http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...mp;#entry231413
Case in point.

I purchased this Saiga 308-1 rifle, from Elite Firearms in November of 2006, off of gunbroker.com. I have not fired it yet (test fired 20 rounds by Elite Firearms). It functions fine (hand cycling only, so far). Fit and finish is fine for an AK.

It is not a Vepr rifle, but not bad. I have owned a Vepr .308 and a Vepr K .223. I have also owned Bulgarian and a variety of Chinese. I bought the Saiga 308-1, because I wanted to have a "high" capacity Russian AK .308 rifle.

My dealings with Elite Firearms were prompt, professional, and pleasant. I have read about the negatives on Dave's personality and service. I didn't talk to that Dave. So, I will only comment on the one, I know.

I hear good and bad about Elite Firearms. I imagine, some of it is true and some is false. Maybe the good, will become a regular thing for Elite Firearms and his customers, in the now and the future.

I recently had an experience with Elite Firearms in Hurst tx.
I googled "Shotguns with Detachable Magazines" for home defense, and Elite was one of the sources that came up. Since it was only about 20 miles away I called up and made arrangements to go in and discuss what I was wanting.
Dave was very professional and instructive, patiently explaining and answering all my questions about the S-12.
When I asked him about all the negative words on this forum about Elite he explained his side of the two germane incidents...the individual who received a product with some rust on a part, as well as the other individual whose rifle had a weld deposit to serve as a feed ramp, rather than the installation of a fabricated ramp.

The explanation eased my concerns about Elite Firearms, so I ordered my S-12 and received it 4 weeks later. In the interim I had a couple more ideas I wanted done. When I asked Dave about them when I went in to pick up the completed gun, Dave was completely agreeable to do them even though I was there to pick up the order. He completed the other things I wanted done and I picked up the customized S-12 a week later. The starting point was Elite's Fold-Under version.

Have'nt fired it yet still tinkering around with some other things..another rail, folding foregrip etc.

The trigger pull is sweet...he did the Short Reset Trigger mod, amongst others.

For me, there were absolutely no problems, defects, rude mannerisms or any other of the bad results I have read of here and on the other forum. It is a good thing to have an expert gunsmith around. Also, I had not been aware that silencers were perfectly legal gun accessories before.

Whoah there buddy.

You do know about the required paper work for them to be "perfectly legal gun accessories" right?

I could use some help with my dealing with Dave at Elite Firearms. I purchased a rifle that Dave was selling on Gunbrokers.com. His reserve was never met. I contacted him and arranged a purchase price which was agreeable to us both. The problem arose when the gun arrived at my gun dealer. Dave advertised the gun as a "THIS IS NOT A U.S. MADE GALIL 18" BARREL, BAYO LUG, LOOKS UNFIRED. COMES WITH (4) 35 ROUND ISREALI MAGAZINES AND (1) AR 15 MAG ADAPTOR. IN A HARD CASR." THE NEGOIATED PRICE WAS $2100.00. Gunbrokers auction # 105302422. The Galil is a built gun off a IMI Sporter received with Mossberg milled off and a parts kt with non chrome lined barrel. The rifle was also a 16" barrel with no bayo lug. The gun had alot of improper parts for a oem Galil and parts were falling off when I received it. I tried numerous times to reach Dave w/o any luck. Spoke to Dave's secratary who told me sorry, no refunds. I then explained my concerns and described the gun. I was told vis email under Daves address to go to hell. I then received a email from Dave apologizing for his secratary's comments. Dave offered me a refund. I sent him a email accepting his refund offer and advised If he likes I would accept a $650 partial refund also and keep the gun if he likes. Dave has never responded to my email. I have since sent him 2 addt'l emails without any response. Where do I need to go from here to get this resolved. How should I proceed. Your recommendations would be appreciated as I am new to this hobby. Thank You in advance for any help.

Wow. No, not exactly. The are NFA iems and are controlled in much the same way as machine guns. You can own one in Texas, but there are some legal hoops to jump through.

Well, hopefully you made payment with a credit card and your timeframe for disputing the charges has not expired. If that is not the case, if I were you, I would try to learn to love your new gun, worthless P.O.S. though it may be.
-Oh, and if someone offers you a refund, jump on it. That is not the time to negotiate a compromise.
Maybe you could put an ad in GunBroker for the gun, describing it as the POS it is, and also describing how you came to acquire it...Maybe that would prompt "Diamond Dave" to come off of "high-center"....

guido2 in Houston

Received an email from Dave at Elite Firearms today. Dave apologized for any problems with the gun and agreed to give me a full refund including return shipping and my FFL charges. I had the gun shop ship Dave the gun this morning. Hope now I receive my refund in a timely manner. It appears Dave resolved this issue in an honest, honorable manner. Thanks to all of you for your assistance and recommendations. Bob Q.

Good to see that. I have Dave do my gunsmithing in addition to having bought the S-12 conversion from him. Weren't any noteworthy problems.

Right. "After" doing the legal loop jumping they are a perfectly legal firearm accessory. I wonder if one has to have some sort of paperwork with him at the public range or elsewhere with a class 3 device...suppressor, SBS etc?

Anyone know about that?

It's actually not a legal requirement to have the paperwork with you, but the NFA item must be registered to you.
I have no idea how you would prove that, if you didn't have any paperwork with you.
Your NFA item would probably be confiscated until you showed proof of registration or the PD confirmed it with the ATF NFA Branch.

Tony

Thot so. Thanks, Tony. If SBS w/your silencer ever makes its way to mkt would want to take it to local range.

Yes, believe a copy of the Form 1 or 4 should accompany the registrant/firearm whenever transported, used, or sent to a gunsmith for work. Might not be a legal requirement but bet you'd run across somebody who'd give you grief or worse.

Well, I'm here to advise that "Diamond dave Michener" is now known as "Dead Beat Dave Michener" Dave has sent me 3 emails in the last 3 weeks that my refund check is in the mail. Still no check. I have reported Dave and Elite Firearms to the Fort Worth Better Business Bureau and the Texas Attorney Generals Office, Consumer Protection Division, and filed complaints for fraud and deception. Dave may want to call himself "Coal Dave Michener" as coal is what a diamond is made of over time, pressure and heat. It is obvious Dave is incapable of doing the honest and ethical thing while under the heat and pressure to just make money and screw his customers. Poor Dave, he had a chance to prove his critics wrong.

I received a letter from the Fort Worth Better Business Bureau yesterday. Dave at Elitefirearms finally responded to their 3rd request letter. Dave stated this matter has been all resolved and that he has paid me for a complete refund. Dave's reply was dated 9/16. To date, I still have not received any money from Dave. Is there any length Dave will go to in order not to pay for what he owes? This man is amazing!!! Well I have to now see has he handles this with my attorney and the prososed law suit if this is not resolved very soon.

I spoke to the Hurst Police Dept. today. They have spoken to Dave at Elite Firearms. Dave has advised them that he has paid me 1/2 of what he owes me so far and that the problem has been re4solved!!! I still have not received any money from this POS and have not had any contact with him since my last post. How big a hole can someone dig for themself and expect to climb out of? I can't beleive what this has turned into, and still this man does business oin G.B.

Sorry to hear about your issues, Unfortunately In my business I have to sue people all the time. 9 times out of 10 if you spend the $300 dollars to file the suite upon receiving notification he will settle. You will also be reimbursed your filing fees if you claim them along with damages in your suite, the other advise is follow-up all claims made with a paper trail and supporting docs and emails ( save everything related to your case this is your ammunition!) GOOD LUCK...

I'm not using this dealer but I have sent my new Saiga 12 to a gunsmith. After reading this post I decided to ask if the TCG, which he keeps on hand, is made by Century or not. I expect to hear back in the next day or two. What's wrong with Century parts? How can I know if they are the ones used in a conversion?

For that matter, what documentation should I ask for from my gunsmith doing the upgrade for me for proof of 922r compliance?

Damn good questions.

Wow! I am glad I joined this forum and read this thread. I just bought my 308 Saiga at Cheaper than Dirt in FTW and was given a card by the salesman from Elite Firearms to receive $25 off a conversion. Glad I didn't contact him.

You and me both. Cadiz ( Mrs. Vickie ) was a pleasure to deal with. Tromix (Tony ) & Rifle D. (Jim) seemed very up front and honest. THANK YOU !! Even though they could not take my orders at present I am sure we will do business in the future. I winded up going with Red Jacket and hope to NOT have any more bad experiences with dishonorable FFL or builder types. I have lost more money from believing people that were supposed to be professionals than what I care to mention. The last guy filed chapter 11 / 13 on me.

Hello all. I am a new user & am glad to be a part of this community. Just wanted to give my oppinion on Dave. I have bought about 12 different rifles from him ranging from typical AK's to Galil rifles. All have been of excellent quality & any that have had issues (blemishes on finish, bad rivet head etc) were fixed with no problems. His service is slow at times but he is a one man show and gets behind. I have never been cheated by him and most people I have met , who go to his shop and meet him & buy are quite pleased. He built me a 5.45x39 Galil and it is THE BEST rifle I have EVER owned. He is working on a 5.45x39 AMD 65 for me now. His custom work is excellent. I have bought from many of the places that are listed on here as experts and none of the products I received were any better than what I received from Dave. Im sure the typical replies of being "a plant" for Dave or one of many of the names and derogatory coments I have read here will be shot my way for posting a favorable comment about him, but thats ok. Thanks for letting me post.

Not throwing anything your way, but that is a very strange 1st post.

1911

No offense GermanRifle, but I have my doubts about Elite Firearms. I had one inadvertent dealing with Dave via Gunbroker and, well, to put it kindly, the deal was not successfully completed. Personally, I would simply stay away from anything which says "Elite firearms" on it, near it, over it, under it, (well, you get the idea).



WJ

Hello again all. Yes it is not quite the first post I wanted to add. The main reason I added it is because when I went to the forum, I saw his name at the top of the list of postings. So, I just wanted to put my comments on his work that I received. Again, I am happy that I can post my dealings...good or bad. Thanks again guys.