This is unbelievable. You would think they would have at least done some surveilance first, or at least found out who was the person that lived there. These cops were plain stupid and give law enforcement a bad name.

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/story.aspx...1&catid=158

It takes these things happening to people in power to make changes. They realize that the COPS aren't always right. When these things happen to Joe-Schmoe they are ignored by people like this mayor. Now maybe he'll have the Empathy required to realize that the war on drugs is an innocent-victim ridden nightmare war pushed by trigger happy SOBs hiding behind little metal shields.

SERVE AND PROTECT

SERVE

SERVE

PROTECT

PROTECT


What part of Serve & Protect means: kill 2 innocent dogs, terrorize the Mayor, and ruin the lives of a family?


I'm not a cop hater. But these are assholes in swat gear.

How to prove guilt: Deliver package WITH Marijuana in it. Stake out the site. Wait 24hrs to see if the authorities are called in BY the home-owner about the drug shipment.

How to be a douche: Deliver package without Marijuana. Wait 10 minutes after it's brought inside. Smash the door, kill 2 dogs, and terrorize the mayor.

Wow some shit for shure. I dont know what to say about the le in that town. Yes i do asshats in black! Mall ninjas with a badge.

What people fail to understand is that a SWAT team only has the intel they were given to go on.
Someone had to gather that intel and disseminate it.
So that someone seriously screwed the pooch before SWAT was involved.
And that person should have his ass in a sling!

But still, shooting a dog that is running away from you?????????

"But still, shooting a dog that is running away from you?????????"

TRIGGER HAPPY! Get it? They want to shoot something with their MP5s and people are harder to shoot and get away with. The dog was retreating to get the shotguns anyway.

Police state bullshit for sure! I read about this in today's paper.

Looks like someone needs some of the "Michael Vick program for nurturing sensitivity towards our four-legged friends" kinda training...
Oh wait...
Silly me.. These are cops, operating in the interest of public safety, and are above all that...
Cops don't have time to deal with drug dealers vicious watch dogs in a humane fashion.....
Whew! and I was afraid that something wreckless, dangerous or negligent was going on...

Are there times when you have to put the animal down?
Absolutely!

I will not question the team's judgement in going in.
They are just doing what they are supposed to.

But I can't wrap my head around shooting a retreating dog.

But then it's easy to play Monday Morning Quarterback on an internet forum..................

And the Nazi SS was just doing what they were supposed to in the 40's. Doesn't mean they were RIGHT.

You are missing the point!

They didn't collect the intel.
They didn't pick the target!

Some other shit-for-brains gathered the intel, packaged it all up, and prepared the briefing.

THAT is who is ultimately to blame!


It is truly one of those situations that you cannot judge without having been in one!

They can train these officers, how to shoot, how to fight, how to defend, how to arrest, but judgment, that comes from within the mind and soul!

IMHO... SWAT is a mere tool of whoever put out the order.....
You don't send in SWAT over suspicion.....

I agree with Will on this. While police officers, including SWAT team members, sometimes make mistakes (occasionally even stupid mistakes), they are usually trying to do a good job based upon the information given to them. It is important to understand that SWAT teams rarely, if ever, raid places entirely on their own initiative. Rather, they are called in to execute a high-risk warrant (that a judge has signed off on), deal with a hostage situation, etc. What the SWAT team in question did MAY have been reasonable given the information they were given. We just don't know all the pertinent facts. The story linked to really just gave the mayor's side of the story.

The infamous Nazi excuse was "I was just following orders." I think Will meant that the officers might have been acting fairly reasonably GIVEN THE INFORMATION THEY HAD BEEN PROVIDED WITH. Then again, they may not have been. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt until I have an adequate understanding of the totality of the circumstances as they perceived them at the time. Then, if their actions are demonstrably irrational/inappropriate, I will criticize them.

As for shooting a fleeing dog.... First, we don't know that it was fleeing. That was part of the mayor's side of the story. The truth may have been different. Second (although this probably would not apply in this instance), if a dog has just attacked someone, officers would be legally justified in shooting it even if it was retreating.

Anyway, I'm not saying that the officers were right. I'm just saying that we lack sufficient information to be able to definitively say they were wrong.

Briefing, intel not much of. They busted down the mayors front door,and didnt know who he was?
Something is going on here that we know nothing about.
If LE thought somethine was going on with the mayor there would be an investigatin first. Is there a return address?
Simple explanation drug dealer dumb ass,wrong address.
Simple explanation The mayor is a drug dealer scumbag. Who knows what happened.

Welcome to the War on Drugs.

That last statement is absolutely untrue, as 50,000 -100,000 no knock warrants are served every year in America. Many of them without what a reasonable person might call reasonable cause. Be it bad Intel or outright stupidity, more and more homeowners are awoken with shattered doorframes and thuggish shouts, with no evidence of criminal wrongdoing ever being shown before or after the fact. Often the warrants are issued solely on information given by a compromised drug user who turns "informant" and with increasing frequency served on the wrong house. Vang Khang traded well over 30 shots in all with SWAT before everyone was able to figure out that it was the police, not non-licensed home invaders, and that the house listed on the warrant was on the next block. No one was injured, thanks to body armor and legendary police marksmanship, but last week those officers were awarded medals. Katheryn Johnston, 92 at the time, wasnt so lucky when she fired a warning shot into the ceiling thinking her home was broken into and several plainclothes narcotics officers returned fire, killing her. These are not isolated incidents, as seen at: http://www.cato.org/raidmap/ but a reminder of the cost and unintended consequences of a system that removes the checks and balances so well stated in the fourth amendment to the constitution and instead requires that you immediately, and without prior notice, surrender not only your right to privacy and property against unreasonable search and seizure, but also your basic and very human right to self defense.

Id say the man is lucky to have only lost his dogs, and not his 11 year old son as one drug suspect recently did.

The police spokesman in this particular mayoral case said "We're not in the habit of going to homes and shooting peoples' dogs, If we were, there would be a lot more dead dogs around the county."

In a country where nearly 4,000 people have been killed by law enforcement officers in the last decade, i cant help but be reminded of a famous Charlie Manson quote:
"If i started killing people, there'd be none of you left."

I don't believe I'll weigh in on this one. The thought of anybody barging into my home and killing my dogs has me reasoning more with my heart than my mind.

guido2 in Houston

My 2 cents worth is that who ever had the intel to send swat in needs to fired or suspended. It could have been something as simple as they had a hard- on for the mayor or was wanting their 15 minutes of fame for busting a "public" official. We had a similar thing happen in my home town. Cops were looking for a suspected drug dealers involved in a drive-by and found the car parked in front a house. Now for the hour and a half while they waited for the neighboring special response team "swat" to arrive they did not do any other checking to see that they had the right house. In the end they crashed down both front and back doors to find a single mother and her 3 children having a movie night in front of the tv and threw mom and the kids to the floor with guns to their heads. Oops!!!!! Know one thought that maybe the drive-by suspects may have ditched their car and ran. In the end the city had to put on new doors and pay for couseling for the young kids who were scared shitless and pay off this poor lady who said now her kids have to sleep with her because they are afraid of the masked bad guys coming back.
Yes they do have to crash a bad guys place but the intel person should make damn sure it's the right house. Because in this day and age with home invasinons and crime up a person may just think it's a criminal breaking in, and return fire.

They forgot to read the goals they have posted on their website:


Chief of Police, Melvin C. High
The Prince George's County Police Department is the primary law enforcement agency in the County. The goals of our Department are to contribute to a high quality of life by maintaining a peaceful and orderly community, by protecting the lives and property of our citizens, by reducing the opportunity for individuals to commit criminal acts, and by effectively investigating and apprehending persons suspected of committing criminal acts. The Department is committed to accomplishing these goals by working alongside you, the citizens of our community.


http://www.co.pg.md.us/Government/PublicSa...mp;s=&n=230

that story really fucking sucks man. and that's my professional opinion.

i hate it for happening to the mayor, i feel extremely bad his dogs were needlessly killed. we do raids here when needed and cant think of when we've shot a dog.

but im more pissed about the people (not stating names) that site behind a computer and judge us w/o walking in our shoes. shit happens plain and simple and gets worse when incomplete info is handed down. the officers involved shouldve gotten a basic description of the "dealer" and others involved with him.

thats 1 of the times where basically evreything was handled wrong, but dont be a little cocksucker and compare us to nazis. be a little more understanding, look deeper and, look up instances where we save lives. my bad...the media doesnt like to publish the good parts...doesnt sell as well.

Gotta back up 152dbs here.

I hate to phrase it this way, but in these types of situations, it really is true:
Until you've been in this type of situation, I mean actually be the first ones to make entry, you really cannot comprehend what it all entails!
There is absolutely no way to relate it to you either.

I can guarantee you one thing, were it a raid I was on and it turned out to be the wrong address, and, god forbid, the wrong person was shot or killed, they'd better hide the damn narc that vetted the intel cuz I'd be on my way back to the office for a wall-to-wall session with them!

Bad deal all around. Hope someone keeps track of this story and lets us know how it turns out.

thanks man, couldnt have said it better. and also thanks for backing me up....not many people stand next to you when shit hits the fan and theres alot of liability in this line of work.

many people feel only remorse for the "victim" as they put it, but the LEOs that stand in the line of fire need some sympathy as well. if anything goes wrong...just a little, we feel bad....and worse lose our jobs and livelihood. we are not trigger happy cowboys that are shown in the media....we do our job plain and simple and we want to go home at the end of shift.

Another no-knock warrant ends badly, nothing new here except that this time it involved a mayor. A failed and ignorant war on drugs colliding with an ignorant entry tactic, nothing good will come of it. If such a thing happened at my house, it would not end well. I would likely be killed and it wouldn't be my fault but the cops would likely get away with it. A sign of the times.

Sadly,All a cop has say is..I was in fear for my life,and they will walk away.Some of you might remember a post i up awhile back about a swat team member killing a mother and seriously wounding her 1 year old baby in my home town during a raid,there were 6 kids in the home at the time.Read the text below,if this wasnt negligent homicide i dont know what is.The cop was aquited of all charges

http://www.limaohio.com/news/officers_2622...ander_swat.html
http://www.limaohio.com/news/foy_26243___a...lia_wilson.html

Here is the wikipedia entry with a few more examples, with references.

"Tracy Ingle was shot in his house five times during a no-knock raid in North Little Rock, Arkansas. After the police entered the house Tracy thought armed robbers had entered the house and intended to scare them away with a non working gun. The police expected to find drugs, but none were found. He was brought to the intensive care, but police pulled him out of intensive care for questioning, after which they arrested him and charged him with assault on the officers who shot him."

they sure do seem to be getting a bit restless, dont they? HMMM

Just for the record:
Any contact with the North Little Rock, Arkansas police department is not going to work out well for the contactee.
Absolutely notorious for this type of behavior, and always have been.........second only to New Orleans, in my estimation.

Make that SOME of NOPD!

So, in a Castle Doctrine state, I would assume that "I was in fear of my life" would work just fine for accidentally taking out LEO's during a "no knock" raid. This may be absolutely wrong and 180 degrees off but it makes sense to me and I would wager that it makes sense to a lot of folks. This "no knock" business and a lack of approprate intel looks like a recipe for disaster for both the law abiding citizen and the under appreciated LEO. I wonder how long it will take common sense to catch up with reality?

1911

it only endangers those carrying out the warrant, not those that suck as collecting intel.


and common sense hasnt caught up with reality...doubt it ever will.

Well, it'd be a bad day for everyone if they did that to some of the guys here... If someone has done nothing wrong, and got their shit raided in that fashion? I'd be already waiting for them to come through my door after i heard them shoot my dogs....i go out fighting

ah, I just have to edit this out.

Im sorry guys. and to my fanclub/patrol, too!

I think the picture says enough.

and 152dbs, no offense, but id really rather a SWAT team member has a bad day at work, or might lose his livelyhood (which i pay for), than so much as touch my dog, let alone fire on my family. This is America and we are afforded certain protections from unwarranted assault, for which this definitely qualifies. In a growing percentage of cases, not only is this bad policy which may bring about unintended consequences, it is criminal. Hard to tell the good guys from the bad in a broken system, and just doing a job isn't an excuse in a civil society.

this is what concretes the "us vs. them" mentality, people dont care for what happens to us and our families.

im not saying what they did was right, just people are quick to condemn police officers. have u ever lost your job by doing what u were told? or by doing something correct? ive had friends in both of those boats.

everyone wants to judge cops....its our fault if we are quick and rush into a situation...then we are bashed by the media if we dont rush a situation.

families complain to us both ways...either if we arrest someone or if we dont. im not justifying what was done to the mayor was correct, just trying to allow people that are ignorrant to what we see daily. walk a mile in our shoes b4 u attempt to pass judgment on us.


i defend my profession almost weekly to people that have a family member that is in jail. they usually toss in " motherfucking pigs" here and there. and when i get tired of overhearing them, i politely tell them not to call 911 when theyre getting robbed, raped, or beaten. people want sympathy from us after they insult us. i have more remorse for the dogs, i love mine and would do anything to keep is goofy ass alive.


on a side note:

Bvamp, ur pup still alive? not sure if it was ur current or favorite. kinda looks like my neighbor's dog. shes like 8 yrs old and my 8 month old ridgeback has a massive crush on her.

Hello
Those that have read my posts here know i'm pretty passionate about my doggers, (and others' doggers, and homeless doggers, and...)

Anyway, I've tried to reserve a statement on this subject until I felt a little less emotional about it. Here's what I've decided:

I don't know if it is typical for a department to have a policy to take out "aggressive, threatening" dogs but I would not be surprised if this were not policy, obviously for the officer's safety.

I don't know if either of these dogs did anything that might have been construed to be "threatening". It was stated that the smaller dog was likely not, didn't mention about the first dog shot.

I don't know if the police entry team in question had specific orders to shoot this family's dogs.

However, in my mind, with the above scenario being a justifiable exception, "orders" to go in someone's home and kill their Lab's is not much different than "orders" to go into someone's home and confiscate their legally owned firearms or "orders" to go rape their wife or cause some other such mayhem.

At some point "orders be damned" and "right and wrong" have to prevail. That's the stuff we as Americans are made of. Not "orders".

And if the dogs did nothing threatening to the officers, and they refused to allow the owners to restrain them in crates or whatever so they would be no threat, well, those are some pretty sorry bastards.

Respectfully posted,
guido2 in Houston

I understand, and im not saying that it should be "us vs. them" at all, instead that someone should realize that its just Us, down here. The system is broken, the people may or may not be, but only the people can heal, and then heal the system. the system will not heal itself. Bad orders come from the Top Down, but real change most often comes from the Bottom Up. From my point of view, the whole Us vs. Them concept is also created when good people decided to just "do what they were told" and "protect their careers". And no, ive never lost my job for doing what i was told, though i have lost a job for refusing to do what i thought was wrong. Im not trying to attack at all, but i do think we have to think about these situations from all positions, and what if it was my family, what if i was given that warrant. Both are pretty rough shoes to be standing in, if you ask me.

And yes, those people shouldn't call 911, in my opinion, but then, to quote a friend of mine: "I don't just want gun rights... I want individual liberty, a culture of self-reliance... I want the whole bloody thing."

Doing as your told and doing what is right are 2 different things, in my field (ems) I do what i'm told until i think it conflicts with doing what is right, i'm responsible for a lot of things and I will not let myself get into a situation where i could be sued, or arrested, or anything I think would cause unjust harm or care to someone, I may lose my job and mess up my career...but i can go to sleep soundly at night, doing the right thing is worth it. So with that said, 90% of my field doesn't do the right thing, because its a losing battle, but thats why i've been passed up for promotion after i refused promotion if i would "change" my ways and teach the new guys the "company's" way of doing things....its a sad sad system, i don't know if thats the same in police, but if it is, i'd rather protect myself and family before i call 911, I don't know if you guys read books a lot, but there is one worth looking at, call 911 and die. I view anyone coming into my bedroom unannounced as a threat to my life, and especially after taking out my dogs, every single one would been shot that came through my bedroom door.