ok a buddy of mine has ar-15 thats pretty much a stock m-4 carbine from bushmaster. not a bad gun but he wants some glass for it
now i am not at all opposed to scoping a carbine but with how high the carry handle is set and then add scope bases and optics i cant imagine how high id have to place my head to look down it!
add to that since this isn't a long range match rifle i don't believe that high magnification will used to any real efficiency.
so being a long range minded, Mauser bolt action shooting, high match grade ammo using kind-o-guy. i don't have the foggiest idea what to suggest for glass for this
ideas anyone?????

Hello
I'd recommend trading in the M4 upper for an A4 model, and scoring a removable carry handle if he really has to have one.
I don't think the fixed carry handle is a very good accessory for a civilian weapon. Really limits the versatility.

JMO.

guido2 in Houston

i know what your saying but, he doesn't have the cash or the new upper. so hence the route he wants to take.
if i was to do it id take a Olympic arms k16.
never the less this is the route he wants to take with this. namely for price
so price range is like 120-200 at most

There are a TON of AR15 optics out there in that price range geared for his handled upper... They are smaller tubed, low magnification optics, red dots, or hologram dot sights... designed for exactly what he wants to do.

Such as...

http://www.combathunting.com/AR_15_M_16_M4..._P4_Sniper.html

http://www.samsguns.com/cgi-bin/Store/stor...productid=18443

http://www.gunaccessories.com/AR15/AR15scopemounts.asp

http://www.combathunting.com/RED_DOT_SCOPE...RY_MOUNT_1.html

http://www.combatoptical.com/catalog/4x30-...-sight-318.html


Also... he can start with something like this...

http://mountsplus.com/thestore/CARRY_HANDLE_MOUNTS.html

http://www.shoptics.com/lp-mt-mnt-168r25.html

http://www.combathunting.com/AR_15_M_16_M4..._INSERTS_1.html

http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/the-2...le-Mount/Detail

And put any optic he wants on it...

That should get you started on a LONG LIST of wants, and desires!!! rofl!!

well for him i think a 1.5-3x magnification will work for what he wants..
i still think its nutty to even bother but to each his own .....


on a side note
after stumbling across the Olympic arms k16 i was wondering what you guys think of it?
i mean he spent over 800 on his bushmaster carbine and i am finding these oly rifles for under 700
free float hand guards and bull barrel looks like a good way to go with a flat top receiver.
i was thinking that if i went that route that id use a nice 3-9x40mm optic (simple but reasonable for the gun and round)
and maybe having a reflex optic for a mall ninja taticool QCB set up
since we got some really great gunsmiths here i wanted to see what they had to say.

Get a red dot sight. If your bud is strapped for cash check out Midway USA they have quite a selection of inexpensive red dot sights. Maybe pick up a knock off magnifier for 100$. Tru glo makes the only red dot with magnification thats under 750$ it's a 2X priced around 100 bucks. I would look at leapers 4 X 32 also.

Do some research on Oly. I've seen a lot of negative reviews about their stuff. Sure, some are just kool-aid drinkers who think Colt is the only way to go, but also, I've never seen one company with such bad press. I've also read some great things about Oly too (I hear their barrels are awesome). But the negatives overpowered the positives, and shifted me elsewhere. But yeah, I'd suggest doing some reading, if Oly is on the top of your list.

If you want high quality, for a lower price, check out LMT or BCM (I'm thinking about getting a BCM 16" midlength soon). Any AR you find that you like, can be had cheaper, simply by buying the complete lower, and complete upper, separately. Then just slap them together. I saved over $100 just by doing that .

If you do go ahead and get the Oly, you can then sell it and buy a Saiga, or other top line AK.

My brother has an Olympic CAR-style AR and I have an S&W M&P-15. In terms of fit and finish, mine is much nicer. He put an accu-wedge in his and only had to shave off a tiny little bit. I left about 1mm of material on the bottom of an accu-wedge, and even shaved down the back substantially and it still wouldn't fit. When you let the bolt carrier drop on his, there is a distinctive bell-ringing sound, whereas with mine, it's just a smooth, solid snickt with no reverberation. He paid $750 for his, and I paid $825 for mine. I think the extra $75 is worth it, personally.

If your buddy is totally opposed to getting a flattop upper, he could do like my brother did, and get a quadrail front handguard and mount an Aimpoint (or other red dot, but it works extremely well with an Aimpoint CompML2) on the quadrail and be able to co-witness with the red dot and the irons.

If he doesn't want to mess with any of that, and just get a cheap carry handle mounted optic, I personally think he would be better sticking with irons. ARs have the best iron sights of any rifle I've shot, and from my experience, cheap optics aren't really worth messing with.

well with OLY, even if the fit and finish inst that great i don't care cause i plan to use it for truck/shtf gun of sorts so no matter what its gonna get the hell kicked out of it.
all i care about is the accuracy and reliability
as for going the saiga route, i cant too easily free float an ak plus i cant seem got get anyone who has a .5 moa AK,
but for me even 1-1.5 moa is good by me.
but that not to say im still not in debate on that idea of ak vs ar
i think a lot of the bad press for oly comes from when they used cast receivers. a dumb idea for sure.
now they use billet, but we are a nation of "never forget" and will damn a company for a misstake they made years ago.
bad press moves faster than good.
for $650 i cant say i can get an saiga set up the way i want it for that price
let alone out of the box.

oh and on a side note...about the "ring" your brother gets from the bolt slamming home, my buddy's bushy were talking about here has that same "ring", and he dropped i think 800-850 on it.
im not saying its bad im just saying things like that are not always important.
but i do get what your saying in regards to quality and fitting.

oh and AMEN about the cheap optics thing, to me , if you got a gun that will shoot 1 moa and the bullet is meant for more than 500 yrds, spend no less than 250 on the glass for it.
i am a simple man when it comes to optics, plain cross hairs are fine by me. i don't need nor want a bullet drop compensator or a light up recticle. just give me a good solid, sturdy, reliable, accurate, piece of glass and let me and my talent take care of the rest.

If your looking for a SHTF gun, that you may put your life on, I'd opt not to go with Oly. For a little more cash, you can have a much better AR, and if it comes down to your life depending on it, a little cash is nothing.



Personally, I think the whole AR vs AK "debate" is dumb. Two different animals, as far as I'm concerned.



Either way, an AK would fit the trunk/SHTF gun role better than an AR, IMO. For the price of even a cheap Oly, you can have 2 Saigas (rifles). 2 great AK's > 1 less-than-stellar AR .

ya know ya got a point
so how cheap could i build a GOOD ak?
i mean as in like in .223 (or 5.56 which would be the chamber id like to have), with about 1.5 moa with decent ammo, and rail mounting options.
no folding stock, preferably a 18" - 20" pipe.

A 20" Saiga .223 would be a good base for a great AK (yes, it's already an AK, but I'm talking converted back original form).

Throw in about $100 or so in conversion parts, and you're set. You now have a brand new Russian AK .

As far as 1.5MOA or not, you'd have to check out the .223 section here. I don't personally own a .223, but I hear they get better groups than the 7.62x39.

So take that $700+ you had planned on for an AR, and you could have yourself a really nice .223 AK, with money left over for mags and ammo.