http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=110600

We ask the Russians to being in guns that we could easily convert a few years ago. We even took them over and showed the the Arsenal guns and explained why they were so popular. I guess we fucked up on that one. It appears that the Russians have gone around the backs of RAAC and decided to sell these to the Bulgarians instead. I hope thats the case and that RAAC wasn't shortsighted enough to tell them no thanks we dont want them!

Honestly it would not suprise me if the Russians did that. They have done this kind of thing in the past.....

It's made it to other Kalashnikov forums, too.





.... and the HOLY COW image of the month:


Working ARFCOM link

I hope these sell like hotcakes served by Miss July, so we can get some AK-101 and AK-74M clones in, too.

Edited due to photobucket failure.

At ARF they are saying there will be "three different variations of feed plates". I assume that they are referring to feed ramps, which probably means that standard AK mags will work, like the waffle mag in the picture, and possibly other calibers. Also available with the 100 series folding stock, like in the picture. Yup, I'll have to get one of these it they price it reasonably.

Wow! Beautiful!

Can't wait to see how much they're going to sell for. If I can swing it, I'm in!

Mike

They have to make a different version for the US market to avoid stupid Clinton-era BATF regulations that are still in effect. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to import them.

Right, we would have already had some of these options if it wasn't for that. From what I read, Arsenal will get these in an import legal configuration and mod them to get the desired result. They probably even ship them unfinished. They did hint that Arsenal might by subcontracting to others to help keep up with demand, that's a little troublesome.

my guess?

here's how you can import an AK-100 factory with very little conversion process.

Trigger group already forward.
Folding Trunnion in place with Fixed stock that lacks a hinge.
Feed ramp area ready to install just missing the ramp.

Arsenal sticks on their US BULGY COPY STOCK, sticks the pistol grip on, and swaps out the trigger group to a US made duplicate or G2 trigger.

There'd be no plate to remove, and no fixed trunnion to replace. Everything would be in tact yet sporterized.

How is this any different than any other saiga conversion?

I dont get why this is news, Someone buying saiga's and converting them to look like AK's.

So.. what does this all mean? for us, RAAC ect?

They're gonna be factory guns. Not aftermarket conversions.


Evidentally ( gleaned from other sites ) Legion is another sub company of Izhmash. Apparently Legion made an import/export deal with Arsenal on these.

RAAC should still be importing what they are importing.

I dont see it as being any different. They are factory guns only because Arsenal in LV calls themselves a factory, they make the same crap vector and every other builder do, they just, (at one point) had a better line on bulgarian parts. Seems to me like their bulgarian deal is (has been) falling apart, and so they went to the russians in an attempt to bolster up the quantity.

It said right on the link that they come in as ban compliant sporting rifles, and are then converted. I think id rather go with Viking Kitty or E-Tac, if thats the case, as at least ill get some decent service, not to mention a decent finish.

Does anyone else smell the burning hype in here?

This is news because Blain and I took the Russian rep around the SHOT show a few years ago in FL and ask them to do this very thing. At first the Russians did not get the hype and RAAC flatly said they could not import them like this. Maybe the Russians finally caught on and figured if RAAC would not do it they would get someone who would.... Maybe RAAC did not ask the right people the right way or ask for help from ATF as to how to get it done. Who knows but either way the Russians probably should not have gone around RAAC and in talking to Clyde today he was plenty pissed off about it.

Oh no, i agree that importing partially assembled russian rifles and finishing them in the US is a kick ass idea, dont get me wrong, Im just saying that what Arsenal says and What Arsenal does are often two different things. To be honest, until you indicated otherwise, i assumed they were buying stock saiga's, as the one in their picture says Saiga right on it, and this supposed new subsidary is engraved in the same script as their own Arsenal, obviously added later.

If they are going around RAAC, that is a little different, and while they might be saving a good amount of money on not buying sporterized AK's and converting them (if in fact they are getting military styled parts) i think experience has shown that they wont pass any of that savings on to the customer, and so id STILL say, if you are looking for a nice Russian AK, you are better off (most likely, i mean, i could be wrong) buying a stock Saiga, and have a competent smith who has proven themselves in the market, convert it for you. there are plenty of good people out there for this. Now, if this means that Arsenal will be bringing in and selling a good number of russian parts as well, it could be a good thing for everyone.

I am supprised that the RAAC deal isnt an exclusive one, any idea why that is?

And, well, has anyone tried talking to Zastava?

Anyone know what these are going to sell for?

they sure do look sweet........... and the serial # on the one in the pnoto indicates an 06.... so hmmmmmmmm

have they just been thiniking about this for awhile? or what?

It was stated on another forum that the rifle pictured is just a prototype assembled from a RAAC Saiga by a Sub-Contractor (unnamed).

any bets on who built it?

First "official" photos (evidentally the above photos were 'oops leaks')

They can't be RAAC Saigas, because they're not imported by RAAC.

The importer marks on these are "Arsenal, Las Vegas NV".

New Legion Saiga fact sheet (pdf)

That flyer is interesting.

They have all the stuff most would want.

I wonder what they would sell for?

yeah, I can't find anything on the Arsenal web site about this. From that flyer, all one would have to do is mover the fire control group forward and install another stock. I wonder how good their trigger is? Heck, probably should go with the G2 anyhow. If they're anywhere from $400 to $600 it would make it worth it.

Someone has a good idea for those who want to a conversion but can't do some of the advanced work. Would be a good buy if under $450.00

More than $400 and I'm not interested.

Somebody posted that on calguns.net on 9/6 They were saying Arsenal wants around 650$ each.

$650

Although I am not suprised since Arsenal = $$$$, I could by two unconverted RAAC saigas for one of those.

No shit that's what I said. Here in Cali our gun prices are inflated but I got a pair of Saiga's for 840$. Arsenal wants 650$, Lancasters are 750$ and the fit and finish of their AK's is second to none. I think it's cool to have a real Russian AK, hell I might pay a little more to get 1. 650$ for that type and it's not even finished, fuk that.

I say "bah" to Arsenal. All they are doing is bringing dimpled recievers with a press on retainer, muzzle brake, and more bullshit stampings to show who imported it. Saigas are great not only because they are Russian, but because one gets to put their own sweat and blood into make something completely different and new. There is another thread I saw posted that used the "sports car vs. hot rod" metaphor. I bought my Saiga, bought my parts, and had a blast putting it together. The "oh shit" moments when modifying the receiver make me appreciate my rifle much much more than any store bought gun. I've had friends shoot my rifle and say "I really like your AK." MY AK. I made it what it is. And that's why I love it.