I sent this thing off back in the spring... Anyway BATFE tech branch gave this back in June and just got around to making a set of them... Just digging for thoughts on the item..

The stock allows the rifle to slide back and forth while still keeping it tight to your shoulder.. So you have a lot more control.

Your thoughts please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcnwGpLZnL0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmQK360y9QI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkhpJZVL0Uk

So you sent of to Uncle B. and got his okay on it?? AWESOME!

Acer

no way in cold hell you'd catch me putting one my weapon. yeah the stock isn't illegal, and no it doesn't make the weapon FA; but there have been entirely to many stories of BATF agents seizing weapons for "accidental" bump firings and never returning them. thanks, but not worth my weapon.

Sure can tell the difference between a rifle with and without a Flash Suppressor/Compensator.

Would get really expensive in Ammo!!

Seconded.

I've heard of people getting different answers of the same questions depending on the time of day, I wouldn't want to take such risks.

Yeah it can get expensive quickly. We had a good time with it shooting a deerish sized log at 40 yards or so, chewed it up pretty bad.

I will come right out and say that it's not full auto, it takes a smooth hand and clear head to dump a mag. You tend to pull the trigger when stressed (like when a camera is pointed at you) and that's all wrong, what you do is push the gun away and make a hook with your trigger finger.

The flash is more of an ammo issue than the flash hider, the WASR-2 (5.45x39) is running cheap surplus and the saiga x39 is using silver bear. To me it's a good reason to buy good ammo and test your HD gun at night... Because the WASR-2 is almost blinding even with some daylight.



They had it for a long time and their letter very clearly states that it's not a MG and they describe using it and how it works and that it is not an MG because you are pulling/pushing the trigger (trigger being the front end of the gun).

good idea, not sure on what the local LE's would think about it,considering a florida boy was busted on the ruger 10/22 deal and all his customers were paid a visit, great idea tho, i will give you that, if the ATF weren't such hard asses i'd be all over it, but for now, i'll stick to my technique for shoulder bump firing.

Man nice to have feedback so quick.

I would also like to point out that Bill Akins still has his stocks just no springs, the return spring of his design is what caused the problem. His design was totally awesome... But it was also a machine gun, many many people had commented as much before the ATF stopped things... Another thing that did not help him is that he did not send his final product in after he switched from the SKS to 10/22.

This stock only really allows you to hold the stock to your shoulder tightly, it does bring your groups down onto the berm, and the sliding stock also reduces felt recoil a little bit.

The only way I'd do it is if I had a copy of the ATF's letter with the weapon at all times. That way, if anyone questions you, you can pull out your papers and say, "It's approved. Read it." Treat it the same way as the papers for a full-auto weapon: it MUST accompany the weapon at all times.

+1 if you had legal papers, it would sell

Kinda like this (it's a two page letter, the first is the law background and the item description)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/csspecs/Atfletter.jpg

I have two copies that I carry one in the stock (if need be I can take it apart and show) and another in the rifle case.. The original stays safely in an undisclosed location

I have yet to show the letter to anyone, once they see the stock it's kinda clear whats going on.

If you market it, just be certain to include a certified copy of the letter with every stock.

Do you plan on selling these? Do you have any pictures?

Yeah I do plan on selling them, not quite sure how I'm going to go about doing that. I will have pictures up before I start selling them... Just don't have everything (like paint) worked out yet, the ones I built at first had rattle can paint on them, I don't know if that would be acceptable or not..

Me and my brother are building a set of 10 to see how long it takes, it's all steel and a lot of welding and cutting so it's been a bit over 24 working hours (12 each) so far and their not quite done yet.. They are very solid and I would dare say that you could beat a yak to death with no ill effects on the stock, lets just say I would not want to carry one for a week either (heavy).

Any ideas are appreciated.

My recommendation would be to make them out of polymer or aluminum. It accepts any of the standard pistol grips?

The guys nailed it. Anything borderline with the ATF needs to be sold with a copy of a letter from the ATF that you are SURE is legit and tells the entire story and mentions the stock by name and all that business. A lot of people will not buy it without that letter. Having that letter would save people a whole lot of time and agony when somebody wants to hassle them.

Good luck with it. Maybe find somebody you can trust not to steal the design that can help you out cutting down on manufacturing cost/time, maybe offer up a different material to use or something.

patent it

Wow. Congrats on getting creative, and making things happen. Also on taking the right pathways to make sure you don't get in trouble with it.

It's not my cup of tea, but I'm sure it would sell pretty good.

Good luck with your venture.

You might want to familiarize yourself with the story of the Akins Accelerator. The pertinent facts can be found in this complaint filed by the inventor against the BATFE and the FedGov:

http://www.georgiapacking.org/docs/akins/C...th_exhibits.pdf

Basically, the BATFE told him his stock design (not to different from yours) was not a machine gun, so he went into full production and began shipping units to customers. Later, the BATFE decide that they now figured it IS a machine gun and he has to stop production and all his customers now have illegal machine guns on their hands.

If you go up a couple posts, csspecs talks of the Akins and it's situation with the BATFE.

I don't know much about the Akins Accelerator's design, but if csspecs design is somewhat similar, it may actually be a good thing. Then the BATFE will have less on their side as far as turning around the "go ahead, it's legit in our books" decision. Being that they already dealt with this once before, and yet still said this new design is good to go.

This is the .gov we're talking about, so anything's possible, but I don't think they would want to go through another "hey, let's give this guy permission to go ahead with this device..........time goes by.........on second thought, it's illegal Turn your shit in" situation.

My design has a little more to do with the awsims than the akins accelerator. But it's still quite a bit different than both of them, both of those designs involve return springs driving the guns trigger back into your finger or into a stop of some type.

This is still bump firing, the thing is that you get to hold the pistol grip and butt stock normally, and that makes a world of difference. You can use your sights and aim normally. Still not an auto but hopefully will make bump firing more accepted and less hazardous.

(Edit: I'm the one using the gun with the comp, doing three or four round bursts)

I'm sure there is some adolescent, redneck market for something like that, but it seems like a major waste of ammo to me. In todays political climate, do we really need another device to further fan the flames of a future gun ban?

+1 I'll take one as soon as they are available and a letter saying "mother may i" from the ATF.

the bump firing letter from the ATF, this is from the guy who does the poormansmachinegun thingie with the rubber band.

Yeah that looks like what my letter says on page one. The stock still does not do anything to the trigger.. Just gives you something to hold.

OK I have pictures of the completed stocks... We made 10 total, two rifle length and 8 carbine (Carbine are an inch shorter).

I have been asked pricing... We are going to try at 165.00 shipped to the lower states. I'm still working on a list of what states are a no go, I'm going to say for now that it may be considered a collapsible stock and go from there, it really gets longer not shorter when fired so it's hard to say if thats true or not...

Working on getting a website up in the next month if things go well.

I'm going to put an ad on the Classifieds section for now.

So for right now I'm not shipping to
New York
California
Connecticut
Or Chicago, IL