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G3 mag adaptors - Last Call


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Alright, I'm back from school and have some time available to get some stuff done while finding work. Throughout last summer, everyone was waiting with bated breath for my G3 magazine adaptors to be finished. Got the prototype done near summer's end and made it work successfully, with limitations.

 

Throughout the year everyone was asking about them and quite a few said they wanted one right now, then I explained what modifications it required, and they all bailed, except for a few in cases where I had to tell them I'd get back to them.

 

Well this is it. What you see is what I have (though any future versions will be a little bit smoother.) ALL information is available on these threads. If you have any further questions, please ask on THIS thread so that all can see the answers.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=1348

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=2858

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=1523

 

Price is $80 shipped (con-US) and includes ONE slightly modified G3 mag which will still work in a G3 (thus it complied with the old ban.) This includes all components necessary. A feed-ramp is integrated into the adaptor.

 

For those with slightly more creative ideas or who want to do more fitting themselves, I will offer unfinished mag adaptors, which will include the mag well and working mag catch and will accept a magazine (not included, modify to your own preferences) but on which you must still remove a bit of material to make it fit (either with a milling machine or a lot of work with a dremel.) Unfinished mag adaptors will be $60 with no magazine (your project may require a different mod to the mag.

 

The end result will ultimately become YOUR rifle skillfully modified by YOU using my mag adaptor as a component. As such I can offer no warranty, only a ten day return policy if the adaptor is unmodified, with refund minus shipping costs (can't just LEND them out, but I will refund as best I can.) Obviously I cannot be responsible for anything that happens to your rifle.

 

Additionally, I can promise no timeframe or quantities to be produced, and will fill firm requests first come first served as long as I can. What I will promise is that I will take NO ONE's money without their adaptor finished.

 

This is basically your last chance to show me that you guys really want these G3 magazine adaptors. Thus far there's tons of talk of other prospects and no results. The only other hi-cap options are a pretty funky conversion to an M4 mag, or a mod for Galil, M14, or G3 mags that require modification to the trunion. My system involves modification to the receiver, but nothing to the trunion, which bears the stresses of the bolt lockup while the receiver bears only the recoil of the section ahead of it.

 

This is it guys, tell me if you want them or if you'd be happy for me to close this project up, make other accessories, and buy myself a FAL.

Edited by BattleRifleG3
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No offense taken, but remember that my adaptor has been developed and uses cheap G3 mags with a minor mod that will still allow them to work in a G3.

 

I seem to recall everyone's been holding out on quite a number of sources of hi-cap mags that just haven't happened.

 

This is real, guys, for what ever else it's worth. Anyone who is actually offering hi-cap mags is perfectly welcome to hijack this thread.

 

I've just been tearing my hair out for the past year over all the promises and speculations and rumors about hi-cap mags becoming available when thus far NOTHING has happened apart from innovations such as this, and none so far involve either an easy mod to the mag or leave the trunion intact. All the others involve either a wild modification to a magazine or require that material be removed from the trunion.

 

This is real guys. It really exists. It's not waiting for an import license or still tooling up. I have one made and I can make more as long as I have the time, which I currently do.

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Actually,

I wouldnt mind a major magazine mod so long as i did nothing to the rifle that precluded using factory mags.

 

I can't speak for everyone, but the idea of modifying the trunion or any part of the rifle in a permanent or very difficult-to-reverse way is the part I am balking at.

 

Obviously one that requires no welding will work as well! That is, one that anyone with a dremel can REMOVE metal from an existing mag. But not everyone can weld something ONTO a mag.

 

Now, personally i do not yet weld- and I need to fix that!- but a HK 91 mag with a lot of grinding/filing, bending the follower, smoothing out the inside fo the mag body, and a few welds to add some mag catches to the mag body will work when loaded with 18 (or less) rounds WITHOUT modifying the rifle at all.

 

I have seen one, and its not quite perfect, but for someone who can do the metal work it seems very doable. So while i will still need to pay for someone to do my dirty work, i think it can be done.

 

No, i can't say where I say the mag.

 

FWIW. We all want our cake and to eat it too.

 

C-

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My conversion involves NO welding. It involves a one-time in depth dremel conversion of your Saiga receiver and the installation of the adaptor. And each mag requires a small amount of material to be relieved on each mag.

 

And there is NO modification to the trunion. This was my principle when starting out.

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G3,

Did you ever get a chance to conver some mags to work with unmodified rifle?

Did you ever get the whole mag to feed w/o problems?

How many rounds since removal of suppor pin have you fired?

The removal of cross pin worries me a little.

The whole Daewoo mag deal is starting to smell to me...

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1. Mags to work with an unmodified rifle would be a whole different ballgame. And I no longer have an unconverted rifle.

2. The conversion is permanent, though with a little ingenuity and work I'm sure one could convert it back to using standard mags.

3. Regarding reliability, I believe I have figured out how to solve that problem, and I will report when I've tried it. If so, you'd simply replace the extra link on your recoil spring rod with a BlackJack buffer.

4. Other conversions involve modifying the trunion. Modifying the receiver and not the trunion is FAR FAR safer. The mag adaptor has braces on the side to supplement the structure of the receiver, though I don't think it needs it after building and using my setup. Regarding how many rounds I've sent downrange with it, not extremely many, but that will hopefully change very soon and I'll be able to report. Remember that the receiver of a stamped AK takes only recoil force, not the entire force of the round being fired in the chamber. It's not a high stress part.

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Update - SUCCESS!!

 

Sent several full mags downrange last weekend.

 

Replacing the 308-specific spacer on the back of the recoil rod with a BlackJack buffer licked the jamming issues. Aditionally, I'll be adding a steel plate to the feedramp surface to reduce loading friction and wear.

 

There are NO signs of ANY problems with the receiver, though I already expected that since the receiver receives NO force due to the bolt pressure, only recoil force from the front end assembly.

 

Anyone waiting for this development you have your answer.

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  • 2 weeks later...

BattlerifleG3,

I sent a e-card and a response on THE hi-cap thread. I am in and would like to try one of your adaptors. I am tired of waiting and agree with you that the modifications to the rifle, though irreversible, will not adversely affect the performance or value of my rifle.

 

I know the response to your adaptors has been dissapointing so let me know if you are still planning to put these out. If so, I'll take one for now. :super::super::super:

 

macbeau*at*juno(dott)comm.

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Macbeau, you might be an adventurous guy!

If Macbeau gets one and it works flawlessly and easily, etc etc then

this could go a long way toward dispelling fears about these things.

 

See no one thinks you, BattlerifleG3, are misleading anyone or trying to pull a fast one. Your item probably does work perfectly, all the time, with all mags, etc etc. You may be the future most popular guy in the saiga-308 community, your star just has yet to rise. I believe I know what the hold up is.

 

Its just that YOU are the only one who knows it for sure about the function of your magwell adapter; i.e. has seen it in person.

 

Right now, consider the scenario. You have alot of people with S-308's who want higher cap mags. True.

Right now, factory 8-rounders are expensive and somewhat scarce- but not too bad.

Right now, their guns work perfectly and so do their expensive 8-rd mags..

 

So the 2 possible answers, other than factory mags, are:

1. aftermarket highercap mags, or

2. a magwell adapter, like yours.

 

The reason people are hoping (against hope, apparently; unless Rick-16 comes through!) for the aftermarket mag is that if it doesn't work; then oh well. Back to 8-rounders that work fine. Only money and hope lost.

They also know that an aftermarket mag IS POSSIBLE, just not forthcoming as of now.

 

(Now let me drop the collective voice so as to speak only for myslef here. I would bet my feelings echo others, though.)

 

What your adapter forces me to risk is a permanent modification to a rifle I enjoy. One screw-up on the changes to the receiver and whatever else and BLAM- wont work with your magwell AND wont work with factory mags. Meet my new singel shot S-308. Way too risky!

 

 

Now, you apparently have confidence in your device. What you need is a few others to vouch for it as well. Looks like Macbeau may be your new product spokesperson!

 

Too bad these things require FFL transfers, or you could do product samples. Say, send out a finished rifle to a person who has sent you a notarized statement of intent to pay, assuming the conversion works as described or >30 days has passed or something. That's a cumbersome way to 'loan' out a sample and have a legal means of extracting payment if a potential buyer tries to run. (i.e. you have to prove name, address, and content of a notarized statement- so you can find the guy later if you need to.)

 

Good luck to you and macbeau with these. I hope, i really do, that these work!

 

C-

Edited by cpileri
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As soon as I get up with the technology, I'll see about posting a video.

 

Meanwhile Macbeau will be able to confirm that they do in fact exist and work and don't require the bizarre and twisted offerings some folks have said they would give for a hi cap mag for their Saiga-308.

 

Macbeau, you might be an adventurous guy! 

If Macbeau gets one and it works flawlessly and easily, etc etc then

this could go a long way toward dispelling fears about these things.

 

See no one thinks you, BattlerifleG3, are misleading anyone or trying to pull a fast one.  Your item probably does work perfectly, all the time, with all mags, etc etc.  You may be the future most popular guy in the saiga-308 community, your star just has yet to rise.  I believe I know what the hold up is.

 

Its just that YOU are the only one who knows it for sure about the function of your magwell adapter; i.e. has seen it in person.

 

Right now, consider the scenario.  You have alot of people with S-308's who want higher cap mags.  True.

Right now, factory 8-rounders are expensive and somewhat scarce- but not too bad.

Right now, their guns work perfectly and so do their expensive 8-rd mags..

 

So the 2 possible answers, other than factory mags, are:

1. aftermarket highercap mags, or

2. a magwell adapter, like yours.

 

The reason people are hoping (against hope, apparently; unless Rick-16 comes through!) for the aftermarket mag is that if it doesn't work; then oh well.  Back to 8-rounders that work fine.  Only money and hope lost.

They also know that an aftermarket mag IS POSSIBLE, just not forthcoming as of now.

 

(Now let me drop the collective voice so as to speak only for myslef here.  I would bet my feelings echo others, though.)

 

What your adapter forces me to risk is a permanent modification to a rifle I enjoy.  One screw-up on the changes to the receiver and whatever else and BLAM- wont work with your magwell AND wont work with factory mags.  Meet my new singel shot S-308.  Way too risky!

 

 

Now, you apparently have confidence in your device.  What you need is a few others to vouch for it as well.  Looks like Macbeau may be your new product spokesperson!

 

Too bad these things require FFL transfers, or you could do product samples.  Say, send out a finished rifle to a person who has sent you a notarized statement of intent to pay, assuming the conversion works as described or >30 days has passed or something.  That's a cumbersome way to 'loan' out a sample and have a legal means of extracting payment if a potential buyer tries to run.  (i.e. you have to prove name, address, and content of a notarized statement- so you can find the guy later if you need to.)

 

Good luck to you and macbeau with these.  I hope, i really do, that these work!

 

C-

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As soon as I get up with the technology, I'll see about posting a video.

 

 

You mean to tell me as much as you preach about this conversion. You dont have 300 bucks to go to the nearest Wallyworld buy a camera , or know someone with a camera. For you to make a short clip on how your *so called* conversion works? And you want 80 bucks !!

 

AAAA YA OKAY !! :lolol::lolol::lolol:

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Personally, I could care less if BRG3 doesn't have photo skills. If I had wanted pretty pictures of what this adaptor should look like, I'd have gone to some geek who does nothing but photoshop pictures of his girl friends head onto super models bodies.

All I care about is his skills with machine tools. Sheesh - I know a lot of you out there aren't supposed to use a can opener without adult supervision. :haha: Give the guy a break.

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It's not a matter of money to post the video, I have a friggin camera, it's just finding a host for the video and uploading. I'm sure it's easy I just haven't learned how to do it yet becuse I've been too busy working on MECHANICAL things that don't violate me with computer viruses (long story, yes I use Norton, no it's not that simple)

 

On that subject, I fear I may be away from the internet a few days at a time while fixing my poor internet violated computer. Rest assured I'll still be at work on your gun stuff, just will be a few days apart in the posts probably. I have to use the library until my home computer gets fixed.

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Personally, I could care less if BRG3 doesn't have photo skills.  If I had wanted pretty pictures of what this adaptor should look like, I'd have gone to some geek who does nothing but photoshop pictures of his girl friends head onto super models bodies. 

All I care about is his skills with machine tools.  Sheesh - I know a lot of you out there aren't supposed to use a can opener without adult supervision.  :haha:  Give the guy a break.

 

Well since you wanted to talk on a personal note. I guess I will as well. First I trust a CNC Lathe on a receiver and a qualified gunsmith with LOTS of experience, then some inexperienced know it all with a dremel. If I wanted a extra 10 shots Ill just buy a extra magazine ,still can get them for 30 bucks and wait for a qualified distributor to make higher cap magazines. Why would you trust someone with non certified anything , and them charge you 80 bucks to do so, when all it takes is a knick too far on your receiver and then you have to purchase a new one if thats all that was damaged. Use a little more common sense. If Afro Engineering is your trade then by all means, do what you will. But if your going out of your way to make something for a profit off the internet, try to use less Afro Engineering. Here is a side note instead of your dremel, try taking your receiver to the nearest machine shop or tool and die. And a non modified magazine for it to work. Im sure youll have a profit on your hands then.

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It's not a matter of money to post the video, I have a friggin camera, it's just finding a host for the video and uploading.  I'm sure it's easy I just haven't learned how to do it yet becuse I've been too busy working on MECHANICAL things that don't violate me with computer viruses (long story, yes I use Norton, no it's not that simple)

 

On that subject, I fear I may be away from the internet a few days at a time while fixing my poor internet violated computer.  Rest assured I'll still be at work on your gun stuff, just will be a few days apart in the posts probably.  I have to use the library until my home computer gets fixed.

 

 

www.putfile.com , all you have to do is get a camera make a short clip. Upload that short clip to a specifc file off the camera and upload it to www.putfile.com , not very hard to do. I just did a short search engine and there ya go. Free and no cost to you. BTW

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I was about to respond with thought but re-reading your post it's clear that all you want is to feel important on the internet by blasting someone else.

 

Look, if you don't want one of these, don't friggin buy it. I am responding to massive interest. This adaptor kit is NOT for the inexperienced, but neither does it require an engineering or technical degree (by the way I have the former.)

 

IF you can convert an X39 or 223 Saiga to hi-cap and standard P-grip and FCG, it is a small step up in skill to install this adaptor.

 

One slip and you've ruined your receiver? For the record, ALL critcal dimensions are on your rifle and on the adaptor. User performed work on the receiver does require skill, but there IS a margin for error, and if you can do the P-grip/FCG/hi-cap conversion on another Saiga, you should have the skills to do this right. It'll take more than just a wee nick too far in the receiver to ruin it. It's your gun, it's your responsibility, it's your call.

 

Afro Engineering? I have no patience for racism. I have a degree in mechanical engineering. No that doesn't in and of itself make me good at anything, but I know a thing or two about mechanics of materials and machining both from my degree and from work experience.

 

Take your receiver to tool and die? I don't think so. Working on a firearm receiver for money requires a Federal Firearms License for gunsmithing. And most standard gunsmith programs have absolutely zip to do with the AK design. Ever wonder why so many people do their own gun work on AKs? Because they're simple enough and because most gunsmiths are specialized around bolt guns. It's legal to work on your own guns, but not for others for money.

 

There are parts critical to safety and there are parts that only relate to reliability. I chose to modify the latter and leave the trunion intact.

 

"If I wanted an extra 10 shots" You apparently are hapy with your factory 8rd mag and don't feel the need to buy another. If that is the case, I don't know why you have have to spew incorrect statements and degrade my work with racist terminology.

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BRG3 This may not be the 'money' idea, but stay with it, sonner or later (hopefully sooner) one of your excellent creations will catch fire! If your wooden handguards fit the .410 I will buy one for the wife!

 

G O B

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just what is your definition of "afro engineering"

I've heard the phrase N-Rigging and Jew-Rigging used to describe things cobbled together without skill. Irrespective of my race (which does not match my avatar), I have an engineering degree and work experience in machining. I've done things far more precise and critical than a mag adaptor, including with guns, though much of my gun work is not marketable due to liability and licensing requirements. The mag adaptors use modfication to non-critical areas of the gun. That's why I say it can be done by a Saiga conversion afficionado at their own responsibility for liability.

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Irrespective of my race (which does not match my avatar),

Ironically, I look more like my avatar than I'd care to admit. I have a bit more hair and am a paler shade of green, but... :rolleyes:

 

I have also heard the term "bubba build" to refer to trial & error, hobby gunsmithing. I suppose I should find the term offensive, what with living in South GA and all. However, since I don't have a full machine shop and am not trained or qualified to call myself a gunsmith AND I am pretty handy with a Dremel tool, I guess the shoe fits. As to the other terms mentioned here that refer to less-than-professional gunsmithing, I'd prefer not to go there. Those are mean spirited and counter productive slurs that people use to try to attain some sort of superiority when they are loosing an argument.

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Indeed, the WECSOG is actually pretty established these days with attention where it is really necessary and a focus on work that has a suitable margin for error.

 

Everything has a margin for error. With diesel engines, it's not even a thousandth of an inch in some cases. With bores, it's a few ten thousandths, at least for safety and reliability. For fitting critical parts, only a few thousandths. Feeding is a whole different matter. For a magazine well, hundredths are just fine, and even then there are only certain surfaces and dimensions that need it.

 

Oh, and for those who have to see it to believe it, I did post pictures on the other threads that I linked in the first post. Video will come whenever I get the technology up and running.

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Well since you wanted to talk on a personal note. I guess I will as well. First I trust a CNC Lathe on a receiver and a qualified gunsmith with LOTS of experience, then some inexperienced know it all with a dremel. If I wanted a extra 10 shots Ill just buy a extra magazine ,still can get them for 30 bucks and wait for a qualified distributor to make higher cap magazines. Why would you trust someone with non certified anything , and them charge you 80 bucks to do so, when all it takes is a knick too far on your receiver and then you have to purchase a new one if thats all that was damaged. Use a little more common sense. If Afro Engineering is your trade then by all means, do what you will. But if your going out of your way to make something for a profit off the internet, try to use less Afro Engineering. Here is a side note instead of your dremel, try taking your receiver to the nearest machine shop or tool and die. And a non modified magazine for it to work. Im sure youll have a profit on your hands then.

 

 

you are an idiot

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