[Stock S12 Forend Alteration For Rails]

I kinda figured it'd be pretty easy to do. Thanks for the feedback.

i just pulled the forend off drilled the holes from outside then went inside and removed the rib inside back from the holes enough to allow the round bolster nuts to sit flush below the rib and done works good

[Stock S12 Forend Alteration For Rails]

Yo,

I have a new S12 and I like the idea of adding a modest picatinny to the bottom of the stock forend with which to attach a vertical grip. I am hesitant to tear into it without some feedback from some of you experienced hacks out there. Since I'm a rookie with the S12, can you tell me from personal experience if you prefer a vertical grip for the shotgun or is the traditional way of holding it more comfortable? Also, any actual cutting, measuring, drilling, grinding, milling, etc. tips would be welcome.

[Why should you convert your Saiga?]

Thank you so much for the positive info... I'm convinced. Now, is there any good spot out there where someone has listed concensus choices for (current/new) FCG hardware? Also, as an example, I see Danzig has several of each kind of gizmo to choose from. How do I know what of a particular part to get? I hear things about 25% reduced springs and 1 or 2 blah blah trigger groups. I don't have a clue what to get and what works best. Any help? Thanks in advance.

Charlie

Intro:

Your Saiga is made in the same plant, by the same people, and on the same lines as all Russian AK's. The 74's, the AKMs, the 100 series, etc, are all made at Izhmash, the Russian factory where Mr. Kalashnikov still works. Yes, the man that designed the AK-47 still works there. Now look on the side of your gun, it says Izhmash on it and has their arrow in a triangle symbol. Now is when you can crack an evil smile.

 

Importation/Legality:

In order to be imported into this country, it had to be neutered. It had to be in "sporting configuration" to be importable by law. That is why all the cool guns are made in the United States, or imported in a neutered form, or totally unavailable. The Saiga is only imported at this time, so they all start out with a conventional stock manner, which is NOT the way they are supposed to be configured. They put a plate over the trigger hole on the bottom of your receiver. Underneath that plate is the trigger, which has the lever part where your finger would go removed, it is just the mechanical portion of it left behind. So your trigger/sear, disconnector, and hammer are all in place where they should be. The problem is that the trigger you actually pull is connected to a bar... and that bar pulls the actual trigger. Ridiculous? OH YEAH. But it is how they have to import them thanks to our laws. It is 100% legal by Federal law to "convert" your Saiga to regular AK setup, which is quite easy to do. It is just removal of two pins, and your fire control group, which just slide in and out. The pins you need to remove are rivets though, so you have to grind their ends off to push them out. Then you need to get a trigger guard, either screw on or weld on, and put on your new furniture.

 

Some states, I know Connecticut and New York are in this group, still have elements of the 1994 gun ban in their state laws. They say that any semi auto magazine fed shotgun cannot have a pistol grip below the receiver of the gun. Ruins your plans I bet. Well it didn't ruin mine. You can put on a one piece skeleton stock or thumbhole stock to get around that and still get great ergonomics.

 

Once you do this, OR attach a magazine of over 5, at 10, or over 10 round capacity? edit this out later, you are putting your gun in a "non-sporting configuration". This means you have to comply with Federal law 922r. Yes, this means if you saw a gun store with a 12 round Surefire mag in their gun, they were breaking federal law. Seriously. Don't use it until you have the right American made parts in your gun, or you could go to jail. I'm not joking, and I am not mistaken.

 

922r:

This law states that you cannot have more than 10 imported parts within a list of parts that are important. Check this website for easy check on this:

922r worksheet: http://www.thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaVerifyCompliance

 

If you want to use higher capacity magazines on your Saiga shotgun, you have to replace other parts to make it legal by Federal law. Might as well convert, buddy. You're going to be replacing stuff anyway.

 

Ok, that's all well and good... but WHY SHOULD I CONVERT?

 

Upside:

~Removes complication from your fire control group.

~Improves every aspect of trigger pull. You get lighter pull, less friction, better feel, less slack, etc etc etc. Pulling a trigger rather than pulling a lever that tilts a bar that pulls the real trigger isn't the best setup.

~Puts the gun in the configuration that was intended.

~Improves ergonomics.

~Cuts the length of your gun by 4-5 inches. You also get to pick your Length of Pull by choosing from all the AK stocks in the world, which vary from American use (long) to Asian use (short).

~Puts the center of gravity closer to your body, making the gun more controllable.

~It will point better.

~It will aim faster.

~Recoil will be handled better.

~Some find a pistol grip makes getting back on target much easier and faster. I am one of those. So is every military on the planet.

~You get to use high capacity magazines such as the MD-20 20 round drum with no legality issues from the Federal government.

~If you do it yourself, you'll get some pride and a detailed knowledge of how everything works.

~You get in the secret club. We'll teach you the handshake later.

~And finally, chicks dig it.

 

 

Downside:

~The parts do cost money.

~The labor either costs money or your own time.

~There are only two downsides.

~Stop looking for a downside.

[Conversion Benefits?]

Thanks for not crushing me under a pile of "My God, man, we've been answering this same question for 42 years now, read the F'ing threads." I appreciate your referral to the aforementioned threads and such. Peace Out.

Read this thread, this board, and this board.

 

"Converting" your Saiga rifle is about more than just looks. You're restoring it to the configuration it was meant to have, that of an AK-103, (minus selective fire, of course). The rifle was meant to be built that way, our idiotic, unconstitutional "gun control" laws are what force the Russians to neuter Saiga rifles to the "sporter" configuration you have now.

 

Once you convert your rifle back to the way it's supposed to be, it's better in every way, from a vastly improved and simplified trigger group, to a shorter overall weapon, to greater ergonomics and handling.

 

Imo there is no debate. Convert that rifle. It's not difficult or expensive to do and you'll be very happy once you do.

[Conversion Benefits?]

Thank you, sir, the pics and the parts list were very welcome additions to my info gathering. Your gun looks great.

Charlie

I recently converted, using info in here and some videos on the net. The balance of the pistol grip make weapon easier to handle and the trigger is night and day in feel while firing. It is worth the investment. This is if want the looks and firing benefits. I was worried about doing it myself, but it actually turned out to be very easy. Here is the link to the post I made after converted. I do list the parts and vendors so, maybe that will help you out. If you want exact part #'s let me know.

 

-Bryan

[Conversion Benefits?]

As I said, I'm a newbie, so I was probably wrong about the exposure of any drilled or ground material. I assume from your post that any changes, provided they were performed carefully, will leave the rifle without the need for paint or other coverups following conversion, right?

Hi Everyone,

I'm a newby so please be kind. I just received my new Saiga 7.62X39 and I'm considering the conversion. I have seen the sites available with step by step instructions and, as a maintenance dude by trade, believe I could do the conversion without any major problems. My questions are-

 

1) I have heard many of you talk about the benefits of the change. Are they simply the "cool-factor" look, the feel after the geometry changes, or is the function somehow better? I understand you must have a slight difference when you alter the trigger linkage by moving everything forward... does that make a big difference. Also, with an adjustable stock (Tapco AR style) you can alter the shoulder to trigger distance, so I don't get the benefit there. I agree the conversions look better, but I'm not sold on the benefits since I haven't held or shot one after conversion. Please enlighten me if you wouldn't mind.

This question has been asked twice, since Sunday. Please take some time to read the stickies and current popular threads.

2) If I should decide to convert, can someone make a recommendation as to a good, smooth trigger group to get and also what kind of paint or covering to use if bare metal is left exposed after grinding or drilling?

If you think about it, you won't be grinding or drilling on any permanent part of your rifle.

 

I'm scared to think where you got the idea that "grinding and drilling" on the "good" parts of the Saiga was necessary. . .

[Conversion Benefits?]

Hi Everyone,

I'm a newby so please be kind. I just received my new Saiga 7.62X39 and I'm considering the conversion. I have seen the sites available with step by step instructions and, as a maintenance dude by trade, believe I could do the conversion without any major problems. My questions are-

 

1) I have heard many of you talk about the benefits of the change. Are they simply the "cool-factor" look, the feel after the geometry changes, or is the function somehow better? I understand you must have a slight difference when you alter the trigger linkage by moving everything forward... does that make a big difference. Also, with an adjustable stock (Tapco AR style) you can alter the shoulder to trigger distance, so I don't get the benefit there. I agree the conversions look better, but I'm not sold on the benefits since I haven't held or shot one after conversion. Please enlighten me if you wouldn't mind.

 

2) If I should decide to convert, can someone make a recommendation as to a good, smooth trigger group to get and also what kind of paint or covering to use if bare metal is left exposed after grinding or drilling?

 

Thanks a ton!