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Mississippi Auto Arms
In his first sentence, he listed Biden's greatest accomplishments including passing the 1994 landmark Assault Weapons ban. The second sentence Obama said he and Biden share their same core values and ideas of where the country should go. What happened to Obama now being Pro-Second Amendment?
RangerM9
don't think he ever was....there was a fake "pro-gun" group that claimed he was a supporter of 2nd A.

sure wish we had some other choices in this race.......i like some of each of their ideas, i hate some of each of their ideas.....i just don't want to vote for either....
bigj480
QUOTE (RangerM9 @ Oct 15 2008, 09:23 PM) *
don't think he ever was....there was a fake "pro-gun" group that claimed he was a supporter of 2nd A.

sure wish we had some other choices in this race.......i like some of each of their ideas, i hate some of each of their ideas.....i just don't want to vote for either....


Then don't.....
moxie1c
At about 10:09 10:10 Obama said that "rights" would be up for review, like the first amendment and other constitutional rights...I wish I had it word for word but my jaw dropped when I heard it.
Vultite
how is Biden's health not coming into play here like McCain's is? Biden has had 2 BRAIN Aneurysm repairs, pretty serious stuff compared to a couple of skin cancer spots
RangerM9
QUOTE (moxie1c @ Oct 15 2008, 10:17 PM) *
At about 10:09 10:10 Obama said that "rights" would be up for review, like the first amendment and other constitutional rights...I wish I had it word for word but my jaw dropped when I heard it.



Heard something like that as well......NOT comforting!
evildog69
QUOTE (RangerM9 @ Oct 15 2008, 09:23 PM) *
don't think he ever was....there was a fake "pro-gun" group that claimed he was a supporter of 2nd A.

sure wish we had some other choices in this race.......i like some of each of their ideas, i hate some of each of their ideas.....i just don't want to vote for either....



If you don't make the obvious choice in voting you may not have the freedom to next time? May sound extreme but after last nights debate it is clear he is hiding another mission.
VanKiller
I've heard several people state " I'm just voting against Obama".......................I guess we need to take the votes any way we can get them..............




QUOTE (RangerM9 @ Oct 15 2008, 10:23 PM) *
don't think he ever was....there was a fake "pro-gun" group that claimed he was a supporter of 2nd A.

sure wish we had some other choices in this race.......i like some of each of their ideas, i hate some of each of their ideas.....i just don't want to vote for either....
hogdog
QUOTE (Vultite @ Oct 15 2008, 10:58 PM) *
how is Biden's health not coming into play here like McCain's is? Biden has had 2 BRAIN Aneurysm repairs, pretty serious stuff compared to a couple of skin cancer spots


Liberals don't hold brain damage against other liberals.

Seriously though, if Obama is elected president; the democrats maintain, or expand, their control of congress; and Obama appoints even just one additional Supreme Court justice, we're in for a bad time.
bigj480
QUOTE (moxie1c @ Oct 15 2008, 10:17 PM) *
At about 10:09 10:10 Obama said that "rights" would be up for review, like the first amendment and other constitutional rights...I wish I had it word for word but my jaw dropped when I heard it.


Here it is word for word, but it says the exact opposite of what you claim:
"But what ultimately I believe is that women in consultation with their families, their doctors, their religious advisers, are in the best position to make this decision. And I think that the Constitution has a right to privacy in it that shouldn't be subject to state referendum, any more than our First Amendment rights are subject to state referendum, any more than many of the other rights that we have should be subject to popular vote."

What about the 2A?

Although I don't agree with his health care plan, it was good to see that participation was optional and you can keep your (untaxed) employer supplied health care plan. He also said that they would try to lower your premium, but I don't know how they plan to achieve that. He said that people would have the option to BUY INTO the "same kind of federal pool" that they enjoy, I hope this means that tax payers will not foot the bill. Overall, it sounded better than the plan I assumed he was pushing, one of giveaways and tax burdens. However, I am skeptical that is will be set up in a way that that makes people pay for their own heath care and I do believe tax payers will end up paying some of the cost, that would be unacceptable. He also said that he would negotiate with pharmaceutical companies for lower costs, having a large pool of people gives them a chance to force companies to compete. He stated that this plan you cost some money upfront but pointed out that we are already picking up the escalating tab for the uninsured, and he is correct. So allowing those who are uninsured to pay for their own health care at a lower cost, IF that is how it is implemented, would help.

McCain plans on taxing my employer provided health care, which is counter productive and not in line with conservative values. He also said that we need to put medical records online(questionable), provide physical fitness and nutritional programs in schools(already done), "have" employers reward employees who join health clubs and practice wellness and fitness(useless) and give every American family a $5,000 refundable tax credit. The tax credit sounds nice, but I don't know if it will have much effect on health care, especially when this is for a whole family. McCain claims that Obama's plan is to set up health care bureaucracies, take over the health care of America through a single payer system, like Canada and England. He also stated that it would punish small businesses. Obama stated that there would be exemptions for small businesses and that "we'll" give them a 50 percent credit to help them them provide health care for their employees.

I think Obama did well in this debate and McCain looked kind of lame. I'm still not voting for either. Flame suit on.
G O B
If you believe a word of EITHER candidates health care proposals will ever see the light of day, I would like to talk to you about this nice bridge....

The choice is between a partisan political hack who totes a left wing agenda, and a genuine hero, who votes what he thinks is right, not "the party line".
bigj480
QUOTE (G O B @ Oct 16 2008, 05:31 PM) *
If you believe a word of EITHER candidates health care proposals will ever see the light of day, I would like to talk to you about this nice bridge....

The choice is between a partisan political hack who totes a left wing agenda, and a genuine hero, who votes what he thinks is right, not "the party line".


I don't, that's why I'm not voting for either of them. McCain is a genuine military hero who is a neo-con and would make a bad president. He has good intentions but bad ideas, IMO. Obama is the most liberal presidential candidate to date and he doesn't support the RKBA. The two evils have gown too evil to get my vote.
termite
I caught the 1994 thing and my wife asked me what it was about. I told her that it was about all the damn rubber band guns that I have that he wants to take away, because I might shoot my eye out with one. I'm sorry, no wait a minute, no I'm not, but I can not and will not vote for him or Biden, I want to stay free and not have the gubermunt "taking care of me" because they think I'm too stupid to do it on my own. And his BS about the $250K a year will not hurt small businesses, BULLSHIT.Look up the federal govs definition of a small business. All of us will be taking it up the ass in taxes, and the $3k tax break for hiring is a fricking joke, do you actually think I'm going to spend $50-75k a year to hire and train someone to get $3K from the gov for 2 years, and be forced to provide all the benefits that he will make me give to them. This goofball thinks that everybody is dumb and can't wipe their ass without the feds. I'd rather close my doors and go broke before I let the feds tell me how to run my business. I started it, I built it up, I will not let him tell me that he wants to "spred my wealth around". I'm the one who sweated my ass off and worked 16-18-20 hour days to make it go, not him. I never dreamed that I'd see socialisim here, but it's coming, and sooner than we think.
zone1935
If we get a Dem congress and pres. then ALL semiautomatic magzine fed rifles are GONE!!!! At least new manufacture of them. He has said as much many times on the campain trail. Yes, he toned it down slightly in the Feild and Stream article. They probably won't go after owner's guns this time, but it is only a matter of time. I wonder why the commie party of the U.S. is beside themselves stating that "their time is now." Seriously, without the 2nd, how in the world can anyone expect to keep the other nine.
bigj480
QUOTE (termite @ Oct 16 2008, 07:23 PM) *
I caught the 1994 thing and my wife asked me what it was about. I told her that it was about all the damn rubber band guns that I have that he wants to take away, because I might shoot my eye out with one. I'm sorry, no wait a minute, no I'm not, but I can not and will not vote for him or Biden, I want to stay free and not have the gubermunt "taking care of me" because they think I'm too stupid to do it on my own. And his BS about the $250K a year will not hurt small businesses, BULLSHIT.Look up the federal govs definition of a small business. All of us will be taking it up the ass in taxes, and the $3k tax break for hiring is a fricking joke, do you actually think I'm going to spend $50-75k a year to hire and train someone to get $3K from the gov for 2 years, and be forced to provide all the benefits that he will make me give to them. This goofball thinks that everybody is dumb and can't wipe their ass without the feds. I'd rather close my doors and go broke before I let the feds tell me how to run my business. I started it, I built it up, I will not let him tell me that he wants to "spred my wealth around". I'm the one who sweated my ass off and worked 16-18-20 hour days to make it go, not him. I never dreamed that I'd see socialisim here, but it's coming, and sooner than we think.


+1, the definition of "small business" varies by industry, right?
MD_Willington
Neo-Com VS Neo-Con

Tough choices this time around...
rodan
The problem is Obama will put a lefty judge on the supreme court. If you do not vote, it's a vote for Obama. Please at least vote against Obama!
waltham_41
QUOTE (rodan @ Oct 17 2008, 02:01 PM) *
The problem is Obama will put a lefty judge on the supreme court. If you do not vote, it's a vote for Obama. Please at least vote against Obama!



+100000
bigj480
QUOTE (MD_Willington @ Oct 17 2008, 01:42 PM) *
Neo-Com VS Neo-Con

Tough choices this time around...


No it's not, vote 3rd party. I refuse to put my stamp of approval on either of them

.
Will
QUOTE (bigj480 @ Oct 17 2008, 09:26 PM) *
No it's not, vote 3rd party. I refuse to put my stamp of approval on either of them

.


Voting 3rd party in this election is throwing your vote away and could give the election to Obama.
If that happens, kiss your gun rights goodbye.
And don't say you weren't warned..............................












BarakObama
Yes, please vote for me, I will certainly protect your 2nd Amendment rights. I do understand that some of you may simply choose to vote for someone else.

To that end, please allow me to recommend Ralph Nader or Ron Paul. They are both wonderful alternatives, and no, it will not be a wasted vote.

B.
bigj480
QUOTE (Will @ Oct 17 2008, 09:55 PM) *
QUOTE (bigj480 @ Oct 17 2008, 09:26 PM) *
No it's not, vote 3rd party. I refuse to put my stamp of approval on either of them

.


Voting 3rd party in this election is throwing your vote away and could give the election to Obama.
If that happens, kiss your gun rights goodbye.
And don't say you weren't warned..............................


I'm sorry, but you're wrong. I'll vote for who is best for the country, not who is second worst. The idea of voting for the lesser of two evils is what got us here. McCain is on the wrong path and a vote for him is a vote for the GOP to go down that path for at least the next 8 years. I want the old GOP back. We will always be told that voting third party is a waste and to vote for the next neo-con because THIS time it's real important, ensuring more of the same for generations to come. What's real important is to get rid of the run-of-the-mill, self-interested, unprincipled, sell out politicians. That describes the two parties, they have been corrupted beyond recognition. Time for a breath of fresh air.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.” - John Quincy Adams
Will
QUOTE (BarakObama @ Oct 17 2008, 10:14 PM) *
Yes, please vote for me, I will certainly protect your 2nd Amendment rights. I do understand that some of you may simply choose to vote for someone else.

To that end, please allow me to recommend Ralph Nader or Ron Paul. They are both wonderful alternatives, and no, it will not be a wasted vote.

B.




F*cking troll...................





bigj480
QUOTE (BarakObama @ Oct 17 2008, 10:14 PM) *
Yes, please vote for me, I will certainly protect your 2nd Amendment rights. I do understand that some of you may simply choose to vote for someone else.

To that end, please allow me to recommend Ralph Nader or Ron Paul. They are both wonderful alternatives, and no, it will not be a wasted vote.

B.


OMG! ohmy.gif Ban this guy! LOL Your a brave man, BarakObama. Wait, what did I just say? Ron Paul is no longer running, Nader is and idiot. Baldwin or Barr where the only options I considered, I settled on Baldwin.
Will
QUOTE (bigj480 @ Oct 17 2008, 10:18 PM) *
OMG! ohmy.gif Ban this guy! LOL Your a brave man, BarakObama. Wait, what did I just say? Ron Paul is no longer running, Nader is and idiot. Baldwin or Barr where the only options I considered, I settled on Baldwin.



Daniel or Billy?




bigj480
QUOTE (Will @ Oct 17 2008, 10:21 PM) *
QUOTE (bigj480 @ Oct 17 2008, 10:18 PM) *
OMG! ohmy.gif Ban this guy! LOL Your a brave man, BarakObama. Wait, what did I just say? Ron Paul is no longer running, Nader is and idiot. Baldwin or Barr where the only options I considered, I settled on Baldwin.



Daniel or Billy?


smile.gif I know he's not going to win, thanks for rubbing it in. Good luck with your neo-con candidate that is destined for failure. A vote for anyone but Obama is a wasted vote, we all know that he is going to win. Lesser of one evil? Wait....naaaa.gif
zone1935
Someone should ask Obama if he is so concerned about small business. Why would he insist on putting countless workers on unployment by banning the products they make? If only these guys would go after illegal drugs with half the zeal that they go after our rights. I'm pretty sure the bad guys in the poppy and cocaine feilds would get really scared.
zone1935
QUOTE (bigj480 @ Oct 17 2008, 10:36 PM) *
A vote for anyone but Obama is a wasted vote, we all know that he is going to win. Lesser of one evil? Wait....naaaa.gif



Just ask ACORN. It's in the bag!
kg4chm
I voted thursday. I voted McCain although I dont really like him. BUT.........Im sure Barr doesnt stand a chance so I couldnt bring myself to vote for him. I wanted to do what I could to help keep Osama from being our next prez. Even though Im not crazy about McCain I feel his is far better than Osama.
dvdivx
QUOTE (MD_Willington @ Oct 17 2008, 11:42 AM) *
Neo-Com VS Neo-Con

Tough choices this time around...


I think the choice is very easy. Obama is so far to the left he would be better suited for the Premier of the Soviet Union than the Presidency. The only real option this time is to vote McCain. It's not just the 2nd amendment that will go away they will all become a "living document" and become unrecognizable. Voting for either a third party or not voting just gives Obama victory. He should scare you enough to drag your neighbors, friends or anyone else you know to vote for McCain also.
Racegal20
I'm not going to debate anymore about the elections this year. Vote how you feel you must. This country is pretty much divided 50/50. Nobama is getting the left's 50 and the right will be divided and lose. Nobama will be our next president and we're just going to have to live with it and pray he does as little damage as possible. What we all need to do is write the RNC and tell them we are sick and tire of a few states deciding who our future candidate will be. Most people I know are voting for McCain knowing it will leave a bad taste in their mouth on the 4th but better that than a bad president for at least 4 years.
bigj480
QUOTE (Racegal20 @ Oct 18 2008, 01:33 PM) *
I'm not going to debate anymore about the elections this year. Vote how you feel you must. This country is pretty much divided 50/50. Nobama is getting the left's 50 and the right will be divided and lose. Nobama will be our next president and we're just going to have to live with it and pray he does as little damage as possible. What we all need to do is write the RNC and tell them we are sick and tire of a few states deciding who our future candidate will be. Most people I know are voting for McCain knowing it will leave a bad taste in their mouth on the 4th but better that than a bad president for at least 4 years.


I agree, McCain will not be getting all of the conservative votes, because he isn't a conservative. People who are set in their principles and refuse to compromise much or let fear shake them, have had to find conservative candidates in other parties. Politicians use crises to push bad ideas down our throats, like the bailout, and this is no different. McCain sucks so they use an Obama presidency to scare people into voting for McCain. In both cases, they only make things worse, IMO. What the GOP needed to do was put forth a cohesive conservative plan, what they did was preach hate instead of hope and alienate a lot of people. As someone who was a Ron Paul supporter, I have seen the hatred that party loyalists have towards someone who does not put party first, it hurt the GOP and in the end they deserve part of the blame. Most of the blame should be put on the party for purposely marginalizing the viewpoints of many conservatives and those who voted for McCain in the primaries, but ultimately people make their own choice. I'm afraid that they GOP has permanently lost some supporters unless they change fast. Even worse that that is the fact that Obama will almost certainly nominate at least one supreme court judge, as much as this has been stressed by McCain supporters, it's importance can't be stressed enough. Especially as many pro-2A groups are filing lawsuits to force the SCOTUS to clarify what they think the limits of the 2A are.
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