QUOTE (SOPMOD @ Oct 11 2008, 04:05 AM)

...also because it's just wrong and creating a state of enmity with them does nothing for our cause.
... you have no business picking fights with people who have nearly limitless support and who in all reality are just doing their jobs.
Wait a second! ANYONE that comes to your house to take your guns is the one in the wrong! Be it a thug, a military man, a cop, an ATF agent, ANYONE! There is no giving in to fight another day with this, once your guns are gone they are GONE! The time for sitting down and talking is done. Not to mention under the Posse Comitatus Act the military is NOT ALLOWED to be used as a police force in the US!
Let me remind everyone that to be in the military means an oath to protect the Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic...this means any order given that is in conflict with the Constitution is not a valid order! Will you stand up to an order that is not right even though you could be punished? That is for you to decide. If it means taking away my guns you'd better be prepared to answer to your creator for the wrong decision!
Please let me elaborate on the history of the Bill of Rights and the 2nd Amendment:
The Bill of Rights is not a document that gives us rights at all, but just a partial listing of what rights we have as human beings. Note the founding fathers use of "inalienable" and "endowed to us by our Creator", not "for interpretation by the supreme court". These rights exist without a Bill of Rights or the Constitution, they are God-given and for everyone, not just United States citizens. The govt cannot take away your rights, but if they are powerful enough they can DENY you your rights. This is what is happening today. The founding fathers just thought that without a Bill of Rights the govt would end up denying our rights little by little, one at a time, like they have been. So they enumerated SOME of our rights so that wouldn't happen. Well look where we've ended up, our rights are being denied anyway. The govt's primary job is to protect these rights, and it's doing a piss poor job.
Specific to the 2nd Amendment: Now DC vs Heller stated that personal firearms ownership is a right(Great, I already knew that), but you can still have "reasonable" restrictions. What part of "shall not be infringed" don't they understand? This applies to CCW permits, 4473's, open carry laws, most any gun laws. No matter what way ANYONE interprets the 2nd amendment it does not change it. Remember "inalienable" and "endowed to us by our Creator" again? Still applicable.
"The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments." ---George Washington
"Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty." ---George Washington
"It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it."
---George Washington
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." ---George Washington