are used to harvest game.

As to the idea of getting both a saiga and a lever-gun, I guess I could splurge, but then I'd either go with a .223 Saiga and .30-30, or a 7.62x39 saiga and a .45-70 lever-gun.

[post-apocalyptic]

Petri317, on 04 November 2009 - 08:10 PM, said:

...The other thing I'm debating is .223 vs. 7.62x39. Although for (future) standard-capacity mag availability, I think 7.62x39 wins.

+1

I agree.

Also, thank you for accurately referring to 30-round 7.62x39 mags as standard capacity, which they of course are.

This post has been edited by post-apocalyptic: 08 November 2009 - 02:02 AM

[GregM1]

i got my saiga for home defense and hunting. where i will be hunting is in east texas. if you can see over 200 yards at any point, i would expect that it is a man made clearing. it is such dense forest. i think the saiga will be perfect there.

[Petri317]

Yea, my plan is to use the carbine for Home Defense/Practical-Accuracy Improvement first, and Hunting second. From what I've heard from others, it should fill the ".30-30" role fine(Albeit a little less politically correct!)