[Paulyski]

Ok.
So I have bought a Pro-mag (No-mag), It is absolutely useless. I sent it back for warranty swap & the rat-bastards stole it. (Never sent it back & give me the run-around when I call)

I bought an AGP & is is slightly better, but still FTF/FTE at least 2 rounds per mag with both #6 2 3/4 & 3"rem & fed magnum.

Next is surefire, Will they work? I've herd good things, but I have herd good things about AGPs too.

I just want to buy a mag, load it & shoot my damn S-12.

This crap about modifying a $50.00 mag every time I test it is bullshit!
I drive 50 miles to where I shoot & there are no stoves to boil a mag in, Let alone the fact that I seem to have miraculous powers to make torrential downpours with hailstorms every time i go out shooting! (Next drought in the heartland, just pay my air-fare & ship my guns & I will solve that shit quick)

Needless to say this is pissing me off greatly!
At this point I would be better off with a Remmington or Benelli, they hold 8, I hold 5 & as it is I must reload every time I shoot 5 rounds. NOT COOL!! This is NOT supposed to be the S-12 experience is it?

Now I know there are good ones out there, Is surefire it?
Do people convert surefire fron 10 or 12 down to 8 to increase spring tension & make them work better?

I see MANY people with working AGPs, But I also see many people who (I assume) can't even get a video shot without a FTF/FTE.
I mean I personally wouldn't want to advertise that my strongest firearm cant even fire 7 shots without a misfeed so I would try untill I got a full mag through.

So do ANY American companies make a reliable 10 round mag? Are the Russians actually smarter than us in this regard?

For the love of pete, I even see videos of Mike having problems & he seems to be the most knowledgeable mag guy around here.

Should I just say fuck american mags & search for russian mags ONLY?

Just to be certain, we only have Pro-mag, AGP & Surefire to choose from for american stick mags, right?

My Russian factory 5 NEVER FAILS, so this must be a mag issue.

[Saiga12FURY]

I only own AGP GEN 2 10rd mags and they all work, i mean last time i went out shooting i shot about 300 shells and i think it jammed once! Maybe try AGP again ? I havent had any problems. Ive some extra ones for sale if your interested? Before i took my mags out i hand cycled the 10rds about 6-8 times for each mag then i would leave 2-4 rounds in them over night. Not sure if that actually helped but first time out they worked flawless, so maybe thats the ticket. Did you check what setting the gun was set on? What type of shells are you using ? brand and type?

This post has been edited by Saiga12FURY: 04 November 2009 - 11:59 PM

[vinnivanhood]

Well I was off to a rough start myself, I sure hope you find something that works!
I went through some crap with promag, sending mine in twice and then finally fixing it myself,
I do suggest communicating with them via email, I got quick responses that way
after never getting anywhere with them on the phone.
I just bought a second promag, they're so much more affordable and not that hard to get working.
Yes it is ridiculous having to fix something new but I still like them despite it.
As far as American made I'm holding out now for all the new stuff that'll be coming out
double stack mags coming from MD Arms, and Chaos is coming out with a mini drum and a steel stick mag.

[bigcec1]

Well I started out with the promag,s cause I got 4 of them from a gun show at 25$ a pop thought it was a bargin yeah your right went to agp got 2 1st gen ehh every now and then a problem then got a about 6 more gen 2 agp,s a failure one out of every 200 rounds so far my agp,s are gen 2 are pretty reliable but the most reliable are my 8rd russian,s

[post-apocalyptic]

Try some Surefires. I prefer them to AGP's. In my experience Surefires are more dependable and much easier to install/remove from the magwell.

This post has been edited by post-apocalyptic: 05 November 2009 - 12:48 AM

[thealmightysam]

I've run a few hundred rounds off my Surefires with zero failures to feed. I have no problems with spring tension in its 12-round configuration.

[billdeserthills]

So, Allmightysam have you tried keeping that SureFire mag loaded for a few weeks & then shooting with it?
Now, do tell me how great it works for you.

[post-apocalyptic]

billdeserthills, on 05 November 2009 - 01:04 AM, said:

So, Allmightysam have you tried keeping that SureFire mag loaded for a few weeks & then shooting with it?
Now, do tell me how great it works for you.

What are you trying to say? Has a Surefire mag that you've done that with failed on you? What brand of mag do you prefer?

[THE RIPPER]

The Surefire is at the top of my list.

By you saying this:

"Ok.
So I have bought a Pro-mag (No-mag), It is absolutely useless. I sent it back for warranty swap & the rat-bastards stole it. (Never sent it back & give me the run-around when I call)"

That bothers me because I just sent one in for warranty last week.
I better get one sent back or it will be time for a

[vitamink]

I guess i'm lucky that the only mag i've had problems with, and by problems i mean 1 ftf every 200hundred or so rounds, is my clear apg. All other mags i've tried, the surfire, the agp gen 2, md drums, and yes even an aa drum ran without a single problem.

[post-apocalyptic]

THE RIPPER, on 05 November 2009 - 01:08 AM, said:

...That bothers me because I just sent one in for warranty last week.
I better get one sent back or it will be time for a

Hmmm I think you might get by "Pro"Mag.

I don't do business with that company for so many reasons...

Anyway, you might have to just take the loss, (and slap on the ass ), and move on to some Surefires! I've owned probably about a dozen and never had a problem with any of em. They even make a 12-round clear mag, (lots of fun at the range)!

For general purposes, (and HD), I recommend 8-round Surefire mags.

This post has been edited by post-apocalyptic: 05 November 2009 - 02:32 PM

[THE RIPPER]

post-apocalyptic, on 05 November 2009 - 01:32 AM, said:

THE RIPPER, on 05 November 2009 - 01:08 AM, said:

...That bothers me because I just sent one in for warranty last week.
I better get one sent back or it will be time for a

Hmmm I think you might get by "Pro"Mag.



Anyway, you might have to just take the loss, (and slap on the ass ),

If I take the loss, I think that they will take the much bigger loss.
Negative feedback that they are getting on this forum will make their loss much greater than mine.



I'm more concerned about the slap on the ass.
Just let em try!


OR

I can bust out my Chaos Warthog out!

[Corbin]

I can only comment on my personal experience with Surefires and MD drums. I had an AGP, but never fired it and ended up trading it some time ago.

The 12 round Surefires are FREAKIN LONG. Much moreso than I prefer. I like the 8 rounders myself. One thing I DID notice with them while unloading a mag outside the gun.... sometimes on new mags, the last round doesn't always get kicked up the entire way. It sits just down far enough that the bolt probably wouldn't catch it, were it actually in the gun like that. I want to say though, with the mags in the gun, I have never been able to reproduce this by hand cycling the action or by firing it.

It's just something I noticed on brand new mags. After emptying the mag 4 or 5 times, I can't get it to do that outside the gun at all. I suspect there's a molding line or something that catches on the new ones.

Having said that, If I can't get or afford an 8 round Russian mag, I'd go with the 8 round Surefires. I have some older ones that take an extra round, but most of mine are newer models that don't.


Just my 2 cents. Your change may differ.


Corbin

[Nailbomb]

My first AGP still had some rough marks internaly from where they were molded. I had FTF on my first outing with them. took it apart, did some sanding to the insides of either side, and it worked perfectly. When i bought 2 more AGPs I didn't even bother testing them out of the box, the sandpaper went to work.

I've done many 3" magnum mag dumps scince then, and shot hundreds(probably thousends at this point) of rounds through them without failure on thier part.(i did have issues with my FCG at one point i con't blame that on them) When the snow flies i don't think twice about breaking them out. I've heard of the cold aiding in breaking them, but mine havn't. If one does pop at some point, better when i didn't need it than when i do...

all in all i like my AGPs.

My promags came to me with a ID smaller than the OD of a 12 guage shell, and no amount of hogging them out has been able to fix them(guess i should have put the chef hat on and boiled and baked them). Promag won't take them back due to me hogging them out.

My opinion is that with more work than i care to do, they can be made into descent range use only mags. I won't be buying any more of them, or any other products from them.

Due to NY restriction i never really picked up on the surefire 12s. They now offer other sizes and i'm interested, but can't speak for them really. I have one 2rd surefire that worked flawlessly out of the box, but i don't believe thats enough to make a proper opinion of them.

[thealmightysam]

billdeserthills, on 05 November 2009 - 01:04 AM, said:

So, Allmightysam have you tried keeping that SureFire mag loaded for a few weeks & then shooting with it?
Now, do tell me how great it works for you.

Haven't had a problem. The last time I had it out, I had it loaded for about a month. Zero failures to feed.

Springs don't lose their springiness from continued compression - if that were the case, every car on the planet would be sitting on its bumpstops. Springs lose their tension from repeated extension and compression.

In other words, I have not found that leaving a mag loaded will cause harm the spring.

[TO THE FLOOR]

Typed on my phone...no problem with any mag BUT I shoot silicone into my mags before thr first time I shoot them. Got that tip from this board. I have 5 pro mags 5 surefires and 1 AGP...again no problems with any of them.

This post has been edited by TO THE FLOOR: 05 November 2009 - 01:38 PM

[aresv]

For stick mags I have Gen. 2 AGP's and 8 round Surefires. Only had one malfunction: a jammed follower on an AGP where the sides bowed out too far. Was able to fix it by gently heating and squeezing the magazine sides in.

I like that Surefire mags can be cut down to smaller capacity easily. Smart industrial design that lets them make different sizes from the same or similar molds.
I like that AGP mags have replaceable steel feedlips.
I am also glad for the fact that I have never owned a Pro Mag and never will

This post has been edited by aresv: 05 November 2009 - 01:38 PM

[BpS12]

"The 12 round Surefires are FREAKIN LONG. Much moreso than I prefer. I like the 8 rounders myself. One thing I DID notice with them while unloading a mag outside the gun.... sometimes on new mags, the last round doesn't always get kicked up the entire way. It sits just down far enough that the bolt probably wouldn't catch it, were it actually in the gun like that. I want to say though, with the mags in the gun, I have never been able to reproduce this by hand cycling the action or by firing it."



I've noticed that there is a ramp at the top of the mags that starts off a bit too harsh and the rnds tend to catch on it. This often seems to go away after several cyclings and is no longer a problem. At least on my six AGP 10rnds.

[Jim Digriz]

THE RIPPER, on 05 November 2009 - 02:07 AM, said:

If I take the loss, I think that they will take the much bigger loss.
Negative feedback that they are getting on this forum will make their loss much greater than mine.

Unfortunately, I doubt it. People have been warning others for years on the Internet not to buy Promag, but people keep doing it in spite of the warnings. 99% of what they produce is crap. Those unethical bastards deserve to go out of business.

[motopolitico]

I bought a few surefires, (And had Cobra cut two of them down to 2 rounds). I am satisfied with their performance, but I had to do a fair amount of "A" and "B" fitting on the surefires to get them to lock into my Saigas. So, even with surefires, there will be filing required, most likely. I have some clear gen II AGP mags, and aside from a slight problem with the followers protruding too far after the last round is fired (AGP sent me new followers for free right away- good company to deal with), I haven't had any feeding issues, and the AGP mags didn't need to be modified. They locked positively right out of the box. But you have to know that what you really want is the MD-20. I would contact AGP directly about your feeding issues, and see if they can't get those mags firing reliably.

[THE RIPPER]

Jim Digriz, on 05 November 2009 - 04:10 PM, said:

THE RIPPER, on 05 November 2009 - 02:07 AM, said:

If I take the loss, I think that they will take the much bigger loss.
Negative feedback that they are getting on this forum will make their loss much greater than mine.

Unfortunately, I doubt it. People have been warning others for years on the Internet not to buy Promag, but people keep doing it in spite of the warnings. 99% of what they produce is crap. Those unethical bastards deserve to go out of business.

I'm pretty new to the Saiga and the forum.
Never heard the warnings.
Definitely learned the hard way.

I did call today and talked to a guy named Carlos.
I told him that they are getting some serious negative feedback on this forum.
He SEEMED to be concerned but I guess we will find out soon how he handles it.

Paulyski
I told him about you so he is expecting your call.

Actually anybody here who has ever had a problem,
call and ask for Carlos.
He is expecting calls from people on this forum.
Hopefully, I lit a fire under his ass and I'm not just wishful thinking.

If it doesn't work, quite a few people will hit this thread and see the warning.
Eventually, they will feel the pain.

Anyway
Lets see what happens.
Time will tell.

[Jim Digriz]

THE RIPPER, on 05 November 2009 - 06:59 PM, said:

Jim Digriz, on 05 November 2009 - 04:10 PM, said:

THE RIPPER, on 05 November 2009 - 02:07 AM, said:

If I take the loss, I think that they will take the much bigger loss.
Negative feedback that they are getting on this forum will make their loss much greater than mine.

Unfortunately, I doubt it. People have been warning others for years on the Internet not to buy Promag, but people keep doing it in spite of the warnings. 99% of what they produce is crap. Those unethical bastards deserve to go out of business.

I'm pretty new to the Saiga and the forum.
Never heard the warnings.
Definitely learned the hard way.

I did call today and talked to a guy named Carlos.
I told him that they are getting some serious negative feedback on this forum.
He SEEMED to be concerned but I guess we will find out soon how he handles it.

Paulyski
I told him about you so he is expecting your call.

Actually anybody here who has ever had a problem,
call and ask for Carlos.
He is expecting calls from people on this forum.
Hopefully, I lit a fire under his ass and I'm not just wishful thinking.

If it doesn't work, quite a few people will hit this thread and see the warning.
Eventually, they will feel the pain.

Anyway
Lets see what happens.
Time will tell.

I bought a 15 rd mag for a Hi Point carbine in spite of the warnings. Learned my lesson

[Jim Digriz]

THE RIPPER, on 05 November 2009 - 06:59 PM, said:

Jim Digriz, on 05 November 2009 - 04:10 PM, said:

THE RIPPER, on 05 November 2009 - 02:07 AM, said:

If I take the loss, I think that they will take the much bigger loss.
Negative feedback that they are getting on this forum will make their loss much greater than mine.

Unfortunately, I doubt it. People have been warning others for years on the Internet not to buy Promag, but people keep doing it in spite of the warnings. 99% of what they produce is crap. Those unethical bastards deserve to go out of business.

I'm pretty new to the Saiga and the forum.
Never heard the warnings.
Definitely learned the hard way.

I did call today and talked to a guy named Carlos.
I told him that they are getting some serious negative feedback on this forum.
He SEEMED to be concerned but I guess we will find out soon how he handles it.

Paulyski
I told him about you so he is expecting your call.

Actually anybody here who has ever had a problem,
call and ask for Carlos.
He is expecting calls from people on this forum.
Hopefully, I lit a fire under his ass and I'm not just wishful thinking.

If it doesn't work, quite a few people will hit this thread and see the warning.
Eventually, they will feel the pain.

Anyway
Lets see what happens.
Time will tell.

I bought a 15 rd mag for a Hi Point carbine in spite of the warnings. Learned my lesson quick. I've seen complaints about their mags for AKs, Hi Points, Ruger 10/22s, and others.

It seems that what they do is identify needs in the magazine market, and proceed to put out a corresponding (but crappy) product to entice people.

[billdeserthills]

post-apocalyptic, on 05 November 2009 - 01:06 AM, said:

billdeserthills, on 05 November 2009 - 01:04 AM, said:

So, Allmightysam have you tried keeping that SureFire mag loaded for a few weeks & then shooting with it?
Now, do tell me how great it works for you.

What are you trying to say? Has a Surefire mag that you've done that with failed on you? What brand of mag do you prefer?

I loaded my S-12 SureFire mag 1 week before I went shooting, 1st & 2nd round refused to chamber due to weakened mag spring? I pulled the rest of the ammo out & reloaded it, then it worked fine. I can't find any mag that I can keep loaded,that I can trust with my life. I find the Saiga 12 Ga to be so far ahead of it's time that the mags have yet to catch up. I guess I'll just cram it back into the safe & pull out my old No Knock Warrant gun, a 1919 with a crankfire & a 200 round ammo belt, at least until some manufacturer learns how to make a Heavy Duty mag spring for my Saiga.

[Coal_forge]

I have no experiance with apg, but the surefire mag I have is fantastic. The 10rd promag first got--damn spring broke into many pieces the second time shooting the gun. It broke like the steel wasn't tempered at all. Infuriated, I purchased a surefire mag. While waiting for it ship, I used an ak47 mag so could still use 2 mags at the range. Supringly the promag workes better than before and the follower now acts as LRBHO.

[post-apocalyptic]

billdeserthills, on 06 November 2009 - 01:10 AM, said:

post-apocalyptic, on 05 November 2009 - 01:06 AM, said:

billdeserthills, on 05 November 2009 - 01:04 AM, said:

So, Allmightysam have you tried keeping that SureFire mag loaded for a few weeks & then shooting with it?
Now, do tell me how great it works for you.

What are you trying to say? Has a Surefire mag that you've done that with failed on you? What brand of mag do you prefer?

I loaded my S-12 SureFire mag 1 week before I went shooting, 1st & 2nd round refused to chamber due to weakened mag spring? I pulled the rest of the ammo out & reloaded it, then it worked fine. I can't find any mag that I can keep loaded,that I can trust with my life. I find the Saiga 12 Ga to be so far ahead of it's time that the mags have yet to catch up. I guess I'll just cram it back into the safe & pull out my old No Knock Warrant gun, a 1919 with a crankfire & a 200 round ammo belt, at least until some manufacturer learns how to make a Heavy Duty mag spring for my Saiga.

The spring in that particular mag may have had a problem, (or the follower may have been dragging on some imperfection on the inside of the mag body), but springs do not weaken simply by keeping them compressed. Springs weaken by repeated compression and expansion, i.e. general use.

Anyway, if you're looking for a mag to bet your life on, I suggest the factory Izhmash 5-round mag, (or 8-round, if you're willing to spend what they cost). I keep my factory 5 loaded with 3 rounds of 00 buck followed by 2 slugs. I keep a Surefire 8-rounder at hand loaded with alternating buck and slugs, should any situation require a reload.

This post has been edited by post-apocalyptic: 06 November 2009 - 02:24 AM

[Paulyski]

THE RIPPER, on 05 November 2009 - 06:59 PM, said:

Jim Digriz, on 05 November 2009 - 04:10 PM, said:

THE RIPPER, on 05 November 2009 - 02:07 AM, said:

If I take the loss, I think that they will take the much bigger loss.
Negative feedback that they are getting on this forum will make their loss much greater than mine.

Unfortunately, I doubt it. People have been warning others for years on the Internet not to buy Promag, but people keep doing it in spite of the warnings. 99% of what they produce is crap. Those unethical bastards deserve to go out of business.

I'm pretty new to the Saiga and the forum.
Never heard the warnings.
Definitely learned the hard way.

I did call today and talked to a guy named Carlos.
I told him that they are getting some serious negative feedback on this forum.
He SEEMED to be concerned but I guess we will find out soon how he handles it.

Paulyski
I told him about you so he is expecting your call.

Actually anybody here who has ever had a problem,
call and ask for Carlos.
He is expecting calls from people on this forum.
Hopefully, I lit a fire under his ass and I'm not just wishful thinking.

If it doesn't work, quite a few people will hit this thread and see the warning.
Eventually, they will feel the pain.

Anyway
Lets see what happens.
Time will tell.

I tried again...

Carlos, as all the people I have talked to was once again obliging, albeit he said to call back Monday It's like deja'vu all over again!

He blames the "old" returns department..... Ooooo-Kaye.

He said that he would ship one out regardless if he could find my package or not.
I am certain they have a record of it, as I used their UPS account to send it to them.

We will see what happens.

Call me a pessimist, but I have been setting off smoke detectors every time I pass gas after talking to this company...

 image004.jpg (49.22K)
Number of downloads: 9

Hopefully I can say something good about this company (Pro-mag) soon.

But as my Pops says... Hope in one hand & shit in the other... See which fills up first.

P.S. I bought my promag @ the same brick & mortar shop that I bought my S-12 at, at the same time. Had I known about the S-12 forum & researched, I would have gone 20 miles away & got a surefire.

I think I can get the AGP to work on my own.. At least I hope I can. The part that sucks is how far I drive to shoot. There are no shotgun friendly ranges around here & I wouldn't like a rangemaster hovering over me anyhow if there were.

When I shoot, my only master is the Lord.

Besides, blowing stuff up with shotguns is more fun when I can empty the beer can before I shoot it .

This post has been edited by Paulyski: 06 November 2009 - 07:54 PM

[690gr]

I have never had an issue with my Surefire 8rd. I like the 8 round for its close approximation to the size of the AK 30 rounder, its balance when fully loaded (especially vs a 12rd!), and its handling especially for reloads. The Russians never made a larger capacity mag than 8 so maybe there is a reason for it.

This post has been edited by 690gr: 07 November 2009 - 12:20 AM

[obake]

I have a few Pro-mags. Had to fix the followers with the old "cork-n-fork" method but they funtion without a hitch. Maybe I am lucky. I am going to pick up a few Surefire 8 rounders next. I dislike the donkey dick mags. 12 rd mags look retarded.

[DSM Loki]

I bought 2 promag 10 rounders with my gun before I had been on the forum. After the cork & fork, they worked for a while, till the follower shrunk back in. I resorted to cutting a piece of copper flat stock to the proper size to force the followers out to a point that they're straight. I've always had a problem with the followers catching since I got them. I can almost get it to fire 2 rounds before a FTF. As soon as I get some more cash together I'll be ordering some surefires. I also don't feel like bothering with promag, the best they could do is replace my shitty non-functioning mags, with two more, newer, shinier, non-functioning mags.