ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) — Pakistan's military has ordered its forces to open fire if U.S. troops launch another air or ground raid across the Afghan border, an army spokesman said Tuesday.

The orders, which come in response to a highly unusual Sept. 3 ground attack by U.S. commandos, are certain to heighten tensions between Washington and a key ally against terrorism. Although the ground attack was rare, there have been repeated reports of U.S. drone aircraft striking militant targets, most recently on Sept. 12.

Pakistani officials warn that stepped-up cross-border raids will accomplish little while fueling violent religious extremism in nuclear-armed Pakistan. Some complain that the country is a scapegoat for the failure to stabilize Afghanistan.

Pakistan's civilian leaders, who have taken a hard line against Islamic militants since forcing Pervez Musharraf to resign as president last month, have insisted that Pakistan must resolve the dispute with Washington through diplomatic channels.

However, army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas told The Associated Press that after U.S. helicopters ferried troops into a militant stronghold in the South Waziristan tribal region, the military told field commanders to prevent any similar raids.

"The orders are clear," Abbas said in an interview. "In case it happens again in this form, that there is a very significant detection, which is very definite, no ambiguity, across the border, on ground or in the air: open fire."

U.S. military commanders accuse Islamabad of doing too little to prevent the Taliban and other militant groups from recruiting, training and resupplying in Pakistan's wild tribal belt.

Pakistan acknowledges the presence of al-Qaida fugitives and its difficulties in preventing militants from seeping through the mountainous border into Afghanistan.

However, it insists it is doing what it can and paying a heavy price, pointing to its deployment of more then 100,000 troops in its increasingly restive northwest and a wave of suicide bombings across the country.

After talks Tuesday with British officials in London, Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari said he did not "think there will be any more" cross-border raids by the U.S. He declined to comment on the order to use lethal force against American troops.

Instead, he and British Prime Minister Gordon Brown issued a joint statement saying Afghanistan and Pakistan should lead the efforts to battle border militancy. The joint statement left out any mention of the United States.

American officials have confirmed their forces carried out the Sept. 3 raid near the town of Angoor Ada but given few details of what happened.

Abbas said that Pakistan's military had asked for an explanation but received only a "half-page" of "very vague" information that failed to identify the intended target.

Pakistani officials have said the raid killed about 15 people, and Abbas said they all appeared to be civilians.

"These were truck drivers, local traders and their families," he said.

How to reverse a surge in Taliban violence in Afghanistan has become a major issue in the U.S. presidential campaign and refocused attention on the porous border with Pakistan.

Pakistan's military has won American praise for a six-week offensive against militants in the Bajur tribal region that officials here say has killed 700 suspected insurgents and about 40 troops. Troops backed by warplanes killed eight more alleged militants Tuesday, officials said.

In the same timeframe, there has been a surge in missile strikes apparently carried out by unmanned U.S. drones. Such attacks killed at least two senior al-Qaida commanders earlier this year.

Abbas did not say when exactly the orders for Pakistani troops to open fire to prevent cross-border raids by U.S. troops were issued. He wouldn't discuss whether Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, who replaced Musharraf as army chief last year, personally took the decision or if the orders had been discussed with American officials.

The spokesman also played down suggestions that the instructions had been put into practice before dawn on Monday, when U.S. helicopters reportedly landed near Angoor Ada only to fly away after troops fired warning shots.

Abbas insisted no foreign troops had crossed the border and that "trigger-happy tribesmen" had fired the shots. Pakistani troops based nearby fired flares to see what was going on, he said.

The U.S. military in Afghanistan said none of its troops were involved.

In a rare public statement last week, Kayani said Pakistan's sovereignty would be defended "at all cost." Abbas said Pakistani officials had to consider public opinion, which is skeptical of American goals in the region and harbors sympathy for rebels fighting in the name of Islam.

"Please look at the public reaction to this kind of adventure or incursion," Abbas said. "The army is also an extension of the public and you can only satisfy the public when you match your words with your actions."

Good luck finding them to shoot at them. I hear they're the best soldiers in the world. *wink*

Such a confusing situation.....

Yes, if we are still there in the morning - they will severly trounce us!

I think this is sabre rattling, Pakistan's military isn't going to do shit to the U.S. forces.

Number one they would get their asses kicked, and number two, there would severe political fall out.


And another thing, they don't even fucking control the area in question, the local warlords do.

Hmm, where will we get our POS Farmer's Market counterfeit Buck knives if Pakistan doesn't like us anymore?

I'm beginning to think it is time to break it off in their ass........

DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan - Pakistani troops and tribesmen opened fire on two U.S. helicopters that crossed into the country from neighboring Afghanistan, intelligence officials said Monday.

The helicopters did not return fire and re-entered Afghan airspace without landing, the officials said.

Pakistan's army and the U.S. military in Afghanistan said they had no information on the reported incursion late Sunday, which will likely add to tensions between Islamabad and Washington.

A spate of suspected U.S. missile strikes into Pakistan's border region and a raid by U.S. commandos said to have killed 15 people have angered and embarrassed Pakistani leaders while signaling Washington's impatience with Pakistani efforts to clear out militant havens.

During a recent speech to Parliament, newly elected President Asif Ali Zardari, who is considered U.S.-friendly, warned that no country would be allowed to violate Pakistan's sovereignty in the name of the war on terror.

Zardari is on his way to New York to attend the U.N. General Assembly, and he is expected to meet President Bush.

The two intelligence officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to media.

They said informants in the field told them of the incursion around one mile inside the disputed and poorly demarcated border in the Alwara Mandi area in North Waziristan, a tribal region the U.S. considers a sanctuary for Taliban and al-Qaida fighters.

A week ago, U.S. helicopters reportedly landed near Angoor Ada, a border village in nearby South Waziristan, but returned toward Afghanistan after troops fired warning shots.

A Pakistani military spokesman said last week that troops had orders to open fire in case of another cross-border raid by foreign troops.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080922/ap_on_.../as_pakistan_us

Nuke 'em. Nuke 'em all. Turn it over to Isreali control. They won't fuck around.

What ever happened to the cool tactical nukes we were developing in the 80's? Neutron bombs, baby!

guido2 in Houston

I have two comments for this:

First of all, don't they not even know where the borders are? Doesn't that make border protection impossible?

And:

My Father came up with a great idea. He said we go to Israel and give them a price we want to spend on gas. And then, we ask no questions and give them whatever they want.

AND....................


KABUL, Afghanistan - Pakistani troops fired at American reconnaissance helicopters patrolling the Afghan-Pakistan border Thursday, heightening tensions as the U.S. steps up cross-border operations in a region known as a haven for Taliban and al-Qaida militants. Pakistan's president said only "flares" were fired.

Two American OH-58 reconnaissance helicopters, known as Kiowas, were on a routine afternoon patrol in the eastern province of Khost when they received small arms fire from a Pakistani border post, said Tech Sgt. Kevin Wallace, a U.S. military spokesman. There was no damage to aircraft or crew, officials said.

"They did not cross the border and they did not fire back," Wallace said.

The Pakistani military disputed that assertion, saying its troops fired warning shots when the two helicopters crossed over the border — and that the U.S. helicopters fired back.

"When the helicopters passed over our border post and were well within Paskitani territory, own security forces fires anticipatory warning shots. On this, the helicopters returned fire and flew back," a Pakistani military statement said.

In New York, Pakistan's new president, Asif Ali Zardari, said his military fired only "flares" at foreign helicopters that he claimed had strayed across the border from Afghanistan.

Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari said his forces fired only as a way "to make sure that they know that they crossed the border line."

"Sometimes the border is so mixed that they don't realize they have crossed the border," he told reporters before he began a meeting with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

The Pakistani military said the matter was "being resolved" in consultations between the army and the NATO force in Afghanistan. A NATO statement said the militaries were "working together to resolve the matter."

The U.S. has stepped up attacks on suspected militants in the frontier area, mostly by missiles fired from unmanned drones operating from Afghanistan. The incursions — especially a ground raid into South Waziristan by American commandos Sept. 3 — have angered many Pakistanis.

Pakistani army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas said last week that Pakistani field commanders have previously tolerated international forces crossing a short way into Pakistan because of the ill-defined and contested nature of the mountainous frontier.

"But after the (Sept. 3) incident, the orders are clear," Abbas said. "In case it happens again in this form, that there is a very significant detection, which is very definite, no ambiguity, across the border, on ground or in the air: open fire."

On Wednesday, Pakistan's army said it had found the wreckage of a suspected surveillance drone in South Waziristan, but denied claims by Pakistani intelligence officials that troops and local people shot down the aircraft.

Abbas said Pakistan's military was awaiting a full report from Afghanistan on Thursday's shooting, but that Pakistani units had "very clear" orders not to fire across the border. "We are getting it investigated," he said.

In Washington, Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman said the coalition immediately requested an explanation from Pakistan for what he described as a "troubling" incident.

"It would be fairly hard to mistake a helicopter flying in that region as anything but ISAF or U.S.," Whitman said.

He said the militants have always tried to exploit the border region.

"It's a challenge along the border and that's why we continue to look for ways to improve our coordination," Whitman said.

Asked how Pakistani forces could mistake U.S. helicopters for enemy forces — especially since Taliban and al-Qaida forces don't have aircraft — Whitman said: "Only Pakistan can articulate their intent."

Pakistani civilian leaders have condemned the cross-border operations by U.S. forces, which have been authorized by President Bush, while the army has vowed to defend Pakistan's territory "at all cost."

"We will not tolerate any act against our sovereignty and integrity in the name of the war against terrorism," Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani told journalists Wednesday. "We are fighting extremism and terror not for any another country, but our own country. This is our own war."

Pakistan's tribal areas have become a breeding ground for Taliban and al-Qaida militants, who are launching attacks inside Pakistan but also across the border into Afghanistan, where the levels of violence have reached record heights since the ouster of the Taliban from power in the U.S.-led invasion in 2001.

Yea, I just read that elsewhere. What the hell were they thinking!? If a US military chopper gets hit by fire they are going to smoke whoever fired on them.

It's amazing that Pakistan is not sure where the border is, and acknowledge that they have little control in the area, yet insist that US forces not operate there.