Mass Slaughter in Our Public Schools:
The Terrorists' Chilling Plan
By Chuck Remsberge
www.policeone.com

Probably the last place you want to think of terrorists striking is your kids' school. But according to two trainers at an anti-terrorism conference on the East Coast, preparations for attacks on American schools that will bring rivers of blood and staggering body counts are well underway in Islamic terrorist camps.

* The intended attackers have bluntly warned us they're going to do it.
* They're already begun testing school-related targets here.
* They've given us a catastrophic model to train against, which we've largely ignored and they've learned more deadly tactics from.

"We don't know for sure what they will do. But by definition, a successful attack is one we are not ready for," declared one of the instructors, Lt. Col. Dave Grossman. Our schools fit that description to a "T"-as in Terrorism and Threat.

Grossman, the popular law enforcement motivational speaker, and Todd Rassa, a trainer with the SigArms Academy and an advisory board member for The Police Marksman magazine, shared a full day's agenda on the danger to U.S. schools at a recent three-day conference on terrorist issues, sponsored by the International Assn. of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors (IALEFI) in Atlantic City .

They reminded the audience that patrol officers, including perhaps some with their own children involved, will inevitably be the first responders when terrorists hit. And they documented chilling descriptions of the life-or-death challenges that likely will be faced.

In Part 1 of this three-part report on highlights of their presentations we focus on what's known about the threat to our schools to date, why terrorists have selected them as targets, and what tactics you're likely to be up against in responding to a sudden strike.

In Parts 2 and 3, we'll explore Grossman's and Rassa's recommendations for practical measures you and your agency can take now to get ready, including some defensive actions that don't require any budget allocations.
Why schools? Two reasons:

1. Our values. "The most sacred thing to us is our children, our babies," Rassa said. Killing hundreds of them at a time would significantly "boost Islamic morale and lower that of the enemy" (us). In Grossman's words, terrorists see this effort as "an attempt to defile our nation" by leaving it "stunned to its soul."

2. Our lack of preparation. Police agencies "aren't used to this," Rassa said. "We deal with acts of a criminal nature. This is an act of war," but because of our laws "we can't depend on the military to help us," at least at the outset.

Indeed, Grossman claimed, "the U.S. in the one nation in the world where the military is not the first line of defense against domestic terrorist attacks. By law, you the police officer are our Delta Force. It is your job to go in, while in most other nations cops will wait for the military to come save their kids."

School personnel, Rassa said, "are not even close" to being either mentally or physically prepared. "Most don't even have response plans for handling a single active shooter. Their world is taught to nurture and care for people. They don't want to deal with this."

The American public, "sticking their heads in the sand, can't be mentally prepared," he said. "They're going to freak when it happens," their stubborn denial making the crisis "all the more shocking."

Noting that "sheep have two speeds: 'grazing' and 'stampede,'" Grossman predicted that "not a parent in the nation will send their kids to school the next day"-perhaps for many days-after a large-scale terrorist massacre. If day-care centers-"also on the terrorists' list"-are hit as well, "parents will drop out of the work force" en masse to protect their children and "our economy will be devastated."

How we know they're coming.

Al-Qaeda has publicly asserted the "right" to kill 2,000,000 American children, Rassa explained, and has warned that "operations are in stages of preparation" now. He played vivid videotapes confiscated in Afghanistan, showing Al-Qaeda terrorists practicing the takeover of a school. The trainees issue commands in English, rehearse separating youngsters into manageable groups and meeting any resistance with violence. Some "hostages" are taken to the rooftop, dangled over the edge, then "shot."

"Any place that has given [Islamic terrorists] trouble, they've come after the kids," Grossman said. Muslim religious literature, according to Rassa, states clearly that the killing of children not only is "permitted" in Islam but is "approved" by Mohammad, so long as the perpetrators "are striving for the general good" as interpreted by that religion.

He cited instances in Indonesia where girls on their way to school have been beheaded and in other countries where children have been shot, mutilated, raped or burned alive.

In this country this year ['06], Rassa said, there have been several school bus-related incidents involving Middle Eastern males that raise suspicion of terrorist activity. These include the surprise boarding of a school bus in Florida by two men in trench coats, who may have been on a canvassing mission, and the attempt in New York State by an Arab male to obtain a job as a school bus driver using fraudulent Social Security documents. The latter gave an address in Detroit, home to a large colony of fundamentalist Muslims.

Rassa claimed that floor plans for half a dozen schools in Virginia, Texas and New Jersey have been recovered from terrorist hands in Iraq.

The terrorists' tactical model.

A "dress rehearsal for what terrorists plan to do to us" has already taken place, Rassa and Grossman agreed. That was the brutal take down in 2004 of a school that served children from 6 to 17 years old in Baseline, Russia.

Some 100 terrorists were involved, nearly half of whom were discreetly embedded in the large crowd of parents, staff and kids who showed up for the first day of school; the rest arrived for the surprise attack in SUVs, troop carriers and big sedans. Across a three-day siege, 700 people were wounded and 338 killed, including 172 youngsters.
If a similar assault were launched against a school in your jurisdiction, how would you and your agency respond?

Consider this modest sampling of challenges that were deliberately planned or arose from the ensuing chaos at Beslan, as outlined by Rassa:

* The school was chosen because it was one of the taller buildings in the area and had a very complicated floor plan, making a rapid and effective counter-assault by responders extremely difficult. Offender weaponry included AK-47s, sniper rifles, RPGs and explosives, with everything the terrorists needed carried in on their backs. RPGs were fired at a responding military helicopter and at troops.

* More than 1,000 men, women and children, including babies, were penned in an unventilated gym and a cafeteria. As the days passed without food or water and inside temperatures rose to 115 degrees, survivors were eating flowers they'd brought for teachers and fighting for urine to drink out of their shoes in desperation. Women and some children were repeatedly and continuously raped.

* Adult males and larger male students were used as "forced labor" to help fortify the building, then shot to death. Bodies were thrown out of an upper-story window, down onto a courtyard. Attempts at negotiation by responders were used by the terrorists strictly as an opportunity to buy time to solidify their fortifications.

* Surviving hostages were surrounded by armed guards standing on deadman switches, wired to explosives. All entrances to the building as well as stairwells and some interior doorways were booby-trapped. Youngsters were forced to sit on window sills to serve as shields for snipers. "Black widows" (potential suicide bombers) were rigged so their bomb belts could be detonated by remote control when leaders considered the timing was right. The terrorists stayed cranked up on some type of amphetamine to keep awake.

* Armed, outraged parents and other civilians, some of them drunk, showed up and started "rolling gunfights" outside in a futile effort to defeat the takeover. The crowd identified one embedded terrorist and "literally ripped him apart." The media was everywhere, unrestrained. So many people were milling around that responders often could not establish a clear field of fire.

* When troops finally stormed the school in a counter-assault on the third day, "pure pandemonium" reigned. Soldiers and the kids they were trying to rescue were gunned down mercilessly. Explosions touched off inside started multiple fires.

* Responders who made it inside had to jump over trip wires as they "ran" up stairs under fire from above. By then terrorists were holding hostages in virtually every room. Rescue teams were subjected to continual ambushes. Gunfights occurred predominately within a 6-ft. range, with some responders having to fight for their lives in places so cramped they couldn't get off their hands and knees.

* Some children successfully rescued from the building were so crazed by thirst that they ran to an outdoor spigot and were killed by a grenade as they filled their hands with water.

* Terrorists who escaped during the melee ran to homes of embedded sympathizers who hid them successfully and were not immediately suspected because they were considered "non-strangers" in the community. Some townspeople who volunteered to help as stretcher bearers for the injured were, in fact, embedded terrorists.

* During the siege "at least four people or agencies claimed to be in charge. Actually, no one was in charge and no one wanted to be."

"Osama bin Laden has promised that what has happened in Russia will happen to us many times over," Grossman warned. "And Osama tries very hard never to lie to us."

What's likely here.

Probably not so many terrorists involved at a single location. Moving that big a contingent into place would likely attract too much attention and thwart the attack.

Grossman describes a more likely possibility, in his opinion:

Terrorist cells of four operatives each will strike simultaneously at four different schools. They'll probably pick middle schools with no police officers on site, where the girls are "old enough to rape" but students are not big enough to fight back effectively.
The targets will probably be in states "with no concealed-carry laws and no hunting culture" and in communities where "police do not have rifles."

Rural areas may be favored, where 30 minutes or more could be required for responders to arrive in force.

The attackers will "mow down every kid and teacher they see" as they move in to seize the school. They'll plant bombs throughout the buildings, and "rape, murder and throw out bodies like they did in Russia."

Emergency vehicles responding and children fleeing will be blown up by car bombs in the parking lot.

In all, 100 to 300 children could be slaughtered in a first strike.

Terrorists capable of this are already embedded in communities "all over America," Grossman and Rassa agreed. More will probably gain entry surreptitiously from Mexico, making southern California potentially a prime target.
No time for despair.

It's a grim picture, for certain. "But if we think there's nothing we can do to prepare, that is a defeatist mentality," Rassa said. "We ought to be trying. If we're not trying, we're failing. We may as well give up our guns and surrender now.

"I can't think of a better thing to train up for than protecting our kids. If we try but fall short, look at how much else we'll still be able to handle than we can now.

"What made most of us do active-shooter training? The killings at Columbine. Are we going to wait for something far worse than that before we do the most that we can to stop the terrorists who are coming for our schools?"

If they think we fought back so far, they can be sure that they haven't seen anything yet if they directly attack our children. They might send their own children to town with a bomb around their waist, but if they think we take our own children so lightly there will be new rivers in the deserts, of blood. And I would stuff what was left of their bodies in a pig skin body bag and pack their mouth with sausage. By their own beliefs, this would keep them from paridise and their virgins.
meet

the rivers of blood wont just be over there. you will see a massive attack on the muslim population here, WAY worse than after 9/11. most of those stories were kept quiet, so that "the people" didnt go withthe flow upon hearing of the country-wide attacks on the muslim community. they think that week was bad? watch what happens when they pull this. it should be quite interesting.

schools are possible targets, sure, but so are so many other locations.

and euhm, rape in a four man team? sure, in Beslan it wasn't a problem, they had 99 other terrorists and a shitload of boobytraps covering their ass. but in a 4 man team in an american school starting to rape people? not very likely...

Somewhere Sun Tzu is laughing his ass off... at US.

Bullshit 1 person rape anyone open your eyes it happens daily! Fucking dune coons pull some of that shit and the US will come undone There will people taking shit out everywhere I for one will be involved. Crazy fucking Rednecks are the most dangerous people on earth and once you fire us up its on! I am already mad that they would threaten me with cowardly bullshit like that. If the muslum faith states that it ok to kill children then fuck them all and do not give fuck if If I piss anyone off its my right I am American!

Great post! If this kind of $&it is happening in Russia why the hell hasn't been all over the media. I see it happening. I also see it being many more than Four teams. I bet it would be the vast majority of all sleepers in place, simultaniosly. Theyd have to know the window of opportunity would be small and the authors number of 300 seams rather low foran attack of this nature carried out many times over atthe same time. If it ever happens the Dems will use it to throw the 2nd out the wiondow and blame the weapons for the actions of the terorrists rather than them being blind.

The smart thing to do is train and Arm teachers and able bodied adult school emploies to include crossing guard and bus drivers . Aquire a pet pigs at all rural schools. Place undercover agents across the nation and prepare to give them hell. Inform and prepare the populace to the threat the threat as real. The truth is Osama is at large and the proof is in the pudding the want to hurt us and we live in denial..

Hello
One thing the Jihadists have yet to realize, is that we, as Americans, do not get "terrorized". That is the response of their quasi-literate, impotent countrymen.
We get PISSED!!! And when we get pissed, we have the means, and the will, to be as evil and vindictive as any people on earth.

I've said since 9/11, "better to deport the innocent, than watch our innocents murdered". Quite simply, I don't care if it's a fucking barge with a tugboat behind it heading to the middle east, if they're at the muzzle of my gun they will deport by whatever means available or die resisting.
No fucking "embedded terrorists" if there are no similar people around for them to "embed" with.

One more scene in the "terrorist theater" in America and it will be time to begin the purge, in my opinion.
Hate to sound callous, but maybe it will take something as cruel and unthinkable as such an attack to wake some of these head-in-the-sand utopians up from their comas.

Might not be PC, but by God, to the best of my knowledge, we did not declare war on THEM as a people....They put US under seige, and any response to that is purely a defensive measure at that point.

Personally, I wouldn't miss the smelly third-worlders one bit.

With the utmost sincerity and respect,
guido2 in Houston

[quote name='guido2' date='Mar 23 2007, 02:34 PM' post='132763']
Hello
One thing the Jihadists have yet to realize, is that we, as Americans, do not get "terrorized". That is the response of their quasi-literate, impotent countrymen.
We get PISSED!!! And when we get pissed, we have the means, and the will, to be as evil and vindictive as any people on earth.

I've said since 9/11, "better to deport the innocent, than watch our innocents murdered". Quite simply, I don't care if it's a fucking barge with a tugboat behind it heading to the middle east, if they're at the muzzle of my gun they will deport by whatever means available or die resisting.
No fucking "embedded terrorists" if there are no similar people around for them to "embed" with.

One more scene in the "terrorist theater" in America and it will be time to begin the purge, in my opinion.
Hate to sound callous, but maybe it will take something as cruel and unthinkable as such an attack to wake some of these head-in-the-sand utopians up from their comas.

Might not be PC, but by God, to the best of my knowledge, we did not declare war on THEM as a people....They put US under seige, and any response to that is purely a defensive measure at that point.

Personally, I wouldn't miss the smelly third-worlders one bit.

With the utmost sincerity and respect,
guido2 in Houston
[/quoteIt did happen I believe a few years ago in Russia I did not know the details or what is bullshit to the story or what is truth

I have a strange feeling if or when this happens (its really more like when), the firearms that are in private hands will finally, legally, and justifiably, be used to stop the bullshit. any LEO that wants to try to stop the people like me that will fight back, well, that will be thier mistake, not mine. I am not constitutionally protected by the police, and as far as I am concerned, because of that, I am constitutionally allowed by law of the land to protect myself, my friends, my family, and my neighbors. this is the heart of the right to bear arms, and when it comes time, anyone that tries to stop the people that would take up arms to defend each other will be on the pile with the dead terrorists. they wont be on the pile of my dead fellow countrymen, thats for sure.

Sweet music...

well, the fact remains I know from the last incident that the LEOs here will NOT in fact get in our way. they are americans, if not more patriotic than us. I should clarify this, I guess, from my last post.

whats the payoff if this happens? 100 good muslims for each innocent american? or should it be 1000?

piss thier own kind off at them enough, and it will end this bullshit fucking war that none of us incited or asked for.

I say bring it on, and LETS ROLL

these people have no idea, apparantly, who they are dealing with.

me personally? ill feed you your fucking heart if you beat a woman in front of her children. what do you think i will personally do if you kill children? ill gut your own kind on tv, and they will be the lucky ones.

this shit is NO JOKE. we are at war, and people need to wake the fuck up and get it straight what will need to be done when the time comes.

I say force THEM to police their ten percent. god will sort it all out eventually, anyway. why should we fear any man? we are the free men. god told us all THE SAME THING. they are no different than us, and if they think they are, they are in for a rude awakening. and I am NOT alone on this. watch what happens. you may possibly see the devil on earth if it comes to it, and that is really the most unfortunate part of all of this. it is totally unneccesary.

Its already happening, we got to start arming accordingly
its up to honest americnas LEO included to put their foot down and finally use the 2nd as it was intended for what it was intended against out worst enemy in our own backyards..... It would be sweet to see such a plot fail, in a river of jihadists blood, before they ever get at chance to strike.. fortunatly in Florida they better keep a low profile cuz crazy redneck abound

I really need to go and take some pictures of some of the people up where I am. I live in the twilight zone. Just because I am in new york, dont mean that we dont have old ways here still. I have to get around to it. the problem is the people and places I would show you all wouldnt let me show them to you. Ill have to find a way to sneak a few pictures in there. you wont believe your eyes. I am going to damn sure photograph the "evil" ak47s and the ten deer hanging in the shed next year.....I regret not taking the photographs of that and blacking out people's faces. stupid stupid stupid.

the southern redneck is far nicer than the northern ones, from my experience. FAR nicer.

I agree with 100% of my Pure American Blood.

This happens, and all Hell will break loose upon the Muslim community.

No offense to all the Rednecks here, Southern or Northern, but I'm 75% German, and if anyone knows how to deal with people, it's the Germans.






"Woe be to the man who brings malice and harm to my doorstep...."

I've seen some video from the Russian school hostage situation. It DID happen and only parts of the buildings are left standing, including a large common room with holes for a roof , windows, and doors.

I too would probably cooperate in a rush on a school in a similar situation as the hostages are basically already dead, and these aren't the kind of hostage takers who spare victims. Might as well take out as many as I can before going down.

Seriously, what's more American than going out in a "Blaze of Glory" in a heroic struggle to save others?

well, im sure you all cant tell, but I am 1/4 nazi "austrian master race".

blood is blood. you are still an american. you are either with us or against us.

LOL, I'm half Bavarian and half Berliner and 100% American. My family immigrated here in the 60s. I'm buying a gun every other month these days and lots of ammo to boot. I'm also raising my sons(11 & 15) right, they both own their own AKs(X39 Saigas of course) and have a couple pistols each, all of which they EARNED by working around the house. And my boy's can shoot. It's a good feeling to know that my sons can defend themselves and their Mom if I'm not around.

Terrorism is all about putting fear in your enemies and making there way of life a living hell of uncertainty. I for one hope they never carry out these plans, but without doing anything but suggesting such a thing. They have filled a big part the intended terrorism.

totally & utterly missed the point there Stratton.

do you want to start raping kids when you've got only 3 buddies to cover an entire school building, while there could be security guards, cops or angry parents (Beslan-style or alternatively SHTF-ready militia or redneck) moving in on you?

what is going to be more shocking to the populace? you getting your head blown off while trying to grab some teenage pussy or you succesfully holding the school building as long as you can and taking down as many people as possible (which isn't exactly an easy thing to do with your trousers around your ancles)?


euhm, it was. over all newspapers & reported during the news for like 5 days straight?


arm teachers? funny, since most will probably want to keep the school weapons free.

as for undercovers? yeah, good thinking, the USA's deficit isn't nearly big enough as is!


Beirut? Black Hawk Down? ring any bells?

you got pretty terrorised back then, and by a bunch of militia killing soldiers, not civilians.

don't worry, we belgians did the same in Rwanda.

polititians chickened out & pulled the troops out.


only exploited them & bled them dry.
only led into wars and helping them before cutting them loose and betraying them.
only gave away some of their land to a people that had no bound to it (except a spiritual bound)
only gave them WMDs only to 20 years later invade them for having WMDs.
only kept using the name of their religion for what was actually but a splinter group using religion to falsely legitimise their actions.
etc

yep, the USA is totally blameless in this...

oh, don't worry, a lot of EU countries did a lot of the same (so we don't escape the blame game). but high trees catch a lot of wind, guido2. and the USA is one bloody high tree...


well, remember Beslan? the terrorists used that very reaction to make their attack even more succesful. yes, i agree. trained locals should help the LEO's, but not as an undisciplined swarm of rambo-wannabe morons running around like headless chickens...


you cant scare them into stopping by murdering 1000 for each dead american... they are demographically spread out over the globe and come in big numbers. the more you kill randomly, the more new volunteers are going to sign up to be a terrorist. this is not an unified Japan that you can bomb into surrender. this is an entirely new type of enemy.



also, what's up with this german-blood nazi muffin nonsense? jezus guys, it's not the blood that flows through your veins that makes you a coldblooded killer or a motherfucking hero. wake the fuck up. when your blood is spilled, it's just as red as the next guy.

I'd like to see you prove how the US did any of those things you stupid koolaid drinking dumbfuck.

QUOTE(guido2 @ Mar 23 2007, 09:34 PM)
One thing the Jihadists have yet to realize, is that we, as Americans, do not get "terrorized". That is the response of their quasi-literate, impotent countrymen.
We get PISSED!!! And when we get pissed, we have the means, and the will, to be as evil and vindictive as any people on earth.

SuA wrote:
"Beirut? Black Hawk Down? ring any bells?

you got pretty terrorised back then, and by a bunch of militia killing soldiers, not civilians.

don't worry, we belgians did the same in Rwanda.

polititians chickened out & pulled the troops out."


Guido Writes:
SuA, getting outgunned in a firefight is not getting terrorized, it is getting outgunned (and out manned) in a firefight. To me, being terrorized is being too scared to fight back. Being too NATO'd to fight back doesn't count for anything, that's just shitty political decisions.



QUOTE(guido2 @ Mar 23 2007, 09:34 PM)
Might not be PC, but by God, to the best of my knowledge, we did not declare war on THEM as a people....They put US under seige, and any response to that is purely a defensive measure at that point.

SuA wrote:
"only exploited them & bled them dry.
only led into wars and helping them before cutting them loose and betraying them.
only gave away some of their land to a people that had no bound to it (except a spiritual bound)
only gave them WMDs only to 20 years later invade them for having WMDs.
only kept using the name of their religion for what was actually but a splinter group using religion to falsely legitimise their actions.
etc

yep, the USA is totally blameless in this...

oh, don't worry, a lot of EU countries did a lot of the same (so we don't escape the blame game). but high trees catch a lot of wind, guido2. and the USA is one bloody high tree..."

Guido writes:
Well, first of all, there is a lot of space between "blameless" and "declaring war". I never said the US was blameless, I stated that "to the best of my knowledge, we had not declared war on them, rather, they have declared it on us".
Second of all, nobody has "bled them dry" like their own leaders. That's not our fault, although it is our "fault" that we are attempting (with limited success) to educate them about a democracy and the benefits for them. That's a lot more that their sorry leaders have ever done for them (the Iraqi's, anyway).

I'm not going to try and defend actions of the US government over the last few decades, I'm just saying that nothing I or my government has done justifies the brutalizing or murder of our children, or of us as adults, for that matter. If you are suggesting that we should lay down and succumb to the "inevitable" then with all due respect Sir, I say you are sorely mistaken.

I think that in the big picture scenario, there have been plenty of petro-dollars sent to the middle east during the last couple of decades...If those dollars were managed with the betterment of the general populace in mind, rather than the betterment of a few royal assholes, then their predicament would be such that we likely would not be having this discussion.
Fact is, those petro-dollars are only going to last as long as the oil, and the end is near. What are they going to do when they can't afford bullets and C-4 for their suicide bombers? Their own leadership is the place they need to be searching for answers, it doesn't lie with us.

Respectfully posted,
Guido2 in Houston

1) oil. don't need to say more.
2) Israel. we 'gave' them the country and we supplied the weapons they'd use to acquire it.
3) plenty of sources, but here is The Independent

i quote:



plenty of other sources.

i'd ask you to read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_iraq_war

granted, wiki is a bad source, but check out the sourcelinks. more than the above quoted stuff, the US donated choppers to spray chemical agents, CIA intelligence used to guide mustard gas attacks, provided Sarin gas, etc

let me also quote this:



and
4) americans keep refering to 'muslims' or the 'islam' as the enemy. hello, a religion isn't your enemy. extremist fucktards are.

PS: we don't have koolaid overhere, "dumbfuck".

------------------------------


euhm, and did you fight back guido? no, the troops were pulled out.

ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation[ter-uh-riz-uhm]
–noun
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

i think it's clear both my examples fit perfectly.


of course, their own 'leadership' is not blameless. but take Saudi Arabia. USA's buddy, but also probably the main provider of funding to terrorists.

the leaders are simply criminals kept in power with the help of the west. due to this, the normal people hate us.

as for the declaring war thing. a terrorist organisation did, not the muslims... know the difference.

1) Sorry but "oil, don't need to say more" doesn't fly. That is sheer idiocy. Are we bleeding the Chinese dry by buying goods from them too? Idiot.

2) Well it was the entire world that gave that chunk of dirt to the Israelis but it was they on their own that made it the country that it is today. They do put your country to shame so I suppose your envy is somewhat understandable. The "Palestinians" have been given numerous opportunities to build a state of their own but they are such a self-loathing people that they can't even get along with each other and have no regard for life, not even the lives of their children. Stop making the Jews a scapegoat for a sick society.

3) Your sources list companies that sold equipment to the Iraqis with some vague references to what they might have been used on but there is not a single weapon that the US supposedly gave or sold to the Iraqis. 116 light helicopters is it. You have provided not even a shred of evidence of the US arming Saddam with WMDs.

4) Americans have been careful to distinguish between Radical Islam and those that quietly practice their religion without feeling the need to kill US infidels. What is your goal in seeking to blur that distinction by putting words in our mouths?

Fuck you and your Hate-America bullshit propaganda.

....and laughing hard!

Well most of my inlaws are in the E. Tennessee and N. Ga. mountains. These folks will help most anyone out if they judge you to be of like(not necesseraly good) character.....But if you fuck with them or theirs there will be no finding your body in the Cohutta Wilderness. If you seem out of place you best move on down the road quickly.

there is a difference between buying goods at a normal price & buying concessions from a corrupt government. i'm not arguing the legality of it all, but the impact on the local populace.

let me just point you to the Nigerian oil troubles & i bet even you can draw the parallel...


but the entire world didn't give them weapons. only the west.

as for putting my own country to shame? how exactly?

and no, jews aren't a scapegoat, but simply a factor in the equation. if you say Israel has nothing to do with terrorism, you're just plain stupid.


yeah, well, i suppose weapons grade pathogenic (meaning disease producing), toxigenic (meaning poisonous) and other biological research materials doesn't mean much?

i'm sure weapons grade Anthrax isn't a WMD, then.

how about you try to read what i write, instead of reading what you want to read and then dismissing it because it comes from some liberal pussy eurotrash?


euhm, this very thing has come up on this very forum before, have you already forgotten? everyone simply says 'muslims', 'moslems' or 'arabs'. those arent your enemies...


how funny that you still havent figured out that i don't hate america...

SuA:
I'm not sure what your goals are here, but I'm always in favor of an honest and up-front exchange of ideas. I can't help but feel you get a thrill out of inciting negative discussion, I'm not certain that's relevant.

My point was, and is, I don't give a shit what you or a bunch of stinking Jihadists (not "Muslims") feel about being disrespected, or disgraced, or sodomized by a pork sausage, for that matter, by the "Western Government". There is no way that justifies them attacking our innocent populace, or even our uniformed military, for that matter. If their government (if they actually have one) has a difference with our government, then so be it. If their government feels they have irreconcileable differences, so be it, as long as the NATO pussies and the labia in the US media stay out of the way, we'll roll in and crush their asses.

Which is exactly what we would have done in Somalia or Beirut, had it been an actual declared war. I think eventually folks will come to their senses that policing the illiterate third-worlders with their corrupt governments is more than we, and especially NATO, can effectively deal with.

My point, Sir, is that we have been declared to be under seige by the Jihadists. That is not my decision, or even my governments decision. That is the "ruling" religious leadership of a pathetic, demonic, illiterate third-world country deciding that they are justified in waging war on me and my family.

I actually respect their right to be any and all of the adjectives listed above. That's not my concern. When they threaten me, and attempt to "terrorize" me, as in "terror-struck", or whatever, I respectfully submit that they will see a different reaction in many Americans than what they anticipate. And, apparently, different than what you envision, since you see cause to debate these assertions.

I'm not trying to change your mind, and you obviously are doing nothing to change anybodies mind here on this forum, so why not let differences be differences?

Respectfully posed (no, really!)

Guido2 in Houston

1) More idiocy from an idiot. We are not responsible for their government's level of corruption anymore than they are responsible for ours. That is their problem to work out internally. What are we supposed to do? Invade them? Boycott them? Maybe set up an oil for food program in the name of feeding the children, so the UN can get their pound of flesh? I think it's funny how people like you talk about respecting everyone's sovereignty out one side of your neck while blaming US for everyone's internal problems out the other.

2) I fully understand that Israel is part of the deal but I'm not going to give credibility to a movement premised upon unreasonable hatred. I do think it's funny that you want to illuminate the symbolic role Israel plays in this yet want to totally dismiss the huge role Islam plays in it. Wow! The Eurotrash anti-semitic Israel-envy that clearly exists is a result of Israel becoming an industrial/technological powerhouse while your civilization is whittled away.

3) Weapons-grade anthrax you say? When was Saddam EVER caught with or using anthrax as a WMD? What you are talking about is our unthinking academics providing anthrax samples between two universities are part of some half-baked intellectual exchange. A stupid idea yes but nothing ever came of it. Hello???? Now unless you can come up with some actual WMDs(WEAPONS being the keyword) you should seriously consider shutting your ignorant mouth(so to speak). I fully concede that we gave Saddam intel on Iranian troop movements and I don't think there are any regrets over that.

4) Dopes like you who blame America first, hate America first. Your repeated lies about this country prove that. You saying you don't hate America is just another lie. You have zero credibility.

my point is that if others get to spew their views, i'm allowed to argue that i'm not necessarily in agreement. i mostly try to back my agruments with examples and sources, something the other 'side' certainly doesnt. so i don't quite see why i'm always the only one catching the flak...

i take offense at things like misnommers or acting like you're the gods gift to peace and wisdom. we're all in the shit & we've all done bad things, so quit acting like you're more holy then Jesus H Chirst, alrighty?
(note that the 'you' doesnt stand for 'you' as in guido, if you catch my drift)


i'm not arguing that they're right to kill anyone. i'm just saying it's damn easy for them to mobilise people through some manipulation.

and also that things like the invasion of Iraq only plays into their cards. government might have been shit under Saddam, but it wasn't a terrorist hellhole, and certainly not a jihadist one. Saddam feared religious elements under his citizens because he knew it could threathen his power, so he kept them on under his thumb.


country? what country?


if people tell you things you feel is false, or at least viewed in the wrong light, would you not attempt to at least bring to their attention that that isn't necessarily true or that it is worth changing your point of view to get a better perspective of things? i indeed do not strive to change people's opinions, but simply want to show that there are different ways to view things. with some luck, i will gain a few insights from you guys as well.

and if you dislike the 'atmosphere' created by these arguments, you might ask the namecallers to pipe down. flaming never helped anything...

-----------

Wow Groaner, you never cease to amaze me with how much skill you ignore the questions asked or dodge the obvious meaning of statements. were you born with the skill to utterly fail at reading comprehension, or did you have to go to school for that?


you know, you can keep throwing names and insult me, but it won't make your rhetoric any more believable.


if you had bothered to read the second line of my comment on that point, you could've saved yourself from typing that out...


anti-semitic? envy? sjeezes, of what? no man in his right mind would envy Israel...

as for supposed bad relations, Israel is one of the chief buyers of Belgian products... not exactly an enemy, i'd say.


"these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the UN inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program."

yeah, you're right... biological warfare has nothing to do with weapons.


i'll be the one to judge if i'm lying or not. i'm in the best position to know, thank you very much.

you'll never believe me, but i kinda like the USA, that is why what pains me more than anything is to see the loss of potential.

Rhetoric? I was was disposing of your anti-American/anti-Capitalist rhetoric genius. You can't even keep track of the conversation let alone back up your inane statements about my country.

I did read your second statement I was responding to your duplicitous moral judgments of US not your ridiculous proclamation of legality. I asked you what your solution to the "local impact" of local corruption in the oil trade was and you have nothing to say. Inspite of this fact you sit here and blame US for the actions and inaction of others.

When did I say Israel and Belgium were enemies? I was speaking of the anti-semiticism of European people.

Anti-semiticism Europe Google search

Like I said American academia is naive and stupid when it comes to trusting foreigners in the name of intelletual freedom. The US government bureaucracy allowed that to happen but that door was closed shortly after. In any case, this OBVIOUSLY does NOT constitute the US "providing WMDs". You trying to spin that incident into such proves that you are a lying piece of shit. You aren't fit to judge US.

once again: i'm not anti-american, nor anti-capitalist. as for that third sentences, same back @ yah...


if i had all the answers, i wouldnt be sitting here, would i? i recognise my shortcomings... business as usual is however not the way to go about it, as clearly illustrated by current events.


which is entirely irrelevant to the discussion.


this isnt the only 'incident' & you know it...

So you have absolutely nothing substantive to say to bolster your false assertions and never did. Got it. At least you finally know your role... surrender monkey.

Gentlemen! Please! There are strong and also some not-so-strong points on both sides! I and my family lived in Europe for 13 years -- my youngest daughter even attended 'gymnasium' in Germany (the old West Germany). What we are supposed to be discussing is the latest terrorist threat which is centering on our children.

Terrorist threats are something with which my family is familiar. Remember the old Red Army Faction? The Bader Meinhof gang? The Year of the Hot Autumn (die Heisse Herbst)? No large scale attacks but fire bombs placed under the driver's seat of our cars, bombs cleverly hidden in the fire extinguishers in our apartment house stairwells... Why did they not more directly attack our housing areas where our families were? Certainly, it would have gotten our attention but they also knew how we treasure our children even while criticizing how they dress or act. And they also realized that such an act would mobilize us in an anger born of rage.

Americans have traditionally not had much stomach for prolonged or costly conflict... unless we have first been attacked in a manner to anger us, to bring the national blood to a boil because of the treachery of such a perfidious action. Once we reach that point, there is no negotiating with us.

Remember when the Iranians seized the US embassy in Tehran and captured all the staff, both diplomatic and US marine guards? I was stationed at EUSAREUR HQ in Heidelberg at the time, a lowly E-5 clerk. Even the low-ranking clerks were demanding of their commanders that they press DOD to be allowed to move in. Our sections German translator became very quiet and pow profile for days. I asked her what was wrong. She replied that the Germans had seen Americans this angry only four times in history. The first was 1898 when the battleship Maine blew up in Havanna harbor. We became frenzied and, although a militarily pathetic 3rd-rate power, we destroyed one of the largest empires the world had ever seen -- the Spanish empire.

The econd time was 1914 when they (the Germans) made the mistake of sinking the Lusitania. Again, we became angry and entered WWI on the side of the British and French and ensured the ending of the Kaiser's empire.

The third time was Dec. 7, 1941. Japan made the mistake of attacking our naval base at Pearl Harbor without first delivering their declaration of war. For that treacherous action we destroyed the Japanese empire, an empire that had never been defeated in war in 4,000 years! And all the while never entertaining even the thought of a negotiated peace. And, yes, during that same time, we also defeated the German Third Reich even though early on Hitler had put out peace feelers to us through the offices of the Swiss embassy. We also disregarded a separate peace feeler from Admiral Doenitz' government which would have kept Soviet forces out of Prussia (East Germany) and would have given all of Germany to the US, the Brits and the French. Because we got 'mad as hell'.

The Tehran embassy affair, according to our interpreter, was the fourth time we had gotten this angry. What would we destroy now?

As it turned out, we destroyed nothing. And achieved about as much. We did send some very brave people in on an ill-starred rescue attempt. It was an attempt that failed not because of the courage of the Marines and airmen involved but because some unnamed person (whose identity was never determined) sent down an order to remove the sand/dust filters from the intakes of the helicopters which were to fly for long distances over sandy/dusty terrain, thus guarateeing that the mission would fail.

Want to see us get enraged in the national sense for a fifth time? Go ahead. Attack our children. There would be a tremendous backlash against anyone who even _looked_ like the relatively anonymous attackers. As in WW2, when if you looked asiatic or spoke German or spoke English with a German accent you were immediately considered suspect, in the time of berserker frenzy there would undoubtedly be excess. No, it wouldn't be right but it would be fact.

Let us pray that the al-Qaeda command structure decides against attacking our children. But let us also be prepared to defend our children and, if they are attacked, brutalized, raped and murdered as has been forseen in the transcript at the beginning of this thread, then let us become as "Azri'al", the Muslim Angel of Death as we avenge their deaths.

Meanwhile, let's kind of cool our tempers among ourselves. I've been to Belgium. SuA, you've got a pretty country. Even enjoyed Brussels, especially the boat ride along the canal. And the best ale in the world (personal opinion) is "Martin's Pale Ale" that I used to drink in a pub near the train station in Antwerpen -- of course, the "Julilaum" beer in St. Nicklaus is pretty good, too!

have the other two parts to the initial article posting been made availible yet?

Hello, Aethelbert
Good post, that's pretty much what I was attempting to get across.
Nothing to debate here about right or wrong, basically I don't care what our government did or didn't do, or what they are perceived to have done by whomever.....Fuck with our families, we will reclaim our country by whatever means are necessary.
We've got plenty of Mexicans to run the convenience stores.

"Better to deport the innocent, that to watch our innocents murdered".....

Respectfully posted,
Guido2 in Houston

I agree with you but I think I would have worded it a little differently.

I've been called a redneck many times. I am loyal to a fault. And if you mess with me, I'm more likely to fuck your world up. I want you to live and remember me, every day.

try being a country person and dealing with NYC people your whole life that move your posted signs 15 yards at a time, as an example. i hear ya.


have the next two installments to this lecture been posted anywhere?

Nothing to debate here about right or wrong, basically I don't care what our government did or didn't do, or what they are perceived to have done by whomever.....Fuck with our families, we will reclaim our country by whatever means are necessary.
We've got plenty of Mexicans to run the convenience stores.

"Better to deport the innocent, that to watch our innocents murdered".....

Respectfully posted,
Guido2 in Houston
[/quote]


Actually, Guido2, you should care about what our government did or didn't do, because YOU and I are responsible for it. This is one of the reasons I have been a Libertarian for so long. The government of this country is wayyyyyy out of control, and is taking the citizens into the fire with it. I would fight to the death for my land and my people, but I would never fight a single second for my government, which is what is happening now. Why don't you care that our masters in Washington have orchestrated a great deal of the events that are leading up to REAL ID, new passports with RFID chips, and a fence on the border that will be far more effective at keeping Americans IN then it will ever be at keeping foreign nationals OUT. This new report is most likely government scare tactic TERRORIST BULLSHIT of the highest order, the same and no different than any video Bin Ladin ever put out. All the Pentagon does is echo the threats he makes, louder and louder, until we all panic and go rushing to the men with badges, "save us! Save Us!" How can you see all this and think, "Yeah, these politicians are doing a GREAT FUCKING JOB! Lets keep going!" Does anyone even remember the ONE REASON Bin Ladin gave for his war on the U.S.A.? He said in '92 (IIRC) that he would dissolve all al Qaeda action against the U.S.A. as soon as the last US troop left Saudi Arabian Holy Soil. That's it. He isn't asking that we all convert to Islam. He does not need us to all die. He wants US GOVERNMENT FORCES out of Saudi Arabia. And to be honest, if that really would end the war between the United States and al Qaeda, I think we should take it.

I know exactly who here is going to give me shit for this, but WE ARE NOT THE POLICEMEN OF THE WORLD! Yeah yeah yeah, "We were attacked!" Firstly, I am not convinced that 9/11 happened just like FOX and CNN said it did , and everyone here is smart enough to have some ideas of their own about why the events of 9/11 have so many unanswered questions attached to them, but that is a rant for another time. Secondly, if I am in the wrong neighborhood in the at the wrong time, and I don't belong there, I may just get attacked. We should not have been meddling in other peoples business, and just because we are the most powerful nation in the world does not mean we are always right. WE MADE A MISTAKE when we invaded Iraq. We are about to make a bigger mistake by fucking with Iran, who, by the by, is heavily supported by China, and if you think we can win a war with those guys right now, you need to take a deep breath of something other than crack. We need a new set of priorities that include some plans for getting out of the desert and getting American soldiers back to actually defending American soil, instead of dying in the middle of someone else's civil war, which, incidentally, we helped instigate. Why are we even bothering with Iraq? What can we gain by being there one second more when there are millions of unsearched cargo containers entering our ports every month? Why is the National Guard guarding someone else's nation? Let them fucking settle their blood debts in peace. If Sunni and Shiite want to fucking brawl for years, cool with me. But if we don't reign in our government soon, and stop letting them push us into different corners, we are never going to accomplish anything. This is not about liberal and conservative, this is about people standing against a corrupt Federal system that taxes us illegally, bans self-defense, and marches us into war so that the top of the heap can get more powerful. What really pisses ME off is that they say they are doing it for you and me. They try to make US feel unsafe. They make US hate each other. To get to my point again Guido2, THEY are the ones fucking with your family, not some faceless 'smelly third worlder'. The men you need to fear are the ones who wear little American flags on their lapels, and spit lies into microphones on podiums.

Hail Satan. Fuck the BATFE. Have a nice day.

Dangerman

Hail satan?

Actually, Guido2, you should care about what our government did or didn't do, because YOU and I are responsible for it. This is one of the reasons I have been a Libertarian for so long. The government of this country is wayyyyyy out of control, and is taking the citizens into the fire with it. I would fight to the death for my land and my people, but I would never fight a single second for my government, which is what is happening now. Why don't you care that our masters in Washington have orchestrated a great deal of the events that are leading up to REAL ID, new passports with RFID chips, and a fence on the border that will be far more effective at keeping Americans IN then it will ever be at keeping foreign nationals OUT. This new report is most likely government scare tactic TERRORIST BULLSHIT of the highest order, the same and no different than any video Bin Ladin ever put out. All the Pentagon does is echo the threats he makes, louder and louder, until we all panic and go rushing to the men with badges, "save us! Save Us!" How can you see all this and think, "Yeah, these politicians are doing a GREAT FUCKING JOB! Lets keep going!" Does anyone even remember the ONE REASON Bin Ladin gave for his war on the U.S.A.? He said in '92 (IIRC) that he would dissolve all al Qaeda action against the U.S.A. as soon as the last US troop left Saudi Arabian Holy Soil. That's it. He isn't asking that we all convert to Islam. He does not need us to all die. He wants US GOVERNMENT FORCES out of Saudi Arabia. And to be honest, if that really would end the war between the United States and al Qaeda, I think we should take it.

I know exactly who here is going to give me shit for this, but WE ARE NOT THE POLICEMEN OF THE WORLD! Yeah yeah yeah, "We were attacked!" Firstly, I am not convinced that 9/11 happened just like FOX and CNN said it did , and everyone here is smart enough to have some ideas of their own about why the events of 9/11 have so many unanswered questions attached to them, but that is a rant for another time. Secondly, if I am in the wrong neighborhood in the at the wrong time, and I don't belong there, I may just get attacked. We should not have been meddling in other peoples business, and just because we are the most powerful nation in the world does not mean we are always right. WE MADE A MISTAKE when we invaded Iraq. We are about to make a bigger mistake by fucking with Iran, who, by the by, is heavily supported by China, and if you think we can win a war with those guys right now, you need to take a deep breath of something other than crack. We need a new set of priorities that include some plans for getting out of the desert and getting American soldiers back to actually defending American soil, instead of dying in the middle of someone else's civil war, which, incidentally, we helped instigate. Why are we even bothering with Iraq? What can we gain by being there one second more when there are millions of unsearched cargo containers entering our ports every month? Why is the National Guard guarding someone else's nation? Let them fucking settle their blood debts in peace. If Sunni and Shiite want to fucking brawl for years, cool with me. But if we don't reign in our government soon, and stop letting them push us into different corners, we are never going to accomplish anything. This is not about liberal and conservative, this is about people standing against a corrupt Federal system that taxes us illegally, bans self-defense, and marches us into war so that the top of the heap can get more powerful. What really pisses ME off is that they say they are doing it for you and me. They try to make US feel unsafe. They make US hate each other. To get to my point again Guido2, THEY are the ones fucking with your family, not some faceless 'smelly third worlder'. The men you need to fear are the ones who wear little American flags on their lapels, and spit lies into microphones on podiums.

Hail Satan. Fuck the BATFE. Have a nice day.

Dangerman
[/quote]



I take issue with the 'keep American's in' part. How many American's you know want to sneak into the desert and sneak across the border into Mexico? I sure don't know any. BTW, that's illegal too. We need a fence and we need to enforce our laws. Period.

Dangerman wrote:

"Actually, Guido2, you should care about what our government did or didn't do, because YOU and I are responsible for it."

Dangerman:
You will be unlikely to find a stauncher advocate of "real" Homeland Security (read: "border control and immigration law enforcement") nor a more adamant critic of Jorge W. Bush's lack of performance on the above issues.
I also deplore the "two party electorate system" and the general apathetic direction "our" Country (used with some amount of literary license....) is headed.

My intention in the post to SuA was to try and seperate the issues of the US government's involvement in the Middle East and Isreal from the "declaration of war" issued by the Jihadists. I wasn't trying to trivialize what our governments actions are/were, just trying to illustrate that whatever was done, does not justify the turban-knockers coming here and murdering or family members and children.
There was some discussion previously that hinted we "deserved" what was coming to us due to the perceived arrogance of "our" global policies.

I was simply trying to make my point that one really had no influence on the other.

"Better to Deport the Innocents, than Watch our Innocents Murdered..."

Respectfully posted,

guido2 in Houston

French Police Clash With Rioting Youth in Major Paris Subway Hub
Tuesday, March 27, 2007

Riot police firing tear gas and brandishing batons clashed Tuesday with bands of youths who shattered windows and looted shops at a major Paris train station, officials said. Nine people were arrested.

Officials said about 100 people were involved in the melee at Gare du Nord, one of Paris' most important transport hubs. Officers and police dogs fired tear gas and charged at groups of marauding youths, some of them wearing hoods and swinging metal bars.

The youths responded by throwing trash cans and other objects at the officers. A group of youths smashed the windows of a sporting goods store and looted boxes of shoes. Others attacked automatic drink dispensers and set fire to an information booth.

Commuter Cyril Zidou, a 24-year-old electrician, said he was coming home from the gym "when I just got gassed." One woman was evacuated by paramedics for inhalation of tear gas.

The violence did not appear directly related to France's presidential election less than a month away, but it highlighted the social and economic tensions that the country's new leader will inherit when he or she takes power in May.


The train lines from Gare du Nord radiate out to the same suburbs north of Paris where three weeks of rioting erupted in 2005. That violence was born of pent-up anger — especially among youths of Arab and African origin — over years of high unemployment and racial inequalities.

Youths at the station said Tuesday's clashes started when police manhandled a young person of North African origin. Some claimed that the youth's arm was broken in the confrontation.

Zidou said the violence had echoes of the riots in 2005. "They never finished," he said. "It slowed down a bit, but it was never over."

Another commuter, Guy Elkoun, said: "There's always a feeling of insecurity in this train station ... I knew this could happen someday."

Officials from Paris' RATP public transport authority said the violence started after a man without a Metro ticket punched two inspectors during a routine ticket check. Youths also attacked the inspectors and later turned on police patrolling the station, officials said.

"The inspectors were hit with projectiles, as were the officers who came to assist them," said Luc Poignant, an official for the Force Ouvriere police union.

The clashes forced the closure of the station's subway and commuter lines for several hours. The station's long-distance rail hub and Eurostar terminal, which is attached to the subway station, remained open throughout the melee.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,261824,00.html

I wonder. Are the French police required to carry a white flag, or is that optional? Or is that just saved for the French military?

"Officers and police dogs fired tear gas "

-Well-trained dogs! Must be difficult with no opposing digit.....

Guido2 in Houston

Evil Americans, Poor Mullahs

Evil Amer