TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Now we have a big fucking problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
woofer2425 0 Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Now we have a big fucking problem. I'm very interested in this piece of news Tony. One of the S-12s from FBMG is mine for you to convert. Hope they are not all with the barrels that are too short. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 (edited) All the ones I got from FBMG and RSR have 17.2" barrels. They would be 18.2" if the choke was blind pinned in place. I will have to add a permenant extension, flash hider or something to everyone's gun. Edited February 10, 2006 by TonyRumore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tsargis 0 Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 I noticed this last night while measuring mine. I can only imagine they are measuring from the rear barrel extensions. That's over 18". I'm also prepared to weld on my flashhider to keep it well over 18". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Now we have a big fucking problem. I'm very interested in this piece of news Tony. One of the S-12s from FBMG is mine for you to convert. Hope they are not all with the barrels that are too short. Holy Schmokes! How many of these will pass thru to end users because they are assumed to be kosher. I hate to even second guess the ATF's response At the very best, this is going to be a HUGE inconvenience. Tony, Please no insult meant, but I have to ask ... How many shotties? Are they all measuring consistent? I understand the measuremeant to be ... close bolt, stick rod down till touches breech face, mark stick at bbl end. measure from end of stick to the mark. This seem about right? Wow, over a year to get them here and they are SBS's? Outrageous. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Yes, I measured them with a rod down the barrel, up against the closed bolt. I measured 12ea of them. They are all 17.2". This happened in the 80's with a batch of HK93's. They had 15.3" barrels on them. They had to go back to the distributer to have an extension permanently affixed to the barrel. It's really no big deal for me, since I cut most of them down to 16.5" and permanently add a flash hider anyway. But I would rather do that here, not send all the shit back to RAA. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Tony, "we" don't have a big fucking problem at all...but someone sure dropped the ball. If they all showed up that way RAA better get their shit straight in a hurry. Man, your set to make a killing if you can produce enough brakes to retrofit the problem. How the hell did it go from selling 22" versions that were actually 23" to this????? Going to be a trip watching this one play out, I bet someones puckered up pretty tight about now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 The ones I saw at Gunsmoke in FL were all the same length with a threaded choke on them. I thought they looked a little short but how could that be? Somebody screwed up on a metric conversion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CGuns 3 Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Russian American Armory = A BUNCH OF #&(^$ IDIOTS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Yes, I measured them with a rod down the barrel, up against the closed bolt. I measured 12ea of them. They are all 17.2". This happened in the 80's with a batch of HK93's. They had 15.3" barrels on them. They had to go back to the distributer to have an extension permanently affixed to the barrel. It's really no big deal for me, since I cut most of them down to 16.5" and permanently add a flash hider anyway. But I would rather do that here, not send all the shit back to RAA. Hated to even ask, but this is so bad I had to. Sounds to me like the conversion was bad, or more likely they measured them with the chokes threaded on and forgot about them not being part of the bbl unless permanently affixed. I'm going to guess there will be some money to be made by someone (cough*Tony gets my vote *cough) permenantly affixing a polychoke to these (to keep the adjustable choke nature of the base model?). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 It sounds to me like RAA has a legal problem. Knowingly selling firearms in violation of established federal law........ Hmmmmmm.......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 I would guess that at least the next shipment will end up having the cylinder chokes blind pinned in place. But with such a thin barrel on a shotgun, I doubt blind pinning would work very well unless it is welded in place. That means setting up a TiG or possibly using a MiG and reworking all the guns at RAA. I am sure there are already a pile more of them already made like this that are inbound now, or already complete at the Russian plant. What surprises me is that they made it this far into the supply chain before anyone measured the damn thing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Integratedj 1 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Russian American Armory = A BUNCH OF #&(^$ IDIOTS. This does not make them Fucking idiots. It simply means that Russia fucked up on something they should have gotten right in the first place, and done the damn orders exactly as they were before when EAA imported them. Yeah, RAA should have measured them but fuck, this isn't the forst time that Izy has had US shipments to send out, they should know better by now. Get to work Tony, Crank out some FH's and make some cash. IJ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slag 12 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Seems like there is a major problem in transferring these... they are NFA weapons. May not be as simple as tacking on a FS. They are no longer "sporting" as defined for import, but rather NFA weapons... I bet there is going to be a recall on all of these... what a freakin bummer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 (edited) The ATF is going to have to figure out what the appropriate fix is going to be for this. I sure as hell am not going to ship unregistered SBS shotguns out my door unless I have an ATF letter approving this. I don't care who they are going to. Also, I have several that I already registered as 8" SBS guns. Kinda hard to send those back now. Edited February 11, 2006 by TonyRumore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Holy crap dude...sounds like a major hiccup. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kogashuko 17 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 (edited) Holy crap dude...sounds like a major hiccup. Funny part is no one would have ever noticed had he not been doing the evil conversion. I was going to SBS the thing anyway but DAMN I didnt want to have to form 4 it to pick it up. Probably after this there will be no more coming in. Edited February 11, 2006 by Koga Shuko Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Has anyone checked any of the .410's yet? I was also thinking there were what, 4 versions of the s12 comming in? Were all the s12's that we're talking about in the same base configuration? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Yeah, I didn't notice until the conversion was done and I went to cut the barrel to 16.5" to add a permanent flash hider on it. I ran the tape across it and it came out at 17" instead of 19". I am sure I looked like a deer in the headlights at that moment. I'm like, what the.......FUCK! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kogashuko 17 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 LOL, everyone is talking about the things being made in 2000 and 2001. Funny part is that the damn things were probably made by the hundreds of thousands and are just sitting in a warehouse somewhere. They might have been like "we sell these and no one will notice" not knowing the barrel length means things here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 I wonder if all the dealers know what they are selling off the racks? Yikes!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CGuns 3 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 What if we all wrote a letter to the ATF on Tony's behalf stating that we have done business with him and that he is certainly more than qualified to bring these shotguns into compliance. I want Tony to get the business on this, too. I still think RAAC is run by a bunch of idiots. I am also afraid to see what they come up with if these all have to get sent back to their office. HAS ANYONE INFORMED RAAC FIREARMS USA? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kogashuko 17 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 (edited) The other option is that they just grant them all amnesty and register tham as SBSes for us. I would think it is kind of their fault too. They are suppose to have a handle on something that is coming into the country 10,000 peices or more at a time. Edited February 11, 2006 by Koga Shuko Quote Link to post Share on other sites
frick 3 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 I have a feeling that since they are NOW NFA weapons in hand, that you are probably going to be ordered to return them to the distributor, or show that they are destroyed, probably by removing the barrel. Its no different than the AK's with the third hole that was riveted shut, they WERE a machinegun, and were contraband immediately. I dont even discount a visit from an agent to pick it up if you dont immediately comply with an order from the seller to return it as ordered. In fact, I had one of the M76 Yugo "Dragunov" type rifles, that were sold by SOG, since I owned it less than one year, there was no way I could have transferred it off the books as an FFL, so if it had been sold, they wanted to know to who, and if not, to return it, AT MY COST within 2 weeks I believe, for a refund. I squawked about having to pay shipping back to them, and they told me just to keep the rifle, and they would inform the BATFE that is was still in my posession, but unless I returned it, I wouldnt get the $1500 back after the 2 week time limit. Not to sound anti gun here, but I would see about returning them, after verifying that the one you have is not 18", or immediately permanently attach a choke or brake to it, so that if it is checked its in compliance, and not being a legal expert on SBR laws, I dont know if doing that yourself is legal, besides the blind pin, I believe an 1100 degree silver solder, or welding, are allowable methods of attachment, but due to the barrel thickess, the silver solder sounds like the only practical way, (Im a certified welder), and even with a TIG, burn through may be a problem. Either way, it sounds like an immediate reason to have your asshole examined by the BATFE, if you own one, and dont return it back to the seller. What a screw up on RAA's part, kind of makes me glad I didnt wait to buy mine, seeing that mine are newer than the ones being imported, as well as being legal. Whats really scary, is that not ONE person in the company, or customs, CHECKED the barrel lengths, it really makes you feel good about our national security system, doesnt it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AKOK 4 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 SON OF A BITCH.....I have one inbound to my ffl dealer right now from FBMG.....guess I need to contact FBMG about returning it before the transferr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
raygun 0 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 that's a messy little situation. Tony, have you been able to contact the distributors that you got the weapons from to see what they have to say? Will everything be legal and above board once you cut them down and file a form 2? or would they still be in limbo after that? Have you called your lawyer yet? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kogashuko 17 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 (edited) Remeber there are probably over 10,000 of these in the states now. This is goign to take them time to do anything. Also since it isnt a machine gun it doenst fall under the same things. The simple fix would be just to file a damn form 1. Not 100% within the law but the ATF would more likely let it slide till it is approved that way. I have considered doing a SBS on mine but dont know. Since silver sader and a tourch in a kit will run me close to $100 might as well form 1 it. Another large problem is that there is no way to really tell if they are all going to be like this or if they came in different batches like this. This is the kind of thing I wish no one had ever noticed. Edited February 11, 2006 by Koga Shuko Quote Link to post Share on other sites
woofer2425 0 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 This is pretty typical for Rooskie stuff. I have a Dnepr motorcycle and sidecar rig, made in Ukraine. Their attention to detail is lacking in their motorcycles as well. But they build a very strong tractor like machine. You just have to expect to fix some stuff right from the factory. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
expeditionx 1 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Has anyone else measured theirs from the bolt face closed to the opening of the barrel? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hk4me 0 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Just add a little threading, some silver solder and a kickazz flash hider. Top if off with some Dupli-Color high heat ceramic (matte black) engine enamel and..... Wham, Bamm, Thank You Ma'am ... 18+ inches Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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